Corona Renderer Forum

General Category => General CG discussion => Topic started by: K u r a i on 2016-03-20, 10:17:37

Title: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-20, 10:17:37
I would appreciate any info on what is the going rate for a 3D render and what factors govern the price.

I became an interior & architecture designer after many years working as an illustrator. I have gone full circle
back to presentation but use software instead of traditional pen & ink and marker pens.

Very interested to here how others charge. How to combat against clients that change their minds alot and the
timescale you would allow for undertaking a presentation project.

I understand this can be a sensitive subject and people don't normally give info about how much they charge.

Just to put you in the picture.... I am talking about commercial projects for large building projects like Football Stadiums
and recreational clubs and office building blocks.... as well as smaller residential projects.





Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Nejc Kilar on 2016-03-20, 12:52:13
This is the question that everyone wants an answer to but at the same time it is one of those things where  its hard to depict a universal response.

There are many ways to come up with how much you want to / need to charge in order to grow your business and not "slave away" at 5$ per hour. But you see, that right there is just one of the problems you will encounter. For me, working at 5$ per hour would be financial suicide and I'd probably get an equal amount selling ice cream down on the street with the difference being I can do that for 8 hours a day while freelancing is not that stable - at least not all the time - which means selling ice cream would be financially more beneficial for me. Then again, 5$ might be ok for someone operating from Asia where their living costs are lower which means they can afford lower salaries. The same goes for US <-> Europe.

I think for starters you need to figure out how much you need to survive based on the number of projects you are getting or are hoping you will be getting (be realistic). A link like this http://jironomo.com/architectural-visualisation-blog/2010/04/how-much-does-a-3d-rendering-cost/ and this https://motivapp.com/freelance-hourly-rate-calculator MIGHT be helpful.

Of course, the other thing is learning about the prices people usually put up which is something you are trying to get an answer for right now. Well, it is hard to say and it differs from project to project but me personally, I've done projects where a value for an image was as little as 200EUR and as much as 3000$. It is of course different if you are working in a studio vs being freelance but you get the idea. There is an interesting thread going over at CG Architect about prices, might be worth a look ;)

The best thing would be for us to post images and specify what the price what but even that might be a little off - sometimes clients give you 3D files, sometimes you get DWGs and sometimes you get concepts - at least for me that makes a difference when giving out a quote on a project.

Unfortunately I don't have much freelance experience doing stadiums so I have nothing but theory to share.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: philippelamoureux on 2016-03-20, 13:44:48
20 pages of answers! http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html (http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html)
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-20, 13:45:41
Very much appreciate your reply....and I understand it is an open-ended question.

I once asked another CG artist this question (who was German) and he said he charges 600euro for the first image and 150euro for each image thereafter.
Must add that I am from the UK but live in Egypt. People pay much less for this type of work.

I will try the links you suggested.

Thanks.


Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-20, 13:47:09
20 pages of answers! http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html (http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html)

Wow. many thanks.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: johan belmans on 2016-03-20, 14:14:08
FYI:
Overhere everything is based on hours. We estimated how much we need for a specific project and multiply this with a specific price/hour. We try to track every working hour, so at the end of every year we now exactly how much a working hour cost. This we multiply with a factor to "try" to make some profit.
Of course this method could be difficult in your first year. Further more we try to be competitive with our competitors.

It is not an easy exercise and it never will be.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-20, 17:50:46
Craftsmen also use an hourly rates when making something. They know it will take (x) amount of time to make a chair.
But, here, an hourly rate would scare people. But, a daily rate feels abit better.

When I do an interior design job I make a 12 week contract. One year later and can still find myself working on the same project which makes me resent the job and become upset with myself for not having a 'get out of jail card' factored in the contract. There is always a fear though of losing a potential job due to being too expensive or being too difficult with the boundaries. So, I sometimes sell myself short just to keep the wheels turning.









Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Alex Abarca on 2016-03-21, 08:43:14
nkilar, the hourly calculator is surprisingly accurate.

Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2016-03-21, 13:07:43
I make a 12 week contract. One year later and can still find myself working...

I think this applies to everyone. 50perc. of our projects go this way. It doesn't matter what you have in contract, my contract is 12 pages long, and brutal yet....stuff happens :- ).

It can be depressing at times, because really, finding motivation to keep looking at the same project for so long... but to get through this, you simply have to make it your business, we're selling service after all.

It's really hard, but it comes down to strong, assertive communication and stating to your client, when you're going over agreed scope, and ask for further compensation. It's awkward and I often suck at it myself, but this is what it is.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Ondra on 2016-03-21, 13:49:37
Obligatory "I'm just gonna leave this here"
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-21, 16:54:17
In the UK things are very straightforward. But, here in Egypt things are very different. Whoever pays you, owns you. And you have to kiss ass and do what master bids. It's also hard to get paid on time. The positives though is the pace of life is slower and less demanding. Nobody works in the summer months... they are all on the beach.

Also, I have a huge rebellious nature. Which often gets me in trouble. Cannot help myself :)

The architect Frank Ghery once said: "I don’t know why people hire architects and then tell them what to do".



 
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Christa Noel on 2016-03-22, 05:19:58
i never got a chance for kind of that big stadium project. but
In the UK things are very straightforward. But, here in Egypt things are very different. Whoever pays you, owns you. And you have to kiss ass and do what master bids. It's also hard to get paid on time.
it isn't that different here in my country, clients characters are all the same. once i almost punch badclients f***ng mouth right after said some words that explaining just like you said "i pay you, i own you"... I'm still learning how to having a nice good agreement that makes freelancer and clients finish the project in real peace before start making a project.
20 pages of answers! http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html (http://forums.cgarchitect.com/73375-freelance-rendering-how-much-charge.html)
good good points, i knew it but i cant remember where it was
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-03-22, 06:42:09
Projects are like marriages... they start well, with good intentions.... but (can sometimes) have miserable endings.
Every now and then you have a project that restores your faith in people and you go to sleep with a cute smile on your face.... feeling you
are sooooo lucky to be a freelance designer..... and dream of father Xmas, fairies, butterflies and stuff :)))

What I have found though, if you are honest and show you care.... clients sometimes come back. I have had horrendous fallouts
with people.... only to find they return years later to give you another project.... cos they trust you. Better the devil you know.

Leonardo Da Vinci only did about 7 paintings in his life. He really detested working for people.....he said...."First the clients shower you with
praise, then they show their indignation and finally their utter contempt".

Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Nejc Kilar on 2016-03-22, 10:06:55
nkilar, the hourly calculator is surprisingly accurate.

Glad you found it useful. Honestly, and I probably should have stated this in my original post, I never filled it out myself - I just came across people that really found it useful :)
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Alex Abarca on 2016-03-22, 17:05:36
I think we all be cool with our clients and make sure our clients get the best. For the most part Most illustrators have a sense of perfection in our minds when trying to achieve a piece. But you have to be careful and pay close attetion when added scope is piled on. Make sure make the client aware of even if its not impactful on your time spent, when other changes keep coming it can soon add up and may impede your delivery time. At this time just casually ask for more compensation.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: philippelamoureux on 2016-04-19, 05:32:21
I split my costs in 2 categories.

Modelling cost
+
rendering cost (image and/or movie)

Just got a new contract for a project in Dubai. They only want 1 image (more industrial design than architecture this time) so that's 1650$ for the image and 1000$ for the modeling.
It's a bummer to model everything for one image only tho :-(
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: Christa Noel on 2016-04-19, 05:55:57
hi philippelamoureux,
It's a bummer to model everything for one image only tho :-(
I see, that's hurt enough. I never got a job with one image only like you did, then now i'll think about it, thanx ;)

I split my costs in 2 categories.

Modelling cost
+
rendering cost (image and/or movie)

Just got a new contract for a project in Dubai. They only want 1 image (more industrial design than architecture this time) so that's 1650$ for the image and 1000$ for the modeling.
that's quite high number I think, but may i know, Is that one image project for an interior residence or commercial like restaurant? how large the area?
thanx :)
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: K u r a i on 2016-04-20, 00:41:56
I split my costs in 2 categories.

Modelling cost
+
rendering cost (image and/or movie)

Just got a new contract for a project in Dubai. They only want 1 image (more industrial design than architecture this time) so that's 1650$ for the image and 1000$ for the modeling.
It's a bummer to model everything for one image only tho :-(

Splitting the cost into two sections is a very good idea.
I will adopt this strategy. It makes sense.
Title: Re: How much to charge for commercial rendering service?
Post by: philippelamoureux on 2016-04-20, 09:51:03
hi philippelamoureux,
It's a bummer to model everything for one image only tho :-(
I see, that's hurt enough. I never got a job with one image only like you did, then now i'll think about it, thanx ;)

I split my costs in 2 categories.

Modelling cost
+
rendering cost (image and/or movie)

Just got a new contract for a project in Dubai. They only want 1 image (more industrial design than architecture this time) so that's 1650$ for the image and 1000$ for the modeling.
that's quite high number I think, but may i know, Is that one image project for an interior residence or commercial like restaurant? how large the area?
thanx :)

I said we ''got'' but it's still pending for approval but it's looking good I'd say. It's a bit high but you must consider that it's a bridge for a marina. I have to model the bridge in HQ, some docks, a beach, a floating restaurant and a hotel on the shore. That's a lot of modeling to only make 1 render. It's a close up on the bridge but I still need a good environment around it!