Corona Renderer Forum

General Category => General CG discussion => Hardware => Topic started by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 16:21:16

Title: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 16:21:16
I Noticed someone posted a benchmark today for the new 32 core amd ryzen threadripper 2990wx.
It had an x4 next to the cpu name. Is that using 4 of the processors? Or is it because there are 4 dies per processor?
The result was far from spectacular at 42 seconds. still WAY over the fastest xeon result but decent for a prosumer grade sku.
But still seeing that its double the core count of the previous 16 core threadripper at a decent clock speed its surprising that they only managed to shave off 15ish seconds.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: 3DsChobo on 2018-08-13, 16:47:15
It was tested using one threadripper at factory settings. So I guess the 4 stands for the dies within.
You can read the corresponding article here (they submitted the corona bench afterwards).
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-08/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-2950x-test/

The result is really good and can compete even with the Xeon 8180.
But the question is how the CPU will perforn on memory intense scenes, since the memory intertface has severe problems.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 18:19:34
It was tested using one threadripper at factory settings. So I guess the 4 stands for the dies within.
You can read the corresponding article here (they submitted the corona bench afterwards).
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-08/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-2950x-test/

The result is really good and can compete even with the Xeon 8180.
But the question is how the CPU will perforn on memory intense scenes, since the memory intertface has severe problems.

Its ppretty decent yeah im just surprised that it isnt quicker given i can hit 01:02 on my 16 core. granted at a higher clock speed. Its still pretty amazing though! Glad to see a drop in price of the 1950x too
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PROH on 2018-08-13, 19:07:49
There's already a new benchmark at 37sec. There's also a benchmark for the 2950x at 1:04:99.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-13, 20:15:08
PCWorld has a video review that shows Corona scaling almost linearly above the 1950x (assuming both are at stock speeds.)

Right around 7:40:


I'm on an overclocked 1950x now.  Just waiting for a few more reviews and benchmarks to trickle out before I upgrade.  Almost 2x the performance seems worth it...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 20:19:03
PCWorld has a video review that shows Corona scaling almost linearly above the 1950x (assuming both are at stock speeds.)

Right around 7:40:


I'm on an overclocked 1950x now.  Just waiting for a few more reviews and benchmarks to trickle out before I upgrade.  Almost 2x the performance seems worth it...

Im still running an old 8 core amd FX on my home pc but now 1950x is going to be cheaper i might invest in a new rig. Im super impressed by AMD though they have kind of cornered the market when it comes for bang for buck cpus. Would be interesting to see what people cansqueeze out of it and what the closest intel sku is in terms of speed vs price.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-13, 21:26:37
Im still running an old 8 core amd FX on my home pc but now 1950x is going to be cheaper i might invest in a new rig. Im super impressed by AMD though they have kind of cornered the market when it comes for bang for buck cpus. Would be interesting to see what people cansqueeze out of it and what the closest intel sku is in terms of speed vs price.

1950X has treated me amazingly well.  The only glitch I ran into was having to return some non-compatible memory.  Super picky CPU that way.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 21:28:24
Im still running an old 8 core amd FX on my home pc but now 1950x is going to be cheaper i might invest in a new rig. Im super impressed by AMD though they have kind of cornered the market when it comes for bang for buck cpus. Would be interesting to see what people cansqueeze out of it and what the closest intel sku is in terms of speed vs price.

1950X has treated me amazingly well.  The only glitch I ran into was having to return some non-compatible memory.  Super picky CPU that way.

Yeah i built 4 1950x machines for work and the part selection was a bit of a pain but i think the new ryzen 16 core in the v2 range might be a bit easier.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-13, 22:40:16
Im still running an old 8 core amd FX on my home pc but now 1950x is going to be cheaper i might invest in a new rig. Im super impressed by AMD though they have kind of cornered the market when it comes for bang for buck cpus. Would be interesting to see what people cansqueeze out of it and what the closest intel sku is in terms of speed vs price.

1950X has treated me amazingly well.  The only glitch I ran into was having to return some non-compatible memory.  Super picky CPU that way.

Yeah i built 4 1950x machines for work and the part selection was a bit of a pain but i think the new ryzen 16 core in the v2 range might be a bit easier.

I’m just hoping my Taichi has enough juice to let me overclock the 2990wx a little.  Planning to do a 1 for 1 swap after a bios update.  Not sure what I’ll do with my old 1950x...maybe build a new machine, except RAM is so expensive.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-13, 23:00:16
Im still running an old 8 core amd FX on my home pc but now 1950x is going to be cheaper i might invest in a new rig. Im super impressed by AMD though they have kind of cornered the market when it comes for bang for buck cpus. Would be interesting to see what people cansqueeze out of it and what the closest intel sku is in terms of speed vs price.

1950X has treated me amazingly well.  The only glitch I ran into was having to return some non-compatible memory.  Super picky CPU that way.

Yeah i built 4 1950x machines for work and the part selection was a bit of a pain but i think the new ryzen 16 core in the v2 range might be a bit easier.

I’m just hoping my Taichi has enough juice to let me overclock the 2990wx a little.  Planning to do a 1 for 1 swap after a bios update.  Not sure what I’ll do with my old 1950x...maybe build a new machine, except RAM is so expensive.

youd hope although ive heard people say its worrying the mobo manufacturers and might need extra cooling
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-08-14, 01:26:58
Interesting stuff going on here with Blender in Linux vs Windows comparisons:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=2990wx-linux-windows&num=4

Is the way windows is handling large core count CPU's whats crippling the performance or something else? I hear rumours that Windows' NUMA handling is abysmal. Across the board in any app tested on that site the Linux version seems to decimate the Windows variant...

Corona devs can you weigh in on this?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-08-14, 11:32:46
Interesting stuff going on here with Blender in Linux vs Windows comparisons:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=2990wx-linux-windows&num=4

Is the way windows is handling large core count CPU's whats crippling the performance or something else? I hear rumours that Windows' NUMA handling is abysmal. Across the board in any app tested on that site the Linux version seems to decimate the Windows variant...

Corona devs can you weigh in on this?

Could it be that blender on linux is more optimised/faster than blender for windows? It would be interesting to see these tests with like a current gen i7 to see if its a standard thing.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-17, 18:06:32
Interesting to see a 36 second benchmark pop up @ 4ghz.  That's almost perfect scaling.  I think mine at 3.9ghz was around a minute.  Tempting, if I just knew that the Taichi would support OCing to 3.9 or so...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-23, 13:00:06
Our 2990WX is home :- ) This will be Veronika's new workstation.

Parts: 2990WX + MSI MEG X399 Creation / Seasonic Prime 1300W / 64 GB @ 3000 MHZ / 1 TB 960 PRO as main drive / 2TB + 2TB 960 EVO as secondary drives for photography / Shit ton of Noctua Cromax finally in black :- ) / U14S TR4 cooler, until second revision of Enermax Liqtech 360 ( II version, with stupid RGB ) is out and was widely tested for longevity ) / Define R6 / nVidia RTX, not sure which one yet
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Adam on 2018-08-23, 13:33:45
Our 2990WX is home :- ) This will be Veronika's new workstation.

Parts: 2990WX + MSI MEG X399 Creation / Seasonic Prime 1300W / 64 GB @ 3000 MHZ / 1 TB 960 PRO as main drive / 2TB + 2TB 960 EVO as secondary drives for photography / Shit ton of Noctua Cromax finally in black :- ) / U14S TR4 cooler, until second revision of Enermax Liqtech 360 ( II version, with stupid RGB ) is out and was widely tested for longevity ) / Define R6 / nVidia RTX, not sure which one yet

Very cool! Can't wait to get mine :D
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-08-23, 16:30:18
Our 2990WX is home :- ) This will be Veronika's new workstation.

Parts: 2990WX + MSI MEG X399 Creation / Seasonic Prime 1300W / 64 GB @ 3000 MHZ / 1 TB 960 PRO as main drive / 2TB + 2TB 960 EVO as secondary drives for photography / Shit ton of Noctua Cromax finally in black :- ) / U14S TR4 cooler, until second revision of Enermax Liqtech 360 ( II version, with stupid RGB ) is out and was widely tested for longevity ) / Define R6 / nVidia RTX, not sure which one yet

Nice setup Juraj! This is almost exactly what I'm looking at getting, except with a 2TB 970 EVO as the main drive. Can't seem to find the MSI MEG in stock anywhere in the UK though :'(

I have to say I'm SUPER skeptical about that Enermax cooler after all of the horror stories with the V1. I'm either going full custom waterloop or sticking the biggest aircooler I can find on it with as many fans as possible - this looks good: http://thermalright.com/product/silver-arrow-tr4/

What 64GB RAM kit did you get btw? I'm getting some mixed messages about what the best kit is to run at 3000mhz min speeds. People are concerned that the 2990wx memory controller won't be able to handle 64gb+ at those speeds/with decent timings.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-23, 17:02:53
Hey Agent :- )

- I found single available (right now) source of MSI MEG on CyberPort. Apparently it was in stock...but after I paid, it still says ready to ship in 24 hour...for the whole week. No idea when I will get it, but it's not in stock anywhere else in Europe.

- I went through the QVL list for days. Holy crap is that a shitty QVL list. 500 Euro workstation board...and they keep testing 8GB modules in 8/16/32 configurations ??? There are very few 16GB modules in 64GB/128GB configurations and most of them are not even brands you can buy in Europe. And of course, I am not gonna pay 1000 Euro for some idiotic Trident-Z G-Skill which isn't on the QVL in 16GB modules anyway despite being Threadripper exclusive. In the end I found Corsair Vengeance at 3000 Mhz (so 2933 manually running) that is not any sort of magical Samsung B-Die or whatever is hyped to work best, but it was 680 Euro on Amazon.de, and that is price I can sadly live with.
I seriously hope it will run well at 2933 and correct timings.

The QVL is nightmare. Even if I find something you can actually buy in Europe on it (Corsair, Crucial, Adata & G.Skill), find in on some e-shop or amazon/ebay, it will be some newer revision with single letter changed in name and of course completely different maker. The same Corsair kit can be made by Samsung in February, tested on QVL, but then discountinued in April because newer version made by Hynix entered market. AMD needs to sort this. Nobody has time for this.

- I am extremely skeptical of Enermax unit as well. This is 4000+ Euro workstation, I am not gonna let rusty pump leak all over it and destroy it during project and then haggle with warranty (which is never guaranteed). It is the only powerful cooler on the market though and apparently second revision is on market, but of course you can't buy it anywhere. So maybe in six months ?

- I don't know if I have patience and will to pay for custom loop. EK didn't even design their TR4 CPU block properly, it was pure failure last year and had worse performance than cheapest Air. They had revision afterwards but I still believe it sucks. I didn't check what sort of loop Deba8er was running on that fancy schmancy Epyc dual-loop at Gamescom but obviously there are better CPU block pieces now. Still, that would be another 400 Euro investment and the whole idea of Threadripper is that it is affordable. Paying for overpriced MSI board just because every other board is pure failed design from phases point is enough, but over-paying on everything (Board + memory + custom loop) is bringing the whole idea of this workstation into uncomfortable territory for me. I am not a guy who likes wasting money on frills and custom loop is very much a frill.

- Same about the Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4. Apparently this cooler is on market since June...then where is it ?? You can't buy this crap anywhere. I've seen people pre-ordering it on ebay Japan. This cooler looks like total nonexisting vaporware.
  If it enters the European market, I would buy it since it looks on par with Noctua NH-D15, which Noctu has NO intention of bringing to TR4 because apparently there isn't any market for it and they are too lazy to redesign it allow enough clearance over PCI-E and memory modules on such large socket.

I would not be such an early adopter with all this pain but Veronika really needs workstation right now so I just decided to go with it anyway.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-23, 17:41:11
Great looking system!

It sounds like you've heard all the stories but for what it's worth I had an Enermax Liqtech 360 fail on me for my first gen threadripper.  Not fun, I'd keep a watchful eye on that thing.  I switched to Noctua and have been a lot happier while still running very cool (push\pull with an aggressive fan curve.)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-23, 17:49:46
Well, that sucks : /. Hope it didn't destroy anything in process.

I plan on placing additional A15PWM fan on the U14, not that it will do more than 2-3C difference but still. It's not like I have choice of going with anything else :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: balatschaka on 2018-08-25, 19:04:57
Hey Agent :- )

- I found single available (right now) source of MSI MEG on CyberPort. Apparently it was in stock...but after I paid, it still says ready to ship in 24 hour...for the whole week. No idea when I will get it, but it's not in stock anywhere else in Europe.

- I went through the QVL list for days. Holy crap is that a shitty QVL list. 500 Euro workstation board...and they keep testing 8GB modules in 8/16/32 configurations ??? There are very few 16GB modules in 64GB/128GB configurations and most of them are not even brands you can buy in Europe. And of course, I am not gonna pay 1000 Euro for some idiotic Trident-Z G-Skill which isn't on the QVL in 16GB modules anyway despite being Threadripper exclusive. In the end I found Corsair Vengeance at 3000 Mhz (so 2933 manually running) that is not any sort of magical Samsung B-Die or whatever is hyped to work best, but it was 680 Euro on Amazon.de, and that is price I can sadly live with.
I seriously hope it will run well at 2933 and correct timings.

The QVL is nightmare. Even if I find something you can actually buy in Europe on it (Corsair, Crucial, Adata & G.Skill), find in on some e-shop or amazon/ebay, it will be some newer revision with single letter changed in name and of course completely different maker. The same Corsair kit can be made by Samsung in February, tested on QVL, but then discountinued in April because newer version made by Hynix entered market. AMD needs to sort this. Nobody has time for this.

- I am extremely skeptical of Enermax unit as well. This is 4000+ Euro workstation, I am not gonna let rusty pump leak all over it and destroy it during project and then haggle with warranty (which is never guaranteed). It is the only powerful cooler on the market though and apparently second revision is on market, but of course you can't buy it anywhere. So maybe in six months ?

- I don't know if I have patience and will to pay for custom loop. EK didn't even design their TR4 CPU block properly, it was pure failure last year and had worse performance than cheapest Air. They had revision afterwards but I still believe it sucks. I didn't check what sort of loop Deba8er was running on that fancy schmancy Epyc dual-loop at Gamescom but obviously there are better CPU block pieces now. Still, that would be another 400 Euro investment and the whole idea of Threadripper is that it is affordable. Paying for overpriced MSI board just because every other board is pure failed design from phases point is enough, but over-paying on everything (Board + memory + custom loop) is bringing the whole idea of this workstation into uncomfortable territory for me. I am not a guy who likes wasting money on frills and custom loop is very much a frill.

- Same about the Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4. Apparently this cooler is on market since June...then where is it ?? You can't buy this crap anywhere. I've seen people pre-ordering it on ebay Japan. This cooler looks like total nonexisting vaporware.
  If it enters the European market, I would buy it since it looks on par with Noctua NH-D15, which Noctu has NO intention of bringing to TR4 because apparently there isn't any market for it and they are too lazy to redesign it allow enough clearance over PCI-E and memory modules on such large socket.

I would not be such an early adopter with all this pain but Veronika really needs workstation right now so I just decided to go with it anyway.

Thanks for the insight. I've send my boss a list for new components (2990wx, msi-399 AND Enermax cooler) literally 5minutes ago. Changed it to Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4 (https://www.alternate.de/Thermalright/Silver-Arrow-TR4-CPU-K%C3%BChler/html/product/1468793).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jann on 2018-08-28, 12:57:56
A bit of a thread hijacking, but I'm finding conflicting info if Threadrippers (both 1&2 gen) support ECC Registered ram?
I know ram speed is beneficial for Ryzen, but with current ram prices, wonder if my old 128Gb 2133MHz ECC Reg set is worth keeping for a TR system.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-28, 13:05:06
Lot of the boards do support it straight out of bat, like Taichi for example:

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X399%20Taichi/index.asp

I've seen lot of people saying they have no issues at all, even saying the ECC functionality itself works under Server OS, not that it would matter to us ;- ).

But I don't see it under MSI MEG website, and since no one was able to test it yet (since no one outside of like 5 reviewers had the board), no answer can be found. You might try emailing them, but only some intern who will at best look up at the same public website will give you answer "Doesn't look like we support it".
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-08-28, 13:26:29
Hey Agent :- )

- I found single available (right now) source of MSI MEG on CyberPort. Apparently it was in stock...but after I paid, it still says ready to ship in 24 hour...for the whole week. No idea when I will get it, but it's not in stock anywhere else in Europe.

- I went through the QVL list for days. Holy crap is that a shitty QVL list. 500 Euro workstation board...and they keep testing 8GB modules in 8/16/32 configurations ??? There are very few 16GB modules in 64GB/128GB configurations and most of them are not even brands you can buy in Europe. And of course, I am not gonna pay 1000 Euro for some idiotic Trident-Z G-Skill which isn't on the QVL in 16GB modules anyway despite being Threadripper exclusive. In the end I found Corsair Vengeance at 3000 Mhz (so 2933 manually running) that is not any sort of magical Samsung B-Die or whatever is hyped to work best, but it was 680 Euro on Amazon.de, and that is price I can sadly live with.
I seriously hope it will run well at 2933 and correct timings.

The QVL is nightmare. Even if I find something you can actually buy in Europe on it (Corsair, Crucial, Adata & G.Skill), find in on some e-shop or amazon/ebay, it will be some newer revision with single letter changed in name and of course completely different maker. The same Corsair kit can be made by Samsung in February, tested on QVL, but then discountinued in April because newer version made by Hynix entered market. AMD needs to sort this. Nobody has time for this.

- I am extremely skeptical of Enermax unit as well. This is 4000+ Euro workstation, I am not gonna let rusty pump leak all over it and destroy it during project and then haggle with warranty (which is never guaranteed). It is the only powerful cooler on the market though and apparently second revision is on market, but of course you can't buy it anywhere. So maybe in six months ?

- I don't know if I have patience and will to pay for custom loop. EK didn't even design their TR4 CPU block properly, it was pure failure last year and had worse performance than cheapest Air. They had revision afterwards but I still believe it sucks. I didn't check what sort of loop Deba8er was running on that fancy schmancy Epyc dual-loop at Gamescom but obviously there are better CPU block pieces now. Still, that would be another 400 Euro investment and the whole idea of Threadripper is that it is affordable. Paying for overpriced MSI board just because every other board is pure failed design from phases point is enough, but over-paying on everything (Board + memory + custom loop) is bringing the whole idea of this workstation into uncomfortable territory for me. I am not a guy who likes wasting money on frills and custom loop is very much a frill.

- Same about the Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4. Apparently this cooler is on market since June...then where is it ?? You can't buy this crap anywhere. I've seen people pre-ordering it on ebay Japan. This cooler looks like total nonexisting vaporware.
  If it enters the European market, I would buy it since it looks on par with Noctua NH-D15, which Noctu has NO intention of bringing to TR4 because apparently there isn't any market for it and they are too lazy to redesign it allow enough clearance over PCI-E and memory modules on such large socket.

I would not be such an early adopter with all this pain but Veronika really needs workstation right now so I just decided to go with it anyway.

Ah man tell me about it re RAM choice. I've been researching for weeks and still and undecided after checking various QVL lists. Am really quite annoyed that such a high end system doesn't have better RAM support. The other option was the Gigabyte Aorus extreme motherboard...which has marginally better support for 16GB dimms, but I hear their bios's are horrendous...so there's that.

I'm also undecided on going custom water as you're right, it's quite an expense. But I can't really see a viable alternative in the short term (lots of high end coolers still not on the market!).

Either way I'm kind of in the same boat - I need an upgrade asap for my dying Xeon system. Let me know how you get on with the build? I'm planning on putting everything together in the next 2 or so weeks.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jann on 2018-08-28, 13:49:41
Lot of the boards do support it straight out of bat, like Taichi for example:

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X399%20Taichi/index.asp

I've seen lot of people saying they have no issues at all, even saying the ECC functionality itself works under Server OS, not that it would matter to us ;- ).

But I don't see it under MSI MEG website, and since no one was able to test it yet (since no one outside of like 5 reviewers had the board), no answer can be found. You might try emailing them, but only some intern who will at best look up at the same public website will give you answer "Doesn't look like we support it".
Yeah... ebay it is then :|
Better to get less, but supported memory.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-28, 13:53:06
Hey Agent,

I got DHL notice my MSI MEG is on way, so I hope it's here by Friday and I will build it immediately. More of my notes that might give you more insight :- )

- The memory controller is on the chip, so if one memory is on QVL of one MB maker, it should also "in theory" work on all other of same chipset. For most part. In practice, there seemed to be much issues with Asus boards, mainly their top Zenith. Ironical.
- With all the bios updates now done, I believe the worst that can happen is running at worse timing, but of course that's not ideal..

- I've double checked various loops in past two days because I second guessed myself. In the end the EKWB would start at 480 Euros, they have redesigned full-cover full-nickel CPU plate. Mind you, the performance difference compared to something like the Enermax AIO would be minimal, just because it has higher quality parts, doesn't mean it has any more dissipation power. Physics are physics, so the basic 480 Euro single 360/420mm radiator loop would simply run more silent due to high quality pump and bring more peace of mind but not better thermals.
- I believe dual-rad (2xthin 360mm rad) would offer performance advantage, but we're looking at 700-800 euro of investment.
- So yeah... not very economical thing for that additional 10perc. of performance. Depends how big is your render farm. If big, don't bother building ultra-station. If small, then maybe worth the investment.

- I've been told by Thermalight rep the Silver Arrow should be widely available in October. For some reason, all the cooler makers, including Coolermaster's Wraithripper are scheduled to enter market with the lower Threadrippers.
- I still don't know when the Enermax II will be available, but I would probably go for that instead of custom loop if you really want water. My guess is...again October.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-29, 13:38:13
Any Chinese willing to help out :- ) ?

You can buy Thermalight Silver Arrow TR4 from Tmall, it's even in black ! Looks glorious.

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a220m.1000858.1000725.1.49f6137bfMYtPi&id=571526554977&skuId=3906628315202&user_id=3619201243&cat_id=2&is_b=1&rn=80a3137a510d2707a9e946da2136abff

I can't find it on any english-portal chinese sites though, just tmall.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-29, 22:34:10
Well fuck it, I don't have time for that. Can't afford to wait another month, need this PC right now, might as well go all the way.

Ordered full EKWB water loop with their revised cpu block. I pondered Heat Killer IV but apparently the revised block is on same level so I'll keep it as single order.

This will be fun guys ;- ) Dual radiator setup...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Gewiz90 on 2018-08-30, 00:33:31
What ram did you go for?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-30, 00:47:28
Well fuck it, I don't have time for that. Can't afford to wait another month, need this PC right now, might as well go all the way.

Ordered full EKWB water loop with their revised cpu block. I pondered Heat Killer IV but apparently the revised block is on same level so I'll keep it as single order.

This will be fun guys ;- ) Dual radiator setup...

Wowwww...what a machine that will be.  You said you are building it for Veronika in your office?  How long before you steal it...or build a duplicate for yourself ;-)

Edit:  Random musing, but this whole discussion is kind of interesting when you think about GPU vs CPU.  If these RT cores actually do make for a faster experience, upgrading and expanding your GPUs is so much easier than a CPU.  Cooling, ram, etc all kind of go away in a sense.  I’m on the cusp of expanding a little bit and am pondering hardware, so it makes one think!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-30, 01:00:23
Well fuck it, I don't have time for that. Can't afford to wait another month, need this PC right now, might as well go all the way.

Ordered full EKWB water loop with their revised cpu block. I pondered Heat Killer IV but apparently the revised block is on same level so I'll keep it as single order.

This will be fun guys ;- ) Dual radiator setup...

Wowwww...what a machine that will be.  You said you are building it for Veronika in your office?  How long before you steal it...or build a duplicate for yourself ;-)

Yeah this one is hers :- ) I already built the i9 7980XE few months ago, although with bit disappointing thermals despite delid.

Btw, regarding the CPU vs GPU and ease of adding GPUs, you currently can't have both easily. All the hardcore boards like MSI-MEG coming up are 3-way SLI, like the makers didn't know SLI is dead and NVLink comes in pairs ?
To get the best out of NVLink with RTX cards, you can only use two or four cards to memory pool because three of them will have the third card lower the whole memory pool back to single card.

So if someone is thinking of going GPU in the future, think about this and buy motherboard that can actually take 4 dual-slot GPUs. MSI-MEG can't. So much for 500 Euro boards :- ).

I myself am pondering if it's finally the time for GPU rendering to make full on break-through. Pascal + RT Cores for performance, NVLink on consumer cards for double memory (2x2080ti=22GB Vram, a lot !!).
I can't wait for Vlado's publishing once NDA for RTX falls in September and see how the battle between VrayGPU and others will go.

But you're absolutely right about the ease. You could now build 4x2080ti Workstation (although for the same price you could build 8x1080ti...) which with pooled Vram would be like ultimate render-farm in one single case. It would be 8k euro machine but for what you would get in performance, everything in CPU world would pale in comparison. I can't even imagine those 1 minute renders in Redshift :- )

What ram did you go for?

Corsair Vengeance 3000 CL15 64(4x16). It's not Ryzen or TR specific, but it was like the only 4x16x3000+ tested on the QVL list :- ). Also, got it for 680 Euro of Amazon, which is lot better than the TR specific sets currently going for 1000 +/- Euros (funny enough, MSI didn't even test them for QVL... )
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-30, 03:48:34
Well fuck it, I don't have time for that. Can't afford to wait another month, need this PC right now, might as well go all the way.

Ordered full EKWB water loop with their revised cpu block. I pondered Heat Killer IV but apparently the revised block is on same level so I'll keep it as single order.

This will be fun guys ;- ) Dual radiator setup...

Wowwww...what a machine that will be.  You said you are building it for Veronika in your office?  How long before you steal it...or build a duplicate for yourself ;-)

Yeah this one is hers :- ) I already built the i9 7980XE few months ago, although with bit disappointing thermals despite delid.

Btw, regarding the CPU vs GPU and ease of adding GPUs, you currently can't have both easily. All the hardcore boards like MSI-MEG coming up are 3-way SLI, like the makers didn't know SLI is dead and NVLink comes in pairs ?
To get the best out of NVLink with RTX cards, you can only use two or four cards to memory pool because three of them will have the third card lower the whole memory pool back to single card.

So if someone is thinking of going GPU in the future, think about this and buy motherboard that can actually take 4 dual-slot GPUs. MSI-MEG can't. So much for 500 Euro boards :- ).

I myself am pondering if it's finally the time for GPU rendering to make full on break-through. Pascal + RT Cores for performance, NVLink on consumer cards for double memory (2x2080ti=22GB Vram, a lot !!).
I can't wait for Vlado's publishing once NDA for RTX falls in September and see how the battle between VrayGPU and others will go.

But you're absolutely right about the ease. You could now build 4x2080ti Workstation (although for the same price you could build 8x1080ti...) which with pooled Vram would be like ultimate render-farm in one single case. It would be 8k euro machine but for what you would get in performance, everything in CPU world would pale in comparison. I can't even imagine those 1 minute renders in Redshift :- )

What ram did you go for?

Corsair Vengeance 3000 CL15 64(4x16). It's not Ryzen or TR specific, but it was like the only 4x16x3000+ tested on the QVL list :- ). Also, got it for 680 Euro of Amazon, which is lot better than the TR specific sets currently going for 1000 +/- Euros (funny enough, MSI didn't even test them for QVL... )

Yes, exactly!  If VRay would only push the usability a little bit...material preview, VFB2, lightmix, LUT opacity slider.  It’s the little things that have been promised for so long, but man they make a difference day-to-day in Corona.

I’m holding on upgrading to the 2990wx until the NDA is lifted...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-31, 21:44:47
Ok, so not yet building anything this weekend.

My CyberPort order of MSI MEG x399 arrived today...and it was 100 euro MSI B450 instead ! :- D

There is not a single another copy in whole mainland Europe. Nowhere. So another two weeks. What a failed start for Threadripper. No boards, no coolers.

At least my EKWB loop came. I can build it and look how it cools nothing :- )

Seriously, look at this. Next time send gtx 1020 for 30 euros instead of RTX 2080ti because both are called "nVidia" on box.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-08-31, 22:36:16
Ok, so not yet building anything this weekend.

My CyberPort order of MSI MEG x399 arrived today...and it was 100 euro MSI B450 instead ! :- D

There is not a single another copy in whole mainland Europe. Nowhere. So another two weeks. What a failed start for Threadripper. No boards, no coolers.

At least my EKWB loop came. I can build it and look how it cools nothing :- )

Seriously, look at this. Next time send gtx 1020 for 30 euros instead of RTX 2080ti because both are called "nVidia" on box.

Ah, that sucks!   Depending on your need and timeframe, you might have luck finding a Taichi in the meantime and flash the Bios to be compatible.  I have one and like it and I believe it can overclock the 2990wx.  Assuming your RAM is on the QVL list of course.  Just a thought, probably not worth it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-08-31, 22:47:19
You know what's funny, that Taichi, despite being "budget" sorta, and only ATX sized board, accomodates 4 dual-slot GPUs.

Massive and overpriced MSI, does not.

I will stick with MSI for now but only because I would like to have the phase support it offers. Taichi offers 8+3 which I am not that confident in.

Then there is Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme x399 with 10+3 phases. Better, but far cry from MSI. But it supports quad-GPU and has on board 10gbe, saving one pci-e slot.
Hmm, might look into it to see how stable it is under overclocking but I think there were like zero useful reviews of it because almost nobody got a copy.

Edit: Ok, great review by Kitguru guy. Still, that board is not available either :- D I found single copy in whole Europe from shop which doesn't send outside of Germany. Great.
I will wait for the MSI, what else.

(PS: Sorry for the "edit tag"...)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-09-01, 00:00:58
You know what's funny, that Taichi, despite being "budget" sorta, and only ATX sized board, accomodates 4 dual-slot GPUs.

Massive and overpriced MSI, does not.

I will stick with MSI for now but only because I would like to have the phase support it offers. Taichi offers 8+3 which I am not that confident in.

Then there is Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme x399 with 10+3 phases. Better, but far cry from MSI. But it supports quad-GPU and has on board 10gbe, saving one pci-e slot.
Hmm, might look into it to see how stable it is under overclocking but I think there were like zero useful reviews of it because almost nobody got a copy.

Edit: Ok, great review by Kitguru guy. Still, that board is not available either :- D I found single copy in whole Europe from shop which doesn't send outside of Germany. Great.
I will wait for the MSI, what else.

(PS: Sorry for the "edit tag"...)

I was just about to send that review.  I knew I had seen people giving it good marks with the 2990wx.  Bummer about the availability.  For future build I can highly recommend the board.  I'm in the states so Newegg\Amazon are my go-to's when it comes to stuff.    Depending on 2080Ti benchmarks, etc. and if I decide to upgrade to a 2990wx I may or may not upgrade my mainboard.  I'm thinking of not upgrading and even just seeing how my Noctua does.  Keep costs as low as possible.  Or I just build a new system...not like I can get much for my 1950x now.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-01, 11:50:39
Leo just published review of the MSI board and it really is class of its own in terms of hardware. He even goes on to say OC (manual) on this board would be foolish since you can just up the watt cap and let it do its job.
He criticizes rightly the shit RGB all over and no 10GBe but that fades out.

So for the 32c 2990WX it doesn't look like any board is even remotely close.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-09-01, 15:30:18
Ok, so not yet building anything this weekend.

My CyberPort order of MSI MEG x399 arrived today...and it was 100 euro MSI B450 instead ! :- D

Wow this is some bull$hit!!! Hope you get it sorted asap.

Interesting review by Leo on the MEG, you can spot me in the comments asking about RAM haha. Pretty much sealed it for me for getting the MSI board seeing as the Asus and Gigabyte's VRM's were going over 100c when overclocking.

Any reason you went with the EK block vs something like the heatkiller one that topped out HardOCP's charts? To be fair though, I haven't seen any comparisons of the revised EK block - got any links to hand?

I'm still getting my head around how to go about setting up the loop (where to place fill/drain ports e.t.c).  I'm really liking the look of this case for watercooling: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lian-li-pc-o11-dynamic-midi-tower-white-window-ca-76t-ll.html - I could set up a max of 3 radiators in it comfortably, and has mounting space for the pump/reservoir. I'm thinking of including some quick discconect fittings for the 2nd or 3rd rad so that I can add in a 2080ti later on (it looks like it's going to be a toasty beast due to the die size).

*Edit* if you manage to figure out how to order that Silver Arrow heatsink do let me know how as I might get it as a backup option in case I run into any issues with the loop.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-01, 16:23:30
Yeah, the other boards do look like no-go for overclocking due to how overtheated the VRMs become.

The EK vs Heatkiller IV. I found comparison of revised EK to XSCP Raystorm which as you know is identical in performance to HK IV. So basically the takeaway was that HK IV=XSCP RS=Revised EK.
So for simplicity, best look, single invoice order, and better warranty (if you build the whole loop from single brand, they can't complain if something goes wrong) I went with the newest EK.

My loop will be extremely simple. 360 on top, 280 in front (the reason for not another 360 is because it's real struggle to access the top ports in Define as they get too close to each other), Pump/Reservoir combo mounted in front of front 280 rad as well as fill port.
I stayed with simple Define R6 as I like all boxes to look the same :- ). I only buy Fractal.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-01, 16:23:57
I`m going for same build as you Juraj. I`m just patiently waiting  for couple more weeks for additional components reviews(coolers), but for now it seems i stick with Aorus extreme.  My main workload is FX in Houdini and rendering in Vray/Redshift with heavy GPU usage. Aorus have better PCI slots arrangements for me. I use 3 GPUs. I use 10Gbit network at home from my slave machines and NAS. PCIe setup with Aorus works great. With MSI , there is no 10Gb nic and PCIe slots arragement on MSI will not allow for 3GPUs(2 slot each) + 10Gb PCIe card.

For the RAM,i need 128GB.  MSI QVL list for 128GB, pretty much no choices. But i found multiple kits from G.Skill that works with both MSI and Aorus. Just check here if you missed it

https://www.gskill.com/en/catalog/desktop-memory , they actually list QVL board types :)  Aorus have more then ten 128GB kits in QVL list. So better then MSI in this  aspect.

MSI looks great on VRMs, but that`s pretty much it.  If i can do 5000-5400 Cinebench on Aorus fine with me. To be able to get to additional 5500-6000 it`s getting really expensive with any board. Power consumption, custom loop cooling, better rams, not mentioning sitting in room with 1KW heating all the time.  My conclusion is that the stretch for another 5-7% performance is not worth the trouble/expenses/comfort.

cheers and looking forward for photos of your build

Peter
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-01, 16:48:49
Hi Peter ! :- ) What a pleasant surprise to have legend like you here.

Absolutely agree with your choices. If we were using GPU rendering I would absolutely go for the Aorus instead. Lot more reasonable layout and better board overall. Since the most we're gonna dabble in GPU rendering for now might be Unreal engine, I think two GPU's will have to suffice. Even if we were to fully swap to GPU rendering in future (in year or two) I don't think either of us would install more than 2 GPUs at once since I would still like to offload that to our farm (where I can still fit 4 full GPUs onto each of our many xeon machines).

Could you not fit 3 GPUs + 1 Ethernet card by fitting the GPUs in the top first, and the lowest two and the Ethernet card into third from top under the top GPU ?
Still, I would not go for 3-slot only board for GPU rendering. MSI did really strange choice here.

The MSI is strange board and I openly admit I do plan to buy it purely for the phases with some reservations. But our workflow right now is 99perc. Corona so why not get the most out of it if I can is the whole philosophy.

I did check the G.Skill QVL as well, but when I did that the MSI MEG wasn't even there yet and for other MSI boards there it was super limited.
I originally wanted to get 64 GB to keep the costs reasonable but now that I went all out with watercooling, I might swap to 128 as well.

1KW each machine..no need to tell me about the kind of sauna in creates :- ). I installed 4KW AC this summer in our office room. 36C outside + 3 PCs running wasn't very pleasurable experience last summer.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-03, 13:51:40
Update regarding MSI MEG x399 situation:

Quote
...according to the distributer information I currently doubt this date and count with the product not before the end of september.

End of September lol. Did they make a grand total of 10 units and gave them all to reviewers ?

Just checked out all the shops. Zero units in Europe, 3 units in USA, all to ship between 18th September and early October.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jann on 2018-09-03, 16:30:03
For what it's worth, some local e-shops show the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme x399 for order, but with shipping time 15-19 september. Soo, not much sooner.
It's almost like MSI and Gigabyte don't want the free advertising such extreme builds bring for them :|
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-03, 16:38:14
For what it's worth, some local e-shops show the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme x399 for order, but with shipping time 15-19 september. Soo, not much sooner.
It's almost like MSI and Gigabyte don't want the free advertising such extreme builds bring for them :|

I would say it's almost like they just don't want to sell any of those two boards at all :- ).

Truth be told I would go with Aorus since I like it more, but now that I have all this cooling, I have to stick with the overclocking board :- ).

Still, this is baffling. Selling boards and coolers two months after selling the CPUs ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-06, 23:47:33
I am starting to get a suspicion that reason for delay across the world is due to revision (even if the revision is just out-of-the-box newer Uefi).

There is only miniscule amount of these boards out (outside of reviewers, but even those I can count of two hands) and already quite few of "stuff just freezes".
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-09-07, 00:53:20
I am starting to get a suspicion that reason for delay across the world is due to revision (even if the revision is just out-of-the-box newer Uefi).

There is only miniscule amount of these boards out (outside of reviewers, but even those I can count of two hands) and already quite few of "stuff just freezes".

Hum.  That’s disconcerting but not surprising given past events.  I think I’ll be holding on my 2990wx build for a little while.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-07, 14:07:35
I am starting to get a suspicion that reason for delay across the world is due to revision (even if the revision is just out-of-the-box newer Uefi).

There is only miniscule amount of these boards out (outside of reviewers, but even those I can count of two hands) and already quite few of "stuff just freezes".

Hey Juraj, most of the issues with x399 board and 29xx series seem to be coming from memory. Related to timings and frequency mostly but i guess you already know that. Recently i follow  lot of threads about it.  Meg gets discussed a lot but it seems it`s bios related mostly . There is good thread here with links to MSI alpha bios version and progress

https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-amd-cpus/1705286-ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-2970wx-2950x-2920x-owners-club-11.html

Larry B. there is actually guy who did the ryzen Dram calculator which helps to solve a lot of mem issues.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1640919-ryzen-dram-calculator-1-1-0-beta-2-overclocking-dram-am4.html

I have all my stuff already ordered, went for Aourus Extreme 128GB RAM.  Kit is https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx , both Meg an Aorus are on QVL lis, and i found people on forums running these mem sticks with the  Meg, Zenith too. Unfortunately i have to wait 10 days for ram kit , ordered directly from G.skill as there were zero pieces in stock in Europe.

Looking forward for your build updates :)


Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-07, 14:16:47
So how much did the memory run you :- ) ?

The UEFI (bios) thing is rather strange given these boards came specifically for the TR gen2. Honestly have no idea what could have gone wrong for board that had one job exactly on market entrance.

The build I am going for will be real fun, not gonna post it yet as I revised both the case choice and loop. Bit crazy..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-07, 14:28:38
I had to sell my kidney to get that RAM :D  , 1650Eur

For cooling i did change my plans too and went for 2x360 rads.., should be good up to 800W at 10 Celsius delta... , heatkiller iv pro block

For case, R6 was obvious choice, i have R5s now , But then i saw Phanteks Evolve X and  i just could not resist , looks amazing and more space on top for rads then R6..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 15:06:56
Board finally came ! :- ) Just waiting for the case here, should come in 3-4 days.
(Looks battered as hell on photo, but the board is fine, no worry)


(https://media.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif)


(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=90562;image)

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: romullus on 2018-09-10, 15:16:50
Holy crap, is this PC motherboard or spare part for some transformer?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 15:38:26
It's horribly ugly :- ). But those "deconstructed" elements are just pieces of plastics glued onto black square metallic heat sinks.

I would remove them..but that would complicate the warranty process, which isn't best idea for 600 euro board.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2018-09-10, 15:42:24
Looks great! I now have available to order the X399 Aorus Extreeme in Hungary and its 450 euros. It's such a tease but I will try to wait 2 more months more just to get a better picture of what is available and best to buy at the moment of purchase... Can't wait to see you Corona bench scores though!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 15:45:35
Originally I had bunch of orders at 480 +/- euro from german e-shops, but it all proved to be bust. Local big shop got a copy for 580 so I grabbed that one. I believe this will be the "new" price from now on mostly.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/leo-waldock/msi-meg-x399-creation-the-best-motherboard-ever/

The best motherboard ever would be Aorus layout (4 dual-slot GPUs) + Aorus features (10gbe) + MSI hardware (19 phases), but right now knowing I will never put more than two GPUs inside, it's MSI.
But from the chart you can see if your intended overclock is 3.6 + 3.8 +/- , Aorus should be enough but I would still treasure the stability the additional phases bring to table (35 Degree C difference on VRM)

Lol at Zenith, 120 degree C at 3.8Ghz. Better install that tiny 4cm fan "kit". "Overclocker's dream board".

Who knows what X499 will bring.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-10, 17:12:40
Originally I had bunch of orders at 480 +/- euro from german e-shops, but it all proved to be bust. Local big shop got a copy for 580 so I grabbed that one. I believe this will be the "new" price from now on mostly.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/leo-waldock/msi-meg-x399-creation-the-best-motherboard-ever/

The best motherboard ever would be Aorus layout (4 dual-slot GPUs) + Aorus features (10gbe) + MSI hardware (19 phases), but right now knowing I will never put more than two GPUs inside, it's MSI.
But from the chart you can see if your intended overclock is 3.6 + 3.8 +/- , Aorus should be enough but I would still treasure the stability the additional phases bring to table (35 Degree C difference on VRM)

Lol at Zenith, 120 degree C at 3.8Ghz. Better install that tiny 4cm fan "kit". "Overclocker's dream board".

Who knows what X499 will bring.

Well said.Sadly we can`t have best of both worlds on eATX, and there are no proper x399 workstation boards(WTF). But those VRM on MSI are godly indeed.  I read that article earlier today too, and was quite happy about it. My Aorus should be ok for mid range overclock, exactly what i`m aiming for.  I hope i can tear down that plastic piece of sh** from the top VRM heatsink too, and put two small 30mm fans there to knock down few degrees from VRMs.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 17:22:45
After reading all about the MSI, I had contemplated replacing my x299 board (ROG STRIX-E with 8 phases and only 8+4 pins) on my i9 7980XE workstation. All the "WS" grade boards (like the mammoth Asus SAGE) had surprisingly 8 phases once again. While something much cheaper like AsRock Taichi XE had 13 phases (for CPU only, the much more expensive fatality had 12+2 for memory, so 13 for CPU was the highest of all x299 series.
Funny how x299 boards now start at 200 euros brand new, shows how much that platform really "took off". I expect the same of x599 if it actually materializes at some point.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-10, 17:27:26
This thread has been super helpfull for me - my 2990wx and msi board arrived today. I picked the msi based mainly on the vrm and mainly steered towards it from this thread.
All I need now is to find some in stock memory, wait for the Evolv x to be released (or ditch it and go back to Fractal), and wait for the Enermax Liqtech II to be released! I’ve also got massive reservations about the Enermax, but without going custom water cooled and worrying that an air cooler won’t get the temps down enough I’m stuck as to an option.
I never thought the hardest part of this build would be giving shops my money.....
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 17:36:06
Enermax Liqtech II release date is truly strange. It was being sold on Newegg only but it's not there anymore, not even as "out of stock". It just vanished :- ). I would write them to ask about this (Enermax).

Looks like majority of the units that got made are within prebuilt configurations.

Case: Stick with Fractal for AIO or Air cooler, go with something else for custom loop (like the Evolve). The tall VRM heatsink on MSI is trouble-causer :- ). I need to measure it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-10, 18:18:12
Juraj, are you going for top radiator too? PE thickness?  It`s tight up there, one of the reasons i go for Evolve X, more space then R6 on top.  The only issue... have to wait for Evolve X 3weeks.. Fans pretty much have to overlap the board... and that VRM heatsink is high..

here is Evolve X with dual 360 rads


Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 18:46:59
I already returned the Define R6. One of the reason I want to show the final case once I start building is I am sort of embarased by the choice :- ) I saw it one of two lesser evils, with the one I chose at least being sort of exotic/unorthodox instead of cosmic shapes.
It hurts my heart Define XL3 doesn't exist.

I am going for 45mm 420mm top radiator with 3x pull 140mm fans, and 60mm 360mm rad in front with 6x120mm push/pull fans.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-10, 18:51:50
Yeap, that top space is my main reason for wanting an Evolv to shove as big a rad in there as possible. Sept 24th seems to be the realise date. Agree with you that a XL3 would be great, I use a XL2 which I love, but now I’ve ended up with an rgb motherboard it seems a shame not to see it 😏
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-10, 18:54:59
but now I’ve ended up with an rgb motherboard it seems a shame not to see it 😏

Heresy :-)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-10, 19:01:32
Lol, same here. It`s going to be "rainbow is magic" build , Aorus + G.Skill RGB RAM + glass side panel. 
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2018-09-11, 11:07:04
Originally I had bunch of orders at 480 +/- euro from german e-shops, but it all proved to be bust. Local big shop got a copy for 580 so I grabbed that one. I believe this will be the "new" price from now on mostly.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/leo-waldock/msi-meg-x399-creation-the-best-motherboard-ever/

The best motherboard ever would be Aorus layout (4 dual-slot GPUs) + Aorus features (10gbe) + MSI hardware (19 phases), but right now knowing I will never put more than two GPUs inside, it's MSI.
But from the chart you can see if your intended overclock is 3.6 + 3.8 +/- , Aorus should be enough but I would still treasure the stability the additional phases bring to table (35 Degree C difference on VRM)

Lol at Zenith, 120 degree C at 3.8Ghz. Better install that tiny 4cm fan "kit". "Overclocker's dream board".

Who knows what X499 will bring.

I totally agree with you on this one. Would always go for the board with more phases but for me its still not available right now so I will probably wait until it gets out in the local shops or something even better shows up. I have my hopes in As Rock for this segment. Although I am not a big fan of them they always excelled at making boards capable for high overcloking.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-11, 11:38:56
I am surprised how disappointing the late Asus boards are. They used to have top-grade models but now it looks like it's all fancy heatsinks and branding. It's ok to have that but at least coupled with performance, but for them it's lately just the visage.

The gaming oriented branding has been nothing but poor choice for prosumer market. But I guess the marketing departments have done their research and figured out it's actually lot more gamers and enthousiasts buying this stuff regardless of how useless it is for them.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Fluss on 2018-09-11, 12:38:00
Yeap, that top space is my main reason for wanting an Evolv to shove as big a rad in there as possible. Sept 24th seems to be the realise date. Agree with you that a XL3 would be great, I use a XL2 which I love, but now I’ve ended up with an rgb motherboard it seems a shame not to see it 😏

Don't worry, phanteks cases are best in class ! I prefer my enthoo pro over my XL2, good cable management, removable drive cage, better cooling, proper SSI EEB mounting etc etc... Just a bit noisier. That's not a problem as my prosafe xs708e cover them all 10 times :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-12, 10:35:48
Yeah, I've had a look round for other cases, and keep coming back to the Evolv X - I'll just have to wait until later this month to get my hands on one. Do Phantexs not realise that my other workstations are struggling and that I need to get building?!

Has anyone got any good suggestions for power supplies? I think I need to get around 1200w, and will probably get something from EVGA as I've used them before and had no problems, but if anyone knows a better option I'm all ears....
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Radim Razzak on 2018-09-12, 10:54:21
Yeah, I've had a look round for other cases, and keep coming back to the Evolv X - I'll just have to wait until later this month to get my hands on one. Do Phantexs not realise that my other workstations are struggling and that I need to get building?!

Has anyone got any good suggestions for power supplies? I think I need to get around 1200w, and will probably get something from EVGA as I've used them before and had no problems, but if anyone knows a better option I'm all ears....

I don't know about other brands, but I quite like Corsair PSUs with i-link, which allows you to monitor different values of motherboard, CPUs, RAMs, VGA and PSU itself. I've had many Corsair PSUs and never had a single problem. I still use a 10 years old Corsair HX520 in one of my machine and no problem at all...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-12, 13:31:06
My personal opinion is that there is no need to go for anything different than Seasonic unless you're budget shopping or have peculiar need for warranty ( like US region where warranty is otherwise limited).

Corsair, BeQuite, EVGA and other reputable brands source their PSU from various OEMs like Seasonic, Super Flower, Channel Well,etc.
So particular Corsair AX can be made by Seasonic, but AXi by Flextronics & Chicony.

And seriously, do you want Seasonic or Chicony to manufacture your high-end 200+ Euro PSU ? Just get Seasonic.

There is hardly anything better than Seasonic Prime models (G/P/T) on the market right now, it's the latest&greatest. Unparalleled build quality, look at any review.

The only tiny critique I have ever seen on Prime could be sometimes more aggressive fan curve, but this isn't going to be an issue if you go over 1k watt (and you should do that for 2990WX + 1 or 2 GPUs) and I personally find it still super silent.
I have used Prime Titanium for file server and Prime Gold for past two workstations I've build. Will also use Prime Gold 1200W this time.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-12, 15:30:47
I use multiple corsairs 1000W and 1200W in my builds and they all worked fine in past 5 years. For this new 2990wx + 3GPU build i picked their best model AX1600i

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu-review-unparalleled-performance/6
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Gewiz90 on 2018-09-12, 16:59:33
Why is the Enermax Liqtech II better than any other AIO Cooler? is it worth the wait or do I get an Evga clc280?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-12, 17:07:25
Why is the Enermax Liqtech II better than any other AIO Cooler? is it worth the wait or do I get an Evga clc280?

Because it's the only one available with full heatspreader coverage for TR4 (We're only talking in context of this platform, not generally for AIOs), which has been proved to be necessary for Threadripper both for <=16 cores if you want overclocking, or >16 cores to even run properly without throttling as you need to dissipate 250 Watts (without overclocking, with overclocking 500W+).
Any air cooler with full heatspreader coverage (like Noctua NH-U14 TR4 or Silver Arrow ) will be much better choice than AIO with smaller CPU block (retained by adapter basically).

I know a lot of people with 280/360mm AIOs like Kraken NZXT on their 1950X where it sorta ok job for base clocks, or slight overclock + noisy. But absolutely no-go for 2990WX.

For this new 2990wx + 3GPU build i picked their best model AX1600i

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu-review-unparalleled-performance/6

You did tell your girlfriend/wife how much you're spending right :- ) ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-12, 18:22:55
Quote
You did tell your girlfriend/wife how much you're spending right :- ) ?

She approved after i told her that PSU it`s powerful enough to run all kitchen appliances too :D
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-13, 16:40:53
My personal opinion is that there is no need to go for anything different than Seasonic unless you're budget shopping or have peculiar need for warranty ( like US region where warranty is otherwise limited).

Corsair, BeQuite, EVGA and other reputable brands source their PSU from various OEMs like Seasonic, Super Flower, Channel Well,etc.
So particular Corsair AX can be made by Seasonic, but AXi by Flextronics & Chicony.

And seriously, do you want Seasonic or Chicony to manufacture your high-end 200+ Euro PSU ? Just get Seasonic.

There is hardly anything better than Seasonic Prime models (G/P/T) on the market right now, it's the latest&greatest. Unparalleled build quality, look at any review.

The only tiny critique I have ever seen on Prime could be sometimes more aggressive fan curve, but this isn't going to be an issue if you go over 1k watt (and you should do that for 2990WX + 1 or 2 GPUs) and I personally find it still super silent.
I have used Prime Titanium for file server and Prime Gold for past two workstations I've build. Will also use Prime Gold 1200W this time.

Thanks for that - I think I probably end up going Seasonic too (although I did consider Corsair's HXi range too). I reckon either of those, or even an EVGA or Super Flower would be good, but I need to make sure I buy from someone with good customer service in case of  failure (reading to many customer reviews on the net has probably made me overly cautious).

The cooling options are still limited - Enermax aren't saying when Liqtech II is out, and it might be as unreliable as the first version. Cooler Master have a TR4 AIO due but they don't know seem to when its out either. Right now I'm starting to think going custom with EK might be my best option, and it might be fun?!?


You did tell your girlfriend/wife how much you're spending right :- ) ?

I'm going to wait until I can show her the Corona Benchmark results - I'm sure she'll be impressed enough to not worry about the cost........
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-13, 17:27:03
One friend told me yesterday, while he was building his 2990WX, his shop told him two weeks to get LiqTech II. Swiss shop, so I guess it's around. (I mean it is on market already, but all within prebuild systems).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-13, 21:47:46
Well I'm going to be waiting a few more weeks probably for the case, so maybe by then it will be available. If not, I'll go custom (I've already specced out a loop on the EKWB website).
The irony is I'm sitting here watching my current system really struggle with the work I'm throwing at it while the solution sits idle on my desk in a box :(
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-13, 22:01:26
Yeah that is the reason I went for the EKWB loop as well. It's the only ultimate non-compromise choice and it is available immediately.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-13, 22:32:29
I thought some of you might like this review.

TL,DR: They had shit board with poor mounting issue ( the infamous Foxconn issue). I don't think this extrapolates well to something like MSI MEG which reports none of this.

Heatkiller IV is still the best. If you apply properly TIM and pressure, all other perform the same within single degree.

https://www.xtremerigs.net/2018/08/29/amd-threadripper-cpu-block-review-round-up/11/

(Personally, I am staying with the EKWB unit since I won't have any mounting&pressure issue on MSI MEG and I like the pre-mounted setup)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-14, 18:46:40
Thanks for that - good info, but I think I'll go with EKWB as well, mainly because they have a good system config tool on their website which makes the ordering process less scary for a watercooling novice like me (and I've heard lots of positive feedback about them).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Karolis on 2018-09-16, 11:05:20
Hey guys, sorry to jump in. Juraj, would it be possible for you to post some comparison of viewport performance in 3ds Max between 2990wx and 7980xe? There are a lot of rendering reviews but I'm especially wondering how the 2990wx performs while modelling or navigating the viewport since it has not so good reviews regarding gaming.

Thanks a lot
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-16, 17:56:22
I think I could do that but we only have one 1080ti and other Titan-X(Maxwell) which are unequal and I am bit lazy swapping it. Also, we're still on 2016 which has very smooth viewport as long as scene fits into VRAM (the moment our scenes overflow Veronika's previous 8GB of GTX 1070, the performance loss was brutal...like 95perc. From 100fps to zero fps.

After recent Geforce driver patches, the perfomance seems more than ok.

If anyone is interested I would gladly sell my (delidded) i9 7980XE and swap it for 2990WX :- ). I do not care for where it is slower. If I won't sell it, I will put it under brutal water loop same as the 2990WX.

Hey, pictures tomorrow btw ! Will finish this tonight.

(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=90756;image)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Gewiz90 on 2018-09-16, 18:52:28
Can you share your EKWB part list?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Bzuco on 2018-09-16, 18:58:59
Nice photo, looks like MATTONI inside loop? :))
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-16, 19:02:56
Yeah, after fill :- ) It's not like that anymore, still a bit to bleed out but nothing inside loop.

Will put list of course.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Karolis on 2018-09-16, 20:56:14
Thanks for the reply. How much do you want for the dellided 7980xe? :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-16, 21:40:42
I need to run the most important benchmark, Witcher 3 :- ). But shoot me an email (on my website) if you're interested.

Edit: I love this thing. Tried automatic PBO since I don't know how to set the other two Amper values (I know Kitguru's magic trinity but I don't how he came across them, will try tomorrow), but got it above 5900 CB15 points without sweat (3.8-3.9Ghz) and the fans do not even need to start spinning.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-09-17, 01:08:53
Looks great! Can't wait to get started on my build, those CB points look very promising.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-17, 01:21:10
Yeah, the BIOS less so... Lot of benign changes result in occassional 06 (microcode loading) issue after restart. Simply starting again solves it. No issue during run-time whatsover, no issue with stability. Just the 06 q-code issue.

I found quite few people with that already on forums, doesn't look like there is any more recent uefi file public (13th August is the last one), will not risk their private beta uefi yet.

Edit1: Ok I have July 23rd uefi, will test the August build.
Edit2: Solved microcode loading. Uefi still confusing mess to me. Smart fan speed control will randomly loose on/off, setting jet-engine. It remember the settings under smart fan speed, but not the status. Was able to replicate the issue like five times in row, sending email to support.
Edit3: Nope, not solved. Looks like smart fan speed is enough to bring this board to knees.... back to 06 q-code. Fuck it for tonight.

Can you believe this crap ?

Quote
The fan control is a bit difficult when you overclock your memory. MSI does some 'stuff' to step up the speed of the fans to cool more if your memory speed is over 2750 MHz. It's an undocumented feature (right now) that I only learned about earlier this week after inquiring them about it.

Now this explains all the trouble with A-XMP and Fan control. It doesn't play together. Will try ignoring XMP and set memory manually.
edit: Nope, I have no idea how to keep overclocked memory and Smart fan control. Overclocked memory basically resets the setting to OFF automatically after boot. I will send MSI email they have never seen before.

Look at this crazy advice from MSI forum dev;

Quote
If you want to use smart fan mode while overclocking,
then please change OC settings in BIOS, change fan mode in BIOS, save and exit and do not go back to BIOS.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=307570.0

Which will just result in Q-Code issue anyway. No way to "cheat it". MSI knows better than you ! Christ, they created overclocker's board, which doesn't let you control fucking fans !! And they will even admit it is "design decision".

Last Edit: PC is stable, Memory running at A-XMP profile 2, should be 2800 only but Windows refers to it as 2933 so I don't know. Fans are controlled. Can restart how many times I want, will boot 100perc. each time. Except..

... I can't go into UEFI again without fucking this all over. So I basically have 500 Euro board which is "Set it but please don't touch again". Glorious. Just glorious :- D
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-09-17, 06:42:39
That sounds rather touchy.  Would you get that board again?

I just watched a random review of VRM performance vs an overclocked 2990wx and while the MEG is the best performer, the trusty Taichi did decent:


Thinking I might get my new build on or around Black Friday.  I wish there was a ‘perfect’ motherboard option!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-09-17, 11:25:39
... I can't go into UEFI again without fucking this all over. So I basically have 500 Euro board which is "Set it but please don't touch again". Glorious. Just glorious :- D

Damn, this is pretty crazy. I'm currently getting mine built by overclockers UK with a full EK loop (nice 3 year warranty that includes against leaks), but I don't like the sound of those motherboard issues! What's annoying is that there's literally no viable alternative board if you're looking to OC the 2990wx.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-17, 11:33:42
Fingers crossed Juraj for the build/testing. It seems all 2nd gen boards have bios issues. I was very disappointed last night what i saw what kind of mess  Aorus xtreme bios is


And on top of that windows scheduler stuff..., this build will need a lot of patience.. 

For everybody going 2990wx, Wendel from Lvl1 tech have plenty of good info about 2990wx and numa/threading/scheduling stuff and how to optimize the performance. I tried process lasso on my current mashine and definitely will keep it running for new 2990wx build.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-17, 12:23:27
That sounds rather touchy.  Would you get that board again?

Sadly I would, I do not see the results of the other boards come even close.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-17, 15:15:25
i just leave this here , 2019 AMD EPIC 64 core, 12k Cinebench score

https://www.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/122222-amd-7nm-64c128t-epyc-benchmark-leaks/
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-17, 15:30:16
Looks pretty nice :- ).

Just received DHL info that Cyberport is sending me another MSI x399 the one I originally ordered one month ago, that they delived B350 instead and I asked for refund by letter, email, everything...
Last time I am ordering from Germany, the communication barrier is way too strong...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: burnin on 2018-09-18, 20:57:34
Good & valuable info about Windows slow down...

"Threadripper 2990WX Performance Regressions? Not so fast..." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSSAFqzbKgg) (Level1Techs@YouTube)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Radim Razzak on 2018-09-19, 21:12:43
i just leave this here , 2019 AMD EPIC 64 core, 12k Cinebench score

https://www.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/122222-amd-7nm-64c128t-epyc-benchmark-leaks/

For those speaking czech there is an article which explains why this is most likely to be a fake...

https://www.cnews.cz/amd-7nm-procesory-zen2-epyc-ryzen-3000-cas-vydani
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: vansan on 2018-09-21, 11:50:30
So what you guys think about Noctua NH U14S TR4 with addional fan?
Is it enough for 2990wx to work without throttling, or better wait for more powerful air cooler?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-21, 11:57:08
I probably suggest against doing it. I know how my i9 7980XE had to keep full spin (1500rpms) of dual fans on much bigger NH-D15.

Is there still no review of the other one ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: vansan on 2018-09-21, 13:26:59
I probably suggest against doing it. I know how my i9 7980XE had to keep full spin (1500rpms) of dual fans on much bigger NH-D15.

Is there still no review of the other one ?
I'd buy Silver Arrow TR4, if it ever exist, can't find it anywhere.
By the way, Juraj, what reliable AIO water cooler would you suggest?
I'm not going to overclock cpu.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-21, 13:43:24
It's not like you can choose, there is exactly one AIO available, in two revisions :- ).

Enermax LiqTech 360 II. According to Enermax rep I spoke to, even the I version should have addressed issue but there is no way of knowing what rev you are buying, so buying second version is the only safe bet.
Let's presume it's now without catastrophic faults :- ).

If you go this way, I highly suggest swapping the fans for latest Noctua A12. Sadly these are not available in black (F12 is) but they are super powerful/silent.

EDIT:

OK, looks like there is now also this. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13385/asus-unveils-rog-ryujin-aio-lcses-for-amds-cpus

Comes with Industrial version of Noctua F12. Not a bad deal.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-23, 12:47:03
OK, as of right now, I can't suggest MSI MEG x399 AT ALL. And I am not sure I can suggest buying 2990WX until there is better board out there.

There is zero bios support. Last public one was 6 weeks ago ! I have big troubles with repeated boot into microcache loading with no apparent solution.

Fun fact: The recent Windows update came with microcode (yup, the same one in July) and capped the turbos severly from 4.0Ghz to 3.5Ghz. Uninstalling the patch and deleting mcupdate dlls (shitty procedure as you need to disable trustedinstaller in Win10) did not return anything. Manually forcing higher turbos (OC) in uefi only causes another mysterious boot issue, C5. Yup, there is no such thing as C5 Q-code in manual as of now.

You guys have no idea how disappointed I am in this. I've no idea what to actually do. Should I replace the board with some basic stuff like Taichi until x499 is here after winter ? Is x499 even coming ? Or wait who knows how long until MSI bothers to actually publish new uefi fix.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-23, 18:28:22
I was given beta bios. It seemingly fixed my issues for now. I don't want to say it prematurely though...

Anyway, do not buy stuff which needs private beta bios for sakes.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: burnin on 2018-09-23, 20:12:33
 Building - TR 2990WX Programmers Workstation: Linus Torvalds' Edition (sort of)! (https://youtu.be/JvuDrrFHrhQ) (Level1Techs)
Assuming you wish to have 24/7 operating machine without hiccups for the next couple of years.
Headache free ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-23, 20:22:37
Building - TR 2990WX Programmers Workstation: Linus Torvalds' Edition (sort of)! (https://youtu.be/JvuDrrFHrhQ) (Level1Techs)
Assuming you wish to have 24/7 operating machine without hiccups for the next couple of years.
Headache free ;)


Are you trying to be funny or what ? I fail to see the sarcasm.
 Read his description:


Quote
Far as we know The TX4 bios is otherwise not available anywhere else. The fixes here will be integrated with the updated AGESA in just a few weeks, hopefully!


So he is using private beta bios as well to even get it working. Look up the Aorus Extreme review on previous page to see what "headache free" machine it makes for.

And good luck with 24/7 for years with the Enermax AIO...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-09-23, 20:47:45
I was given beta bios. It seemingly fixed my issues for now. I don't want to say it prematurely though...

Anyway, do not buy stuff which needs private beta bios for sakes.

That’s insane and super frustrating for sure.  I’m waiting on the sidelines hoping a clear solution emerges.

I guess what’s unclear to me is the quantifiable difference if you were to go with a Taichi.  How much less of an ovecock could you get?  4.0 vs 4.1?  And do people ever watercool their VRMs with an aftermarket waterblock?

Anyway, too bad the MEG has been so frustrating!  And yeah...never again will I buy Enermax.  I’m thinking my 2990 build will be custom water.  I had good luck with that a few years back.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-24, 09:40:52
It's definitely not 4.0 vs 4.1. Both are only imho reachable by MEG & Zenith to be fully stable under actual load, and Zenith only with heavy air cooling towards VRM.

Water cooling VRM heatsink isn't that effective actually as the issue with them being overload stands. The tests on previous page (done in open bench) show big discrepancy between heatsink and the core temps. Even with fans blowing, they approach 120C a point where it starts to be shaky.

But I don't think that's issue, it's more than powerful if you settle somewhere between 3.6/3.7 @ 350W +/- and with good airflow can keep VRM passive again. And I don't know, but last thing I would want is 4cm fan spinning inside the case :- ).


Btw, the water loop is so silent (it's inaudible) that this is first time I only hear the PSU..and its rattling industrial fan kind of throws me off :- ). Maybe Seasonic should stop using the fluid bearings.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-24, 10:45:31
Hey Juraj,  seems like this 2990wx build we do is more bleeding edge then we expected :/ , I still did not assembled my, i`m missing the case. I was going for evolv x, but i ditched it yesterday lol,  and ordered Lian o11- Air from caseking,  in favor of better positioning of 2 x 360 rads and additional 6x120fans for better airflow(GPUS + aorus VRMs). GA updated bios for Aorus extreme few days back,  hopefully with some of the stuff Wendel mentioned, agesa, governor, voltages, bios oc stuff...

Looks like i`m going to need full week holiday to get this build up and running..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: vansan on 2018-09-24, 11:13:43
I really appriciate you guys for sharing both positive and negative experience with your builds.
Also very interested in your experience of organising incase airflow.
To get more cool air inside I chose FRACTAL DESIGN Define S case, to move all hdd's to back side of the case.
My build with asrock taichi is still on paper, waiting for my order in first dayz of october.
Still no desition on cooler, hopefully new asus AIO's will arrive in shops soon, as they cool VRM's too.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-24, 11:54:47
Some pics.

The total airflow is as follow: Frontal 360mm tall 60mm thick Rad is in intake push-pull with 6x 120mm Noctua F12 PWM running between 200rpm (idle) to 600rpm while rendering. Top radiator is 420mm tall 45mm thick with 3x 140mm Noctua A14 PWM running between 200rpm (idle) to 600rpm while rendering.

For air-flow bottom case are 2x 120mm Noctua S12 PWM running 400rpm (idle) to 600rpm (rendering). Rear exhaust is 140mm Noctua A14 PWM running 400rpm idle to 600rpm while rendering.


The setup is positive-heavy due to case being open, so to avoid dust buildup. Same reason for pull-only top radiator, it's easier to clean and doesn't obstruct the board for easy service/replacement.
(bottom fans are not installed in this pics, I was still waiting for them. Rad fans might need 800rpm for overclock but due to waiting for stable bios, it's not necessary at this time. Even at 400rpm, the CPU cores are 56C while rendering at stock.)
(if you find the bottom tube awkward, know that is for easy adding for GPU later. Less hassle, no need to add tubing).

Why the strange case :- ) ? It's the biggest one that would still fit under the table to allow for two thick rad without obstructing the tall VRM heatsink on MEG. It can house 2x 60mm 360mm rads easily (or even thicker front!).
It's not minimalistic but the glass is actually almost full-black, not see-through. I just post-produced the photos to better show internal :- ). In life it's ok to look at, almost enjoyable in fact.

(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=91055;image)

(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=91057;image)

(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=91059;image)



No RGB was seen :- ). Although I did take one pic of it heh.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-24, 12:22:23
Juraj, how did you setup your fans cables + control?  3 to 1 Y splitter and then dirrectly to board , and each rad separately for more control? or both rads are on one PWM control cable to cpu FAN?  i`m going to have 12 fans in my, maybe in need to look for some fan hub..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-24, 12:25:56
Hey Juraj,  seems like this 2990wx build we do is more bleeding edge then we expected :/ , I still did not assembled my, i`m missing the case. I was going for evolv x, but i ditched it yesterday lol,  and ordered Lian o11- Air from caseking,  in favor of better positioning of 2 x 360 rads and additional 6x120fans for better airflow(GPUS + aorus VRMs). GA updated bios for Aorus extreme few days back,  hopefully with some of the stuff Wendel mentioned, agesa, governor, voltages, bios oc stuff...

Looks like i`m going to need full week holiday to get this build up and running..


That's pretty smart case ! I did not even consider these wide cases to get around the table height limitation. This one seems to do it right by being one&half thick and not the oppressively looking double-wide cases.

Interesting fact is that after putting the PC together, I installed new bios (one six week old from August, but still newer than 10 week old from July the board shipped from) which had exactly one thing, the AGESA update. That did not help sadly my case, but the recent beta bios (one week old) seems to fixed everything for now.


Juraj, how did you setup your fans cables + control?  3 to 1 Y splitter and then dirrectly to board , and each rad separately for more control? or both rads are on one PWM control cable to cpu FAN?  i`m going to have 12 fans in my, maybe in need to look for some fan hub..


I went with big splitters connected directly to PSU as MOLEX (since board limitations basically allow only 3to1) and only PWM controllers attached to board.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: vansan on 2018-09-24, 14:46:32
Juraj, thank you!
I really miss youtube video, where the process of assebling workstation like yours is recorded.
It's beautiful!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-24, 14:51:42
I am way too awkward to make a youtube video, and I was too busy to record everything properly but I did few timelapses where I build it with my friend Martin. Maybe I'll find some time to stitch it together :- )
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: burnin on 2018-09-24, 20:33:52
Are you trying to be funny or what ? I fail to see the sarcasm.
I see, i expressed myself poorly. No sarcasm, but thankful for all your efforts to save us from 'headaches'.
I sincerely apologize.

BTW. Great setup. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: spadestick on 2018-09-25, 06:30:54
Any thoughts on the new RTX Turing Architecture?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Luke on 2018-09-26, 07:55:05
@juraj how does it run? is it everything you hoped for?

can you summarise/list the components in one easy to read post? I've trawled this thread and tbh get quite lost in the tech talk...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-26, 11:28:45
Yes I plan to do, was just too busy. Easy to post tidbits between nervous breakdown for 6k machine functioning as expected :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Zray on 2018-09-26, 13:18:39
Yes I plan to do, was just too busy. Easy to post tidbits between nervous breakdown for 6k machine functioning as expected :- ).
hi, what is your msi pci card?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-26, 13:42:25
Yes I plan to do, was just too busy. Easy to post tidbits between nervous breakdown for 6k machine functioning as expected :- ).
hi, what is your msi pci card?

It's bundled PCIe expander card with four m.2 slots for PCIe SSDs. It's big overkill in terms of cooling :- ) But since there is empty space there why not.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-09-28, 13:22:53
For everybody that is tempted to go for Enermax liqtech tr4 AIO

Just don`t do it, TR II have leaking issues as well....

here are few posts from official US Enermax support:

https://hardforum.com/threads/enermax-liqtech-tr4-aio-liquid-cpu-coolers-review.1945204/page-4#post-1043848370
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-09-28, 14:28:48
Oh wow, well that seals the deal for AIOs.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Zray on 2018-10-01, 09:19:37
Yes I plan to do, was just too busy. Easy to post tidbits between nervous breakdown for 6k machine functioning as expected :- ).
hi, what is your msi pci card?

It's bundled PCIe expander card with four m.2 slots for PCIe SSDs. It's big overkill in terms of cooling :- ) But since there is empty space there why not.
Thanks. Does your computer work well now? I am waiting 2970x :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-01, 13:52:20
It seemingly seems so :- ).

Except latest Corona daily (couldn't test normal build) only uses 30perc. computing power during UHD Cache phase compared to i9. Not sure what to make of that..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Fluss on 2018-10-01, 15:22:46
Except latest Corona daily (couldn't test normal build) only uses 30perc. computing power during UHD Cache phase compared to i9. Not sure what to make of that..

It behaves the same way here on dual xeon 2696 v4. Not sure it is related to the amd chip
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-01, 15:40:16
Yeah I am not sure either, just throwing that out. I have the same daily build on my i9 7980XE and that one uses 100perc. and thus computes the UHD much faster (yes we're talking 2 vs 4 seconds but still ;- )
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Gewiz90 on 2018-10-03, 05:15:41
Would you recommend it?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-03, 13:07:36
The 2990WX ? Yes, there isn't anything better on market and you shouldn't expect the 28C Intel any soon (22C is coming to market only in near future, and it will have same performance as the 18 core as what you get with more cores Intel will eat in heat reducing its overclocking potential. They are all just rebranded xeons, no way to go around the physics).

Is it living up to its full potential ? No, but we knew that but it's still very fast where it matters. But I will continue to wonder if there isn't some way for Corona to optimize the usage of Threadripper or AMD in general as platform. It has better performance in other renderers (even Vray).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-03, 17:53:56
ok, all components ready, lets do this :)

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-03, 17:59:00
I know what I forgot to write you... 1L of fluid wasn't enough for the loop in my case (it ended up being 1.5 I think) I would suggest to order another concentrate just in case.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lupaz on 2018-10-04, 02:24:25
A side question:
How many times faster would you say 2990WX is compared to ryzen 7 1800x with corona?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-05, 00:11:22
Getting some stuff in.  Front and bottom fans next.

due manufacturing precision EK vs Lian li, i was not able to one last crew on side radiator fan, holes does not align.

I was a bit disappointing that EKs Vardar fans does not come with any rubber feet or other vibration dampening system.

i kept one of the NVME drives under original Aorus heasink, and for second slot i used EKs heatsink. I wonder what`s the temperature difference going to be..

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-05, 11:49:36
That's totally fine, I didn't order enough long screws so three of my fans are mounted only by two opposing screws :- ). Thankfully though even the Chromax Noctuas do have anti-vibration parts in package.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-05, 21:37:16
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-cpu-threadripper-2970wx-2920x,37895.html

Quote
including a new Dynamic Local Mode that automatically migrates applications to CPU cores with direct memory access.

Yay, let's see how this will work.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-05, 22:43:14
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-cpu-threadripper-2970wx-2920x,37895.html

Quote
including a new Dynamic Local Mode that automatically migrates applications to CPU cores with direct memory access.

Yay, let's see how this will work.

That looks promising!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 13:37:20
For anyone using the 2990WX (Juraj), are you experiencing any system stability issues?

If I begin to render, I get to about 10 mins in and my screens are going completely black, power buttons on the case do not respond and the system needs a hard reset via the PSU switch on the back of my case. Motherboard displays a red LED which reads 'CPU' - This appears to have been an issue with the 1st gen Ryzen chips but I'm not having any luck finding the solution.

Latest bios installed, chipset drivers direct from AMD, all other drivers up to date and Windows 10 fully up to date too.

Obvious next steps include taking the CPU and/or motherboard back to the supplier but this doesn't guarantee that my problem will disappear, it might just reappear with the replacement parts.

Any issues with your system?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 13:41:50
No, absolutely no issues since I updated to 1.25 for the MEG board. Perfectly stable rendering 24/7. I've only set PBO to 350W though for CPU, will give it back to 500-600W with another revision of bios, right now I am bit scared of it. Although running benchmarks at 500W (3.95-4.05Ghz all-core) no stability issues were observed either.

What board do you have ? What PSU, are you monitoring all temperatures with HWinfo (esp. VRM) ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 14:00:27
Full specs for the Threadripper build:

CPU - 2990WX
GPU - Nvidia GTX1080Ti
MOBO - MSI X399 Sli-Plus (MS 7B09)
RAM - Corsair Vengeance CMU64GX4M4A2666C16 (64GB)
PSU - EVGA 1000 Watt GQ Gold Hybrid Modular
HD -  Samsung SSD 970 EVO 500GB (NvME)
Cooler - Thermaltake Riing 3.0 240mm AIO

Temps never really exceed 65c, monitored with CPUID HWmonitor

I haven't touched PBO (only just searched it online to see what it was) Is this something I should be looking to change?

Thanks
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 14:11:50
It looks in order, except for the cooler. Are you sure none of the cores exceeds 65 ? Your AIO cpu block doesn't cover the heatspreader, it definitely isn't 2990WX compatible cooler.

But I am not saying that is it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 14:19:23
It may reach 67c on occasion but honestly the cooler seems to be doing a good job, even considering the lack of full coverage.

I am just looking at the PBO options in bios, if I set it to manual I was expecting to see some options for specifying a number but it doesn’t give me any. Do I set this number in the Ryzen master tool once enabled in Bios. I don’t actually know what this is or what it does to be perfectly honest.

Thanks
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 14:36:12
PPT, TDC and EDC are all maxed out at 250, 215 and 300 respectively. I’m in creator mode and these are the limits, I’m unable to type in a higher number - how did you get it to 350w?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 14:42:28
I don't know if individual boards support different limits. In manual PBO mode in bios, I can specify anything and the MSI MEG limit is 700W. I didn't try Ryzen Master yet, it probably is helpful when trying different setups but ultimately it's better to set it up from boot.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 15:21:32
Apparently bios is the only way to do this, Ryzen Master is pretty useless to be honest, all values are capped at AMD’s recommendations (250w max for PPT)

My main concern is why I should be needing to change any of this stuff when all I am trying to do is use the chip at stock speeds to render. I haven’t even looked at overclocking as the stability is non-existent at 3ghz.

The lack of knowledge from my retailer regarding this chip and the x399 system is pretty frustrating, I might have to return both the cpu and motherboard and replace them with intel components but that would be a big performance loss and probably cost the same.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 16:07:59
You shouldn't need to touch it at all. PBO is AMD's way of overclocking by simply unlocking the power limits. 250W is the upper limit of what 2990WX will require at stock. It would not be very stable without serious air flow to cool down the limited VRM phases of your board.


Can you check if both 12V leads (in upper left corner) are connected from PSU ? Just to rule out your system not getting enough juice.
Is your system stable if you run your memory at default clock without AXMP profile (AMXP OFF)?


MSI has very shit default bios settings. Make sure their GamingMode/OC Genie/etc..(it's called differently in every board) is turned SW(Software) and 0 (Turned OFF). It's in upper left corner in bios.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 16:27:00
Both CPU 12v leads are plugged in. System is absolutely fine until rendering, I could be using Photoshop or After Effects etc all day without issue but when I try set my animation off rendering it begins to cause instability, I have to manually switch off the psu as nothing else responds.

XMP has been disabled since the day I installed everything, I was hoping to enable it once everything seemed stable but I haven’t reached that point yet.

I’ve disabled the OC genie stuff too, and just as an extra step I’ve switched the physical switch to 0 on my mobo as well, although it is currently in SW (bios) mode.

Windows isn’t reading any errors or giving much useful info out in the reliability manager or event logs.

I’m thinking it’s a bad motherboard but could just as well be CPU.

A few years ago I had issues with the Asus Suite III and my old 5960x, the asus utility was trying to do things which Windows wasn't allowing (permissions etc) and it caused BSOD many times. I thought maybe this was a similar issue but even after uninstalling any kind of AMD utility the problem persists.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 16:48:10
Currently running a stability test through Aida64.

CPU temp has not yet exceeded 68c at 100% load, 10 mins in and it is fixed at this value which suggests to me that the cooler is doing its job well enough.

Max power so far is 235w, this reaches 250w when rendering which could be an indicator of what is happening with the system hang/freeze/lockup etc. Could it be that the CPU is demanding more power but is being prevented from getting it by the bios settings, through which I am unable to exceed 250w.

Surely this can't be a Max/Corona issue, all the other stress tests I put this machine through suggest the build is super-stable but rendering is completely out of the question it seems.

Other thoughts I've considered, when rendering my animation, the CPU will obviously be at 100% when rendering but will then drop substantially whilst calculating geometry/scene parsing. Could there be an issue with the CPU picking itself up once the cores have relaxed for a moment?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 17:00:39
But how is the temperature spread ? The cooler doesn't cover all of those four dies well so the cores on the outside can get disproportionally hotter. It's not unusual to get difference of 20C between different cores. That is basically the deal with my i9 which has small heatspreader, but the difference can be even bigger with the massive heatspreader of TR4.

I would run Prime95 which has AVX, it better simulates Corona's load.


Could there be an issue with the CPU picking itself up once the cores have relaxed for a moment?

The spike ? I doubt that. I do find Corona's pre-rendering to be poorly using CPU's performance though and this is even worse for some reason on Threadripper. Like I mentioned above, I only get 30perc. usage during UHD calculations.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 17:03:14
I will give Prime95 a run now, thanks.

I've attached the Aida64 test result in case there's anything which catches your eye - it was only a 20 minute test but this exceeds the amount of time I can render for without issue.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 17:23:45
It seems neither Aida64 or Prime95 (currently still running) will push things to the 250w limit (see attached) - it only seems to go 90% of the way there, around 237w.

Corona seems to push this up to 250w immediately, I have not been able to crash the system running any stress test so far, not once.

Really confused as to what might be causing the rendering issues, I am currently on a 3.0 daily build and will revert back to 2.0 for further testing but I can't see that being the cause - worth a check though whilst I'm scratching my head for other ideas.

Thanks for your input so far Juraj, really appreciate it ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 17:32:18
Hmm, I really don't know. So Corona does shoot to 250W, but that itself doesn't crash it if I understand, it's only after certain while (10 +/- minutes) when it does ? That would rule out power limits and point more towards cooling.

I can feel the frustration, when I've setup our 2990WX which we really needed at the time and it didn't even work with the public bios I was close to insanity. Every wasted day counted, 5k euro spent and shit is not working. If the private beta bios didn't solve my issues I was prepared to start with parts swap (first motherboard).


Hope this will be solved for you. One more try, maybe contact them through website ticket as well, there might be beta bios likewise.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 17:47:01
I think that's the next logical step, contacting AMD and seeking their advice.

My retailer who I get all my parts from are happy to run Aida64 and Prime95 tests on the chip but as I've already done those many times I don't think I would gain anything. They're not going to render my animation for me and keep an eye on it whilst it fails, would be useful if they did but this could well happen with another 2990wx if they were to replace it.

I'll let you know how I get on in case it helps with other Corona users looking to build a 2nd gen Ryzen machine!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 17:51:17
I would strongly suggest for builders of 2990WX to stick to one of the two only boards designed to support it from the ground, MSI MEG and Aorus Xtreme. These are still imperfect and with poor bios, but they still stand out among the others.

I wonder if (and if it's actually coming in January, at least the reveal) X599 will change this.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 18:03:03
Forgot to ask what cooler you are running on the 2990WX? I can order one and see if it has any effect, if not I can always send it back within 14 days
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 18:12:18
My build is on page 8, it's custom water loop.

There isn't much choice right now:

-Single available AIO is Thermaltake Liqtech 360 II, but as you can read two pages ago, even this most recent iteration is having leaking issues. Big nope.
-Some upcoming AIOs like Coolermaster and Asus have full coverage of heatspreader...but this is bit false alarm. This is just additional copper plate on top of the same asetec above. It's better...but not as good.

So outside of custom water loop, Air coolers are actually the more sensible choice.

-Noctua UH14 TR4. At stock settings, would be ok. Potential 320W rate (at high RPMs).
-Silver Arrow TR4. Looks like it's finally here, has more heatpipes than Noctua and is considerably larger. A true alternative to non-existing NH-D15. Except no reviews... outside of two crappy youtube ones. Here is one:

https://geizhals.eu/thermalright-silver-arrow-tr4-100700418-a1848365.html?t=alle&plz=&va=b&vl=de&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&v=l


And well that's it, nothing else.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 18:15:28
Very useful info, thanks so much!

Just ordered a Noctua UH14, I will look into custom loops at some point, once this animation is out of the way I have hundreds more images to get through so I just need something stable for now.

Huge thanks for your help so far!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 19:41:30
So I can render a still image for hours, no issues at all!

5 frames into an animation, complete system failure - I’m clueless as to what is going on
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 22:07:17
Me again ;)

So I found a Reddit thread which discusses a 68c temp limit for the 2990WX - had no idea this existed before building this machine
(https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9gidma/amd_precision_boost_overdrive_pbo_ramblings/)

As my CPU was hitting this AMD specified limit, the chip was failing and the motherboard had stopped communicating with it completely, I'm guessing some kind of fail-safe in the 2990WX causes this but it is not publicised anywhere and has driven me crazy for weeks!

I have now disabled every possible option for running this chip above the 3ghz base-clock, it has an auto feature which takes it up to the 250w limit but the temperature limit counteracts this and causes system failure.

Max wattage for the CPU is now capped at around 215w (250w limit) and the benefit is that my temperatures have yet to exceed 60c - and guess what, my animation is chugging along nicely.

Don't let any of these issues put you off building a machine with this chip - when it works it really is unbeatable value for money. Just be aware that there are a ton of built-in functions which try to push this chip to increase speeds, but then those same built-in functions have to fight against the temperature limit of this massive chip, and that's where the failures begin to happen.

Unless I can work out how to A) increase my total wattage allowed to be used by the CPU above 250w, and B) keep my temperatures below 68c (apparently this isn't currently possible due to AMD's own overprotective restraints) then I will have to use this chip at it's lowest and slowest speed of 3ghz.

So happy I can now leave the room and let my animation fly knowing I won't come back to black screens and an unresponsive box of heat!

PS - also had to lower RAM speeds from 2666mhz to 2133mhz - again resulting in slower rendering but at least it works
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-06, 23:36:17
I didn't know of this, hmm, surprising. Nonetheless, it should throttle, not crash.

To fully bypass PBO you can set fixed multiplier. But unless you fix it to 4.0 Ghz for which you require very solid cooling, you will loose single-thread performance as I didn't see option to set multiplier for different amount of cores (like I can do for my i9 with Asus uefi).

I think we moved into territory where top HEDT chips like 2990WX, i9 7980XE,etc. will simply require lot of juice (lot of VRM phases) and cooling. This is one place where these builds sort of fail compared to dual-cpu server type of workstations. Now Threadripper is actually very solid in terms of TDP, the 250W is actually 250W, my i9 stock is 280+ W (so much for claimed 165W, which only goes for base clocks that never actually apply).

The upcoming Z399 Intels (22c and maybe the mythological 28C ? But I doubt the latter) will be even worse. Regular cooling need not apply..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: fraine7 on 2018-10-06, 23:44:51
Good to know.

Lowering my clock speeds has allowed the system to stabilise and I can only think that the turbo features built in to the bios were pushing too hard. A throttle as opposed to a complete failure would have been fine, I would have been happy with that.

Could it be that my ram voltages were being pushed too high and causing the failure? The motherboard was displaying a red LED indicating CPU error but if the ram had failed then the CPU would naturally become unresponsive and force the motherboard to illuminate the LED.

I really don’t know enough about all the under the hood tuning features but it’s rendering now and until my knowledge is substantial enough to start playing around I’ll have to leave things as they are.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: vansan on 2018-10-08, 11:12:12
Finally my CPU arrived, built my rig and now I have statistics from 2 workstations with similar hardware:
AMD 2990wx, Asrock X399 Taichi, NZXT Kraken X72, 4x16 DDR4 2933 ram modules, Fractal Design Define S case.

No overclocking, CPU temperature is 62-64 on rendering, clocks 3.2-3.3 GHz, all stable.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-08, 11:56:20
Happy rendering, hope the shit works :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2018-10-08, 16:18:40
Really sad to hear some people are still having problem with the 2990WX but I guess all will be ironed in the next few weeks, maybe months. Seems that the TR 2 launch has the same bad start as Ryzen when it was first introduced.
Juraj what time did you manage to get in corona render benchmark with the new machine?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-08, 17:48:39
Stock settings (+/- 3.3Ghz) = 39 seconds, PBO auto (+/- 450W @3.95Ghz = 36 seconds). Manual PBO (500W @3.95- 4.05) also...36 seconds.

It does not scale that well. Because I have overkill cooling (1400W heh, the fans don't even need to spin at full overclock) I believe I can successfully ignore PBO and set the multiplier for x42 and get maybe 33 seconds (I did not set it this way because it's running on Beta bios and I need this PC to be super stable right now) But what is funny is that by this, it has close to 6200 CB15 score, super close to top platinum xeons, but those will reach easily into twenties.
So Corona can't utilize Threadripper as well. Some things to consider is that the benchmark isn't linear, it still have considerable pre-render phase and right now my 2990WX only runs by 30perc. during them, slowing stuff like UHD,etc..

So it's really good, but it's not great. It scales extremely well in some other "benchmarks" I run, namely Marvelous Designer and PTGui 360 stitching. I did not have time to run Vray. We're in super busy work phase, I had to set it up and immidiatelly get it to work for Veronik.

I would still suggest it 100perc. It's much more affordable even compared to OEM/ES 8173M/8180M at their best ebay price, and absolutely superior in single threaded operations which I believe will only improve with the upcoming dynamic mode (automatic process lasso/scheduling in Ryzen master utility). But there is some wasted potential and I can only wonder if it's due to memory (plausible, since 2133 vs 2933 yielded drastic difference) or partly Corona's architecture.

(I believe the dynamic mode would alleviate the issues with Corona's prerender phase as I believe this is where memory bandwidth becomes issue. This set of processes are not multithreading well from start to finish so as long as they will be ofshored to cores with direct memory access, perhaps it can shave some time on benchmark. It will not have any impact on longer rendering time).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-10-08, 19:17:58
Hi Juraj - Just as another datapoint, my threadripper 1950X (OC'ed to 3.88ghz) hits 93% usage during the first few seconds of UHD Cache and then drops to 80-82% for the remainder.  For displacement it's lower....50-60%.  30% is pretty low but maybe it's the ratio of processing power to RAM changing how perceptible the bottleneck is?

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-08, 19:31:06
I wish I would know what's behind it. In practical terms, it's difference of 2 seconds versus 3 seconds (i9 7980XE vs 2990WX), but it can potentially hinder interactive performance. Surely doesn't feel that way but still.
We're talking daily builds so maybe it's tied to it but I don't have time to try regular build.

It reminds me how parsing on nodes (2698v4 Xeons) during Distributed rendering is much slower than when run directly from 3dsMax and it mostly seems because it barely uses available performance in multithreaded fashion.
The whole precomp phase is bottleneck, but more so on Threadripper than i9.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: astrofalcon on 2018-10-09, 02:24:03
https://goo.gl/DPdd5x

I have the new threadripper 2 32 core and it's been great does run a little hot but nothing that can't be tamed with a good cooler.

- Shawn
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: arqrenderz on 2018-10-09, 04:54:48
We need a new benchmark scene, we need to run it for at least 5-10 minutes and have a # of passes as the end result.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-10-09, 06:23:16
I wish I would know what's behind it. In practical terms, it's difference of 2 seconds versus 3 seconds (i9 7980XE vs 2990WX), but it can potentially hinder interactive performance. Surely doesn't feel that way but still.
We're talking daily builds so maybe it's tied to it but I don't have time to try regular build.

It reminds me how parsing on nodes (2698v4 Xeons) during Distributed rendering is much slower than when run directly from 3dsMax and it mostly seems because it barely uses available performance in multithreaded fashion.
The whole precomp phase is bottleneck, but more so on Threadripper than i9.

I bet you're right, that it's the RAM bottleneck.  That's why the bottleneck is ~2x as bad with 2x as many cores (1950x vs 2990wx).  Although the weird thing is I wouldn't think of UHD Cache as being memory intensive.  Displacement I could understand.  But this is just me rambling about things that I don't really have a grasp of.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-09, 10:24:17
Will do another set of benchmarks in one or two months when : Dynamic mode will come to Ryzen master, Stable public bios available for MSI MEG, current poor Windows updates stabilize, with public version of Corona v3. Will do it at fixed x42 multiplier.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-09, 10:30:00
Damn MSI, now that they learned how to actually design proper HEDT board with their alpha version AMD version, they come up with much improved Intel's counterpart.

Look how MSI MEG looks for x299 platform: Phases aren't in single long row, thus space for 4 dual-slot GPUs suddenly became available even for EATX without going EEB (yes the CPU socket size makes for difference too, but this could be designed around).
Dual 8-pin becomes tripple 8-pin, testament to how actually powerhungry the LGA2066 chips are.

I think i'll buy this to my i9 7980XE so it's more solid overclocker.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/msi-announces-x299-meg-creation.html
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-09, 12:45:31
Damn MSI, now that they learned how to actually design proper HEDT board with their alpha version AMD version, they come up with much improved Intel's counterpart.

Look how MSI MEG looks for x299 platform: Phases aren't in single long row, thus space for 4 dual-slot GPUs suddenly became available even for EATX without going EEB (yes the CPU socket size makes for difference too, but this could be designed around).
Dual 8-pin becomes tripple 8-pin, testament to how actually powerhungry the LGA2066 chips are.

I think i'll buy this to my i9 7980XE so it's more solid overclocker.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/msi-announces-x299-meg-creation.html

nice board indeed, and properly spreaded 4 PCI slots :)

I just started to run my leak tests.... I really like the cable management on 0-11 Air, all hidden in the back, and i can even throw and extra fan on the mobo backplate:) I used few sleeved cables too, for PCIe and 24pin mobo  because original cables from 1600w psu were too rigid..
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-09, 15:16:04
I actually desperately tried to get few sleeved cables myself when I realized I almost can't bend properly the 24pin :- ).

Looks very good !!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-10, 09:47:52
I`m up and running. All smooth. After 8h testing/rendering, not a single blue screen / crash.

Booted right away, updated bios, no issues.

All 8 G.Skill sticks work fine on factory XMP profile, 128GB  at 2933. kit is F4-2933C14Q2-128GTZRX , timing  14-14-14-34 .

Performance wise, tested multiple PBO configs from 250 to 500, and i settled on 400/400/400 for now. With that i get good single core performance boosts to 4.1-4.2Ghz, and for multicore I get 5750 in cinebench.  Aorus VRM at this settings, after 1h rendering never peaked above 100C.(with extra fan on the backplate of the mobo)

Asus Hyper m.2 x16 works perfect on x399 too, With 2x2TB Samsung EVO 970, i get 6800MB/s read, and 5000MB/s write.  Raid needs to be setup in BIOS, 16 PCI slot set to 4/4/4/4 and AMD raid driver installed at windows installation.

V-ray bench - 24 seconds
Corona Bench - 36 seconds

Only issue with EKWB vardar fans, from 9 of them, 2 suck, one ignores PWM(maybe broken cable), and other one is noisy af. But damm, that orange/red heat looks good on them :) will return and replace.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Zray on 2018-10-11, 14:24:17
I`m up and running. All smooth. After 8h testing/rendering, not a single blue screen / crash.

Booted right away, updated bios, no issues.

All 8 G.Skill sticks work fine on factory XMP profile, 128GB  at 2933. kit is F4-2933C14Q2-128GTZRX , timing  14-14-14-34 .

Performance wise, tested multiple PBO configs from 250 to 500, and i settled on 400/400/400 for now. With that i get good single core performance boosts to 4.1-4.2Ghz, and for multicore I get 5750 in cinebench.  Aorus VRM at this settings, after 1h rendering never peaked above 100C.(with extra fan on the backplate of the mobo)

Asus Hyper m.2 x16 works perfect on x399 too, With 2x2TB Samsung EVO 970, i get 6800MB/s read, and 5000MB/s write.  Raid needs to be setup in BIOS, 16 PCI slot set to 4/4/4/4 and AMD raid driver installed at windows installation.

V-ray bench - 24 seconds
Corona Bench - 36 seconds

Only issue with EKWB vardar fans, from 9 of them, 2 suck, one ignores PWM(maybe broken cable), and other one is noisy af. But damm, that orange/red heat looks good on them :) will return and replace.


Great performance
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-11, 21:23:19
I was doing some  more testing, and i found new sweet spot for my build. Running manual x 38 at 1.1 volt.

Scores 5870 in cinebench, eats only 290W max. That means i can run all fans on 30% speed, aka silence. 6h render run at this settings, stable, 56c max temp on CPU, and 92 on VRM.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-22, 15:18:19
So my MSI MEG Creation board died last week (I'm in the nightmare process of trying to get it RMA'd by MSI).In the meantime, I need to replace it with another, preferably non-MSI board. Can anyone here recommend one? I was originally trying to avoid using the gen 1 motherboards with the 2990wx, but at the moment I think I'll go with the ASUS Zenith Extreme, so looking for real-world use cases as oppose to a review that uses it for a day or 2.
Oh, and if anyone who has the MEG wants to try their luck with BIOS v26, I was sent it as part of their tech supports efforts to get the board working. Couldn't tell you what it fixes or breaks, but if anyone wants to try it then do ask.
Cheers
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-10-23, 13:20:32
Sorry to hear that. What happen the the board btw? any indications?  Did you had it overclocked? I`m running Aorus Extreme, so far so good. Updated bios twice, all was fine, even Raid0 data stayed intact. Its ok board, but have it`s limits in VRM. I would not recommend overclocking it for 24/7 rendering use unless you can manage/mod the VRM cooling.  I`ve removed those "nice looking"  but useless plastic covers from VRM and i have 10 degree lower temps.  I added extra fan and got another 15 degrees lower temp. 25c difference that`s just crazy, and shows how stupid this LED/GAMING marketing is, creating rainbow looking board, rather then a functional one, just sad...

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-23, 15:10:25
Something to do with the BIOS itself -  it was always slow to boot up, about 15 minutes sometimes (which I initially put down to drivers, new platform, bios, something I'd built wrong) suddenly would take about an hour to get to POST , and that's if it even got that far - sometimes it would just power cycle endlessly. When it was working I had overclocked it for a bit to 3.7/3.8, but I'd mainly settled on upping the power cap to 400W and letting AMDs PBO do it for me. Ryzen Master would limit the CPU temps to about 68c, and it was boosting to an average 3.6. Was going to do some tweaking to the fans to get the temps down more when the motherboard finally died.
Handling the VRMs was what drew me to the MSI. They would get to about 75/80c under load, which I think was ok. But the bios for the MSI was terrible (no custom fan curves!!).
Crazy that you got such a drop in VRM temps from a few simple modifications. Did you add the fan direct to the motherboard (I think that's what the ASUS has done for gen2), or just to your case? I think EKWB has a few monoblocks for ASUS and Gigabyte motherboards, but I'm not sure how well they perform at cooling the VRM.
Such a shame really, because I was loving the actual performance of the chip - don't be put off anyone from buying one, just be aware that there are a few teething problems out there!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2018-10-23, 16:23:00
So my MSI MEG Creation board died last week (I'm in the nightmare process of trying to get it RMA'd by MSI).In the meantime, I need to replace it with another, preferably non-MSI board. Can anyone here recommend one? I was originally trying to avoid using the gen 1 motherboards with the 2990wx, but at the moment I think I'll go with the ASUS Zenith Extreme, so looking for real-world use cases as oppose to a review that uses it for a day or 2.
Oh, and if anyone who has the MEG wants to try their luck with BIOS v26, I was sent it as part of their tech supports efforts to get the board working. Couldn't tell you what it fixes or breaks, but if anyone wants to try it then do ask.
Cheers

The MEG board has been out of stock everywhere in the UK for months now so I ended up going with the Zenith Extreme. I'm getting my system built at OCUK and the overclocker 8Pack will be tuning my system. From his testing he recommended the Zenith board over the MEG for 24/7 rendering use at 3.9/4ghz despite the VRM limitations. I'll see how it goes and update you guys when I get the system. I'll also have an extra 120mm Noctua fan pointed at the VRM's (using a custom bracket), just for extra peace of mind.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2018-10-23, 18:15:43
Sorry to jump into this post, theres some great info on this thread so I thought it's the best place to get some help with my new 2990wx build. I built my last pc 5 years ago so im a bit out of the loop. any sugestions/improvements would be greatly appreciated!

so far I have spec'd.

CPU-Threadripper 2990WX

MB-MSI MEG X399 CREATION EATX TR4 (although I just read theres some problems?)

Ram - I have spent a week looking through charts and i'm more confused than when i started (samsung B-dies only?) I may also add another 64gb in the future.

Corsair - Vengeance LED (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (CMU64GX4M4C3000C15)
Corsair - Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory (CMK64GX4M4A2666C16)
Or if theres any better options that anyone has in there builds? I was looking at the G.Skill Trident Z RGB but its almost twice the price and has rgb...

Cpu Cooler- such a bad selection available but I dont trust my abilities to make a custom loop.
The best option seems to be Thermalright silver arrow TR4, although theres no reviews...and I can only seem to find it on this website
https://www.sotel.de does anyone know if its a legit site?

or theres these options...

Cooler Master Wraith Ripper
Deepcool Fryzen
Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3
Enermax - LIQTECH TR4 II 360 (so many bad reviews for build quality)

GPU- either a 1080ti or 2080, there around the same price so its a tricky one (I would like to play around with fstorm in the near future)

Drive- 970 Evo 500GB M.2-2280

Case- Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV X GLASS

Psu- SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000W 80+ Titanium (would 1300W be better)

I have a few big projects starting soon so unfortunately I can't hold off on the build anymore. thanks!




Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2018-10-24, 00:18:20
snip

Tested on 1950x but

https://www.gamezoom.net/artikel/Thermalright_Silver_Arrow_TR4_Test_Review-41960-3
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-24, 02:08:44

The MEG board has been out of stock everywhere in the UK for months now so I ended up going with the Zenith Extreme. I'm getting my system built at OCUK and the overclocker 8Pack will be tuning my system. From his testing he recommended the Zenith board over the MEG for 24/7 rendering use at 3.9/4ghz despite the VRM limitations. I'll see how it goes and update you guys when I get the system. I'll also have an extra 120mm Noctua fan pointed at the VRM's (using a custom bracket), just for extra peace of mind.


My plan is to sell on the MEG when it returns from its RMA holiday (unless I'm feeling flush in which case I may just build another system with it). Ended up ordering the Zenith as it seems to manage its temps better than the Gigabyte. I could swap to a monoblock from EK to help cool the VRMs later down the line, but for now I'd rather just get something up and running quick and the RMA will take minimum 2 weeks. 

Sorry to jump into this post, theres some great info on this thread so I thought it's the best place to get some help with my new 2990wx build. I built my last pc 5 years ago so im a bit out of the loop. any sugestions/improvements would be greatly appreciated!

so far I have spec'd.

CPU-Threadripper 2990WX

MB-MSI MEG X399 CREATION EATX TR4 (although I just read theres some problems?)

Ram - I have spent a week looking through charts and i'm more confused than when i started (samsung B-dies only?) I may also add another 64gb in the future.

Corsair - Vengeance LED (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (CMU64GX4M4C3000C15)
Corsair - Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory (CMK64GX4M4A2666C16)
Or if theres any better options that anyone has in there builds? I was looking at the G.Skill Trident Z RGB but its almost twice the price and has rgb...

Cpu Cooler- such a bad selection available but I dont trust my abilities to make a custom loop.
The best option seems to be Thermalright silver arrow TR4, although theres no reviews...and I can only seem to find it on this website
https://www.sotel.de does anyone know if its a legit site?

or theres these options...

Cooler Master Wraith Ripper
Deepcool Fryzen
Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3
Enermax - LIQTECH TR4 II 360 (so many bad reviews for build quality)

GPU- either a 1080ti or 2080, there around the same price so its a tricky one (I would like to play around with fstorm in the near future)

Drive- 970 Evo 500GB M.2-2280

Case- Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV X GLASS

Psu- SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000W 80+ Titanium (would 1300W be better)

I have a few big projects starting soon so unfortunately I can't hold off on the build anymore. thanks!



That's pretty much the same build I had, and although I had a reliability issue with the MEG, and the public BIOS is crap (can't speak as to the quality of the latest BETA), if it's working for you it's still a good board (make sure you buy from a retailer with a good return policy - I bought from Newegg US and they wouldn't take it, but luckily MSI stepped up). One issue I had was using the Phantexs case (which I really like) meant it was a bit tight getting the case USB panel cable into the socket on the MEG. The case has sliding panels for cable management, but I ended up removing one of them and only just managed to squeeze the cable in due to the framework of the case there.
I went for the 1300w Seasonic too, although I'm not really sure if that was overkill or not and the 1000w might be fine (someone with more knowledge on that may be able to answer, but I had it in my head that 1000+ was the way to go).
Cooler options are an issue if you don't fancy custom water, but that Silver Arrow looks reasonable in that review. Tracking some of these coolers down was a problem for me (which also drove me to try custom).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2018-10-24, 12:17:05
hmmm interesting, so the Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 is coming off slightly better which is suprising.

Thanks for the heads up with the phanteks case, I think I will still get it as it just looks so good. What ram did you end up going for?

 I cant believe its so hard to find parts for this 2990wx build, its like nobody wants my money....which is a bit mental.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2018-10-24, 19:49:38
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/09/noctua_amd_threadripper_air_cooler_roundup/1
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2018-10-25, 01:57:07
Boy, I gotta say the big thing holding up my 2990wx build is just not knowing which motherboard to go for.  It seems like the Meg is the winner but needing a beta bios and hearing of failures doesn't exactly make me want to pull the trigger...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-25, 11:08:40
Just quick note since monoblocks were referenced. Do not go this way, the EKWB (and only they make them) TR4 monoblocks still feature the original small die cover plate. So it's like buying their original (v1 and v2) poor CPU block and plus VRM block together.

Super sad to see how the MSI MEG fared. We're still on 1.25 Bios, everything stable (and boot is very fast). VRM temps are fantastic without any cooler pointing on them. But, with the cooler on them, I would go with AORUS like Peter did, not Zenith. I am not sure what is the love-story some overclockers have with Zenith ( I get the love for Asus, I used 99perc. Asus boards for years, but Zenith x399 is very mediocre board for such price).

Anyway, as long as you cool your VRM it seems any board will do. MSI will just do it easiest (as long as you get functioning unit...), with no sweat.





Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2018-10-25, 14:13:42
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/09/noctua_amd_threadripper_air_cooler_roundup/1

Just what I was looking for, Silver arrow with 2 fans looks like the best combination. Thanks!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-26, 10:41:02
Just quick note since monoblocks were referenced. Do not go this way, the EKWB (and only they make them) TR4 monoblocks still feature the original small die cover plate. So it's like buying their original (v1 and v2) poor CPU block and plus VRM block together.

Super sad to see how the MSI MEG fared. We're still on 1.25 Bios, everything stable (and boot is very fast). VRM temps are fantastic without any cooler pointing on them. But, with the cooler on them, I would go with AORUS like Peter did, not Zenith. I am not sure what is the love-story some overclockers have with Zenith ( I get the love for Asus, I used 99perc. Asus boards for years, but Zenith x399 is very mediocre board for such price).

Anyway, as long as you cool your VRM it seems any board will do. MSI will just do it easiest (as long as you get functioning unit...), with no sweat.

Good tip about the monoblock - thanks.
You might be very right about the Zenith.  My fun and games with motherboards continue, as I did end up ordering the zenith a few days back. Board arrives yesterday, I assemble, turn on power supply and bang - sparks and then smoke coming from the board. I'm hoping that its just a bad board, not the PSU (which I've tried in another machine and it seemed fine.)Amazon to their credit are sending me another one for tomorrow, and we'll see how that goes. My worry is that some other component was fried when the MB went pop, but hopefully, the board isolated them.
Beginning to think my Treadripper build is cursed - next time I'll order a pre-built as the amount of time and money this is costing me is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-26, 14:16:04
Sparks and smoke ?! Holy crap :- ). That's not good. It does sound like Motherboard rather than PSU issue though..at least to me.

When I test my builds, I first boot them to uefi with just PSU, MB, single memory DIM, and CPU without cooler on top, it survives (hot) just fine for minute or two. Only then I continue.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-28, 08:47:13
Replacement Zenith arrived yesterday and I'm up and running again! Third time lucky. And I built it exactly like you said, one component at a time (which meant it took all day to build). I can't set it up properly yet and test as I've got to go away but the temps are looking really good at the moment (CPU temp is better than ever, but that's probably down to better TIM placement on the CPU this time than anything board related). When I get back I'll get the memory speed set up correctly and set up PBO and give it some proper stress tests and see how good the temps really are. But I've never been so pleased to see a BIOS screen as I was yesterday :-)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-10-28, 13:30:07
Good to hear that :- ) Crossing my fingers for smooth finish in setup
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-10-28, 21:08:34
Me too!!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2018-10-28, 23:45:11
Replacement Zenith arrived yesterday and I'm up and running again! Third time lucky. And I built it exactly like you said, one component at a time (which meant it took all day to build). I can't set it up properly yet and test as I've got to go away but the temps are looking really good at the moment (CPU temp is better than ever, but that's probably down to better TIM placement on the CPU this time than anything board related). When I get back I'll get the memory speed set up correctly and set up PBO and give it some proper stress tests and see how good the temps really are. But I've never been so pleased to see a BIOS screen as I was yesterday :-)

Whats your temps ? Originally i wanted to purchase Zenith but after some proper research i went with Aorus so im curious what numbers you are getting.
Im using stock clock + NHU14s with one fan since two fans actually did nothing because of single heatsink design. CPU tends to sit at 55-58C even after several hours of rendering so im fine with it considering its on air.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2018-11-03, 14:38:08
I have just finished my build and thought I would put up results for an aircooler to compare.

I'm using the Thermalright silver arrow TR4 but with a added fan. The fan is seriously loud at 100% so I got the 2nd one and im running them both at 60% full load. The machine is silent during normal work and when rendering it's an ok level.
Ram is flare X 2993 cl14 (cant seem to clock it higher and get it stable)
MSI meg creation

idle temp sits between 38-40 c
loaded rendering 67 c
PPT (cpu) 75% of 500w full load

Corona bench 3.7ghz all cores- 38sec

Cinebench 5884- all cores 3.85mhz
single- 163

Vray bench - 24 sec

I let corona render a scene for 15 hours with no crashes so everything is stable. Overall really happy with the purchase and the speed, my old machine was a 4930k though so anythings an improvement tbf!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2018-11-03, 23:08:41
I was playing with my system a bit. I dont want to OC it since its my 24/7 machine for everything /i have xeon renderfarm for long tasks/.

So i decided to undervolt my 2990wx and im on stable -0.125mv. Cinebench gives me 5122 points so there is no power loss. Aida64 hits 52-54C /56C peak/, Corona never pushes over 52C and volatage is fluctating from 0.98x to 1.08xV.

Im using only 2 fans atm - 1x NHU14 and 1x case fan. I can barely hear my PC now even at full load. Im so damn impressed. I think there is still some room to go even lower.


loaded rendering 67 c


Keep eye on the temps, it will start to power throttle at 67,8C. During summer definitely.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-11-05, 20:00:38


Whats your temps ? Originally i wanted to purchase Zenith but after some proper research i went with Aorus so im curious what numbers you are getting.
Im using stock clock + NHU14s with one fan since two fans actually did nothing because of single heatsink design. CPU tends to sit at 55-58C even after several hours of rendering so im fine with it considering its on air.

Did some set up and testing over the last few days since the replacement board arrived. Current set up is the Zenith, 64gb Corsair Vengence Pro (had to downclock it a bit to 2866 as it wasn't stable), running PBO with Performance Enhancement set to Level 2 in the Bios (could have gone to lvl 3 but for now I didn't want to push it too far for now). Using a custom loop from an EK water block, 360mm rad with 3 EK Varda fans, 3 case fans (1 Noctua, 2 Phantexs that came with the case).
Temps are around 30 c at idle. Under load, cpu is at 67c, vrm at 68c. Fans are audible but not too bad at all.
Could probably spend some more time upping the power,  re-tweaking the cooling and overclocking the ram. But the performance is still great (I too have come from a 4930k, so this is definitely a big step up) and with the problems I've had over the last few weeks with the MSI board and its replacement I just need a functioning, stable machine, so I'll stay out of the BIOS for a while.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-11-05, 21:31:33
Running PBO, temperature wise is probably the worst option. It overvolts the CPU so so much.  Seeing 1.4-1.5v !!! on some cores it`s not rare.  For illustration i can run 3.8GHz on all cores at 1.15v  and get better temps then default PBO.
At 1.1-1.15v for all cores,the total CPU power consumption is around 275W, will get you 5850Cinebench.
Runing PBO will get you up to 300W, and get around 5200-5300 Cinebench.

So if we are talking purely about rendering performance, or 24/7 render loads, Manual OC is the way to go.

If you struggle with single tread performance or use poorly threaded applications,then PBO can help, but not much. Because, how much can you gain,going from 3.8 to 4.0-4.1 on those couple of cores that can take it..

btw, spent about a month bencharking 2990wx on Linux(ubuntu and mint) and it`s just ridiculous how much faster it is on Linux compared to Windows, some application, like Houdini, up to  30% on simulations(pyro/grains/).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-11-06, 01:24:24
Cheers for the heads up there - having said I would just leave the system as is for now, I was straight back into the BIOS.

Now running a manual OC at 3.8 all cores at 1.15v, and like you getting around 5750-5850 on Cinebench. Will now do some more through stress testing to check stability.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-11-06, 01:48:17
Great, let us know how it went. For me 3.8 at 1.1v rendering for hours was working fine, no crashes. But i was getting crashes in houdini simulations, so i bumped it a bit to 1.15 and running smooth now. I guess this really is silicon lottery territory, you might get lucky and run lower then me, or not :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-06, 11:16:53
I see undervolting is all the fashion :- ). I am not the biggest fan, and neither of manual OC. PBO might take voltage higher but it also preserves your single core turbo. I would much rather have 4.2 Single core than better voltage on all-core and be limited to <3.8.

Of course, it heavily depends on your cooling and motherboard. For Air cooling, it's definitely good thing and seeing how good temperatures you can get this way with Noctua makes me happy. But if you already spent money on custom loop, go PBO.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nerfherder on 2018-11-08, 11:27:06
Great, let us know how it went. For me 3.8 at 1.1v rendering for hours was working fine, no crashes. But i was getting crashes in houdini simulations, so i bumped it a bit to 1.15 and running smooth now. I guess this really is silicon lottery territory, you might get lucky and run lower then me, or not :)

Well, I stressed tested it an all was well. Shut it down and the in the morning it wouldn't post :(. Flashed the bios and it booted fine (and has done ever since) and have just left it at stock for now. Just going to leave it be for now, actually use the machine for work and then think about what to do next. Even at stock its an awesome system and a big performance boost for me, but I'll probably look into either PBO or manual OC in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-08, 13:13:20
The pesky windows 10 update that secretly bundles up micro-code ( KB4100347 ) keeps on installing and somehow downregulating turbo speed (only noticeable in single-core). Without any change to voltage or power, from 4.1Ghz to 3.7Ghz. That is 10perc. single-core performance I do not like being gone. Finally blocked that update from re-installing. Instantly fixed.

I didn't do so previously because I've heard some following update had fixed this behavior but apparently that isn't such case. Also hoped bios update would fix this in meantime. Didn't happen either...MSI.

I am still super-baffled by this. It's Spectre patch, it shouldn't do much to AMD system yet it does ! I hope it doesn't come secretly bundled with another big update next season.


If in some case some you have trouble with turbos, check if KB4100347 isn't installed (as long as you have v1803 edition build).


In other news, for MEG owners, there is another private beta bios, comes with updated AGESA and some users reports stable memory clocks up to 3166 Mhz (with 8x8 sticks though, haven't seen any 4x16/8x16 confirm) so memory compatibility and stableness is improved. I did not try it myself yet.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-11-09, 22:45:47
The pesky windows 10 update that secretly bundles up micro-code ( KB4100347 ) keeps on installing and somehow downregulating turbo speed (only noticeable in single-core). Without any change to voltage or power, from 4.1Ghz to 3.7Ghz. That is 10perc. single-core performance I do not like being gone. Finally blocked that update from re-installing. Instantly fixed.

I didn't do so previously because I've heard some following update had fixed this behavior but apparently that isn't such case. Also hoped bios update would fix this in meantime. Didn't happen either...MSI.

I am still super-baffled by this. It's Spectre patch, it shouldn't do much to AMD system yet it does ! I hope it doesn't come secretly bundled with another big update next season.


If in some case some you have trouble with turbos, check if KB4100347 isn't installed (as long as you have v1803 edition build).


In other news, for MEG owners, there is another private beta bios, comes with updated AGESA and some users reports stable memory clocks up to 3166 Mhz (with 8x8 sticks though, haven't seen any 4x16/8x16 confirm) so memory compatibility and stableness is improved. I did not try it myself yet.

If someone can post like an 'ideal' config for a system with this cpu ill put it in the first post. This has gone way deeper than i can follow now haha.
Im looking at upgrading at work and it would certainly help to have some idea of what components work well together.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-10, 20:25:14
[quote author=Juraj Talcik link=topic=21416.msg137474#msg137474 date=1541679200


In other news, for MEG owners, there is another private beta bios, comes with updated AGESA and some users reports stable memory clocks up to 3166 Mhz (with 8x8 sticks though, haven't seen any 4x16/8x16 confirm) so memory compatibility and stableness is improved. I did not try it myself yet.
[/quote]

Are other 2990wx MBs stable which >2933Mhz memory ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-11, 14:34:00
No, it has mostly to do with the chipset, not much the MB manufacturers can do about. You might be able to get it stable higher with smaller amount (and smaller capacity) sticks, but that isn't very rational choice for 2990WX.

MEG is still the best board to get performance wise, while feature set is richer (4x dual-slot PCI-e slots & 10gbe nic on board) on Aorus Xtreme.

We can wait and see what the x499 will bring on to the table.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-13, 14:16:01
Recently bought 2990wx system:

f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx(optimized for AMD)
aorus xtreme x399
seasonic 1300w
samsung 970 pro 512gb
NZXT kraken 72x(67 degrees on full load stock frequency) 5050 Cinebench and about 40seconds corona benchmark(basically everything as expected)

But....

Everything in the start seemed vanilla good until I started experiencing lags and constant freezing on heavy scenes 40gb or more when loaded into Ram. Gets very annoying after some time. And "smoothness" is even worse than on my previous systems like 5960x and Ryzen 1800X. I am fully aware that Max utilises only single core during tasks like ui, saving, opening file etc. but isn't main problem NUMA architecture itself that isn't yet fully optimized on windows 10?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-13, 16:16:03
Recently bought 2990wx system:

f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx(optimized for AMD)
aorus xtreme x399
seasonic 1300w
samsung 970 pro 512gb
NZXT kraken 72x(67 degrees on full load stock frequency) 5050 Cinebench and about 40seconds corona benchmark(basically everything as expected)

But....

Everything in the start seemed vanilla good until I started experiencing lags and constant freezing on heavy scenes 40gb or more when loaded into Ram. Gets very annoying after some time. And "smoothness" is even worse than on my previous systems like 5960x and Ryzen 1800X. I am fully aware that Max utilises only single core during tasks like ui, saving, opening file etc. but isn't main problem NUMA architecture itself that isn't yet fully optimized on windows 10?

perhaps not related but the memory you listed (f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx) doesnt appear on the motherboard QVL http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme_2nd.pdf
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-13, 16:32:23
prolly not related but the memory you listed (f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx) doesnt appear on the motherboard QVL http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme_2nd.pdf

actually g.skill website says aorus xtreme motherboard is on QVL https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx
Maybe list from gigabyte isn't up to date.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-13, 16:39:16
prolly not related but the memory you listed (f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx) doesnt appear on the motherboard QVL http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme_2nd.pdf

actually g.skill website says aorus xtreme motherboard is on QVL https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx
Maybe list from gigabyte isn't up to date.
yah this is strange.
i found another qvl for this card where the memory f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx appears.
http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme.pdf


i don't know which pdf is the most recent tho. the one where your ram doesnt appear has the mention "2nd" at the end of its name.

edit: from this page http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/  it seems the one which doesnt contain your ram is the most recent
edit 2 : http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme_2990WX.pdf   this seems to be the good pdf to look at (doesnt contain f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-13, 17:17:14
Quote
yah this is strange.
i found another qvl for this card where the memory f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx appears.
http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme.pdf


i don't know which pdf is the most recent tho. the one where your ram doesnt appear has the mention "2nd" at the end of its name.

edit: from this page http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/  it seems the one which doesnt contain your ram is the most recent
edit 2 : http://download.gigabyte.cn/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x399-aorus-xtreme_2990WX.pdf   this seems to be the good pdf to look at (doesnt contain f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx)

Makes me think because Xmp for 2933 appears to be working stable also there are no indications apart from absence in gigabytes listings that ram shouldn't do.
Off course before buying i checked qvl's there and there, and wasn't concerned this memory would create any performance drops(and doubting it is to be blamed) as it is advertised as high performance memory for x399 platforms.
Also reading from this thread psanitra has same memory in his build without any complains.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-13, 17:29:54

Makes me think because Xmp for 2933 appears to be working stable also there are no indications apart from absence in gigabytes listings that ram shouldn't do.
Off course before buying i checked qvl's there and there, and wasn't concerned this memory would create any performance drops(and doubting it is to be blamed) as it is advertised as high performance memory for x399 platforms.
Also reading from this thread psanitra has same memory in his build without any complains.


Yes perhaps memory is not to be blamed. Just noticed this little strangeness. I am currently trying to build a 2990wx system and stumbled on the same incoherence where the gskill qvl listed my board but the board qvl was not listing the ram.
I think now I'll try to respect the board qvl  instead of the memory one. We never know.

good luck finding whats slowing you down. keep the thread updated :) if you can

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-13, 17:47:08



yes perhaps memory is not to be blamed. just noticed this little strangeness. i am currently trying to build a 2990wx system and stumbled on the same incoherence where the gskill qvl listed my board but the board qvl was not listing the ram.
i think now ill try to respect at board qvl  instead of the memory one. we never know.

good luck finding whats slowing you down. keep the thread updated :) if you can
will continue on testing and looking for solution
Thanks for your input and good luck finding right parts for your build.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-13, 18:25:19
That smoothness can be many things. Right now we use as workstation highly clocked i9 7980XE and 2990WX and I can say I can't perceive any slowness compared to the i9 which has better memory access (single die to all channels) and better IPC. BUT, we know the issue is there.
First I would try to install Ryzen Master and try the newest Dynamic Local Mode. It will shuffle single-thread heavy processes onto cores with direct memory access.

I will put second possibility only as crude option, but even single-core CPU utilization can throttle performance if those few cores hit thermal limit (particularly under PBO). I feel that with kraken x72 that might be the case because of poor die coverage. Imho air-cooler with full heatspreader cover like U14S-TR4 is superior to small coverage of the Asetec units.

There is no issue with your memory and I doubt that would manifest in this way.

And last, look at my last post regarding Spectre patch. If you can't uninstall the patch due to latest install build, you can replace the .dlls with the older version (though I just renamed them as soft-delete without any issue).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: psanitra on 2018-11-13, 22:40:30
Hey, i`m running that same kit you talking about  f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx on same board no issues. Over past 2 months i`ve tried all 3 bioses available, all work fine. Only time i was experiences any crashed was when i was testing extreme overclocks. 
If you run CPU at stock clock speeds, and runnning ram at profile 1(2933) there should be no issues. If i have to wild guess, maybe it`s the AIO cooler, or terrible air flow i case with overheating VRM. 68 deg Celsius, at this temp CPU should start throttling already...  Both are easy to check, run HWiNFO64 and let us know what temps you getting. Look for CPU(Tdie) and VRM MOS.  Just run a long render that utilize CPU at 100%, watch the windows task manager 100% cpu line and if it starts dipping occasionally, you are in trouble :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-15, 12:40:20
That smoothness can be many things. Right now we use as workstation highly clocked i9 7980XE and 2990WX and I can say I can't perceive any slowness compared to the i9 which has better memory access (single die to all channels) and better IPC. BUT, we know the issue is there.
First I would try to install Ryzen Master and try the newest Dynamic Local Mode. It will shuffle single-thread heavy processes onto cores with direct memory access.

I will put second possibility only as crude option, but even single-core CPU utilization can throttle performance if those few cores hit thermal limit (particularly under PBO). I feel that with kraken x72 that might be the case because of poor die coverage. Imho air-cooler with full heatspreader cover like U14S-TR4 is superior to small coverage of the Asetec units.

There is no issue with your memory and I doubt that would manifest in this way.

And last, look at my last post regarding Spectre patch. If you can't uninstall the patch due to latest install build, you can replace the .dlls with the older version (though I just renamed them as soft-delete without any issue).

Hello Juraj.
Thanks for valuable tips.
I tried some fixing and here are the results:
Somehow previously PBO wasn't enabled albeit it was set on"creator mode". Same I guess with Dynamic local mode it should be on by default but it didn't seemed to do it's job. So I reset my BIOS and I reinstalled Ryzen master and the result is like day and night. It does feel more responsive and smooth, 3dsmax is not freezing like crazy anymore. I am really pleased.

Yes agree, kraken x72 isn't best fit for full die coverage, my initial thought was to find decent AiO, so there would be less hassle with custom loop solution, but after intense searching conclusion is that there isn't out atleast for now aio I am looking, so between existing ones x72 with tr4 bracket seemed most attractive.

Regarding Spectre patch issue I will look more in depth because update KB4100347 wasn't present.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: cedrus deodara on 2018-11-15, 13:22:36
Hey, i`m running that same kit you talking about  f4-2933c14q2-128gtzrx on same board no issues. Over past 2 months i`ve tried all 3 bioses available, all work fine. Only time i was experiences any crashed was when i was testing extreme overclocks. 
If you run CPU at stock clock speeds, and runnning ram at profile 1(2933) there should be no issues. If i have to wild guess, maybe it`s the AIO cooler, or terrible air flow i case with overheating VRM. 68 deg Celsius, at this temp CPU should start throttling already...  Both are easy to check, run HWiNFO64 and let us know what temps you getting. Look for CPU(Tdie) and VRM MOS.  Just run a long render that utilize CPU at 100%, watch the windows task manager 100% cpu line and if it starts dipping occasionally, you are in trouble :)

Hello psanitra, thanks for suggestions.
I ran render test for about an hour and checked temps with HWiNFO64 CPU(Tdie) 68.2 degrees, VRM MOS constant at 66 degrees, but cpu frequency indeed starts jumping back and forth from 3100 to 3000, cpu utilization from 100% to 92%. Think this could be sign of thermal throttling. In addition I checked device itself unfortunately one of the 3 fans isn't spinning at all. Will try to fix this and see if it does better.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lupaz on 2018-11-15, 19:31:54
Right now we use as workstation highly clocked i9 7980XE and 2990WX and I can say I can't perceive any slowness compared to the i9 which has better memory access

Juraj, overall, are you happier with your i9 build or 2990WX?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-16, 11:32:26
I would say 2990WX, it's lot more high-end build as well :- ). I went all out with the cooling and parts on it, with intention to get the most out of it in terms of performance (while keeping excellent acoustics). I've succeeded in that despite the baby pains with bios and software part.
The i9, I tried to build it in very budget way because I got the CPU for relatively cheap (1200 euro). But then I paid for delidding and the results were not stellar anyway. I would need a board with much more than 8 phases that my Asus has (all boards were like that for x299 with like three exceptions), and same powerful loop if I would want to keep it highly clocked (4.4+ Ghz) while keeping it silent (<30dB). I contemplated rebuilding it into custom loop as well, with better board. But then again, it feels like wasting even more money on it...

Neither is perfect as highly clocked i9 gets almost same performance in Corona compared to 2990WX with half as many cores only !. The difference is opposite in everything else (like Marvelous Designer simulation, etc..), so Corona perhaps runs against the memory limitations of Threadripper architecture.
With Dynamic Local Mode, single-thread performance should also feel pretty much the same in all apps as well (like working in 3dsMax and Photoshop, and it does, both feel equally smooth I would say).

For future, I still feel Threadripper will continue to get better because the IPC is getting up (Intel struggles and only rises clocks), the infinity fabric is improving, ram speeds are going up and costs will go down as manufacturing this architecture is relatively cheap.
But future Intel ? The "28c" i9, if it even comes to market, will be hugely overpriced, it requires 20+ Phases (the boards are ridiculous), will required crazy overbuilt water-loop (like mine, but not for high-overclock, but to simply get it running).

At this moment I am still lot more partial towards AMD :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lupaz on 2018-11-17, 02:46:12
Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.
Interesting to know the single thread performance is about the same on both.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-19, 16:26:53
Excuse me, I see in this thread multiple mentions of how 2933 is for the moment the highest stable freq for 2990wx but I can't find this info elsewhere.
Where does the info come from ?

Thank you

edit: i found https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/ryzen_threadripper/2990wx
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-19, 17:09:25
QVL lists aren't definite on all options as they test only a certain subset, but it gives you solid idea nonetheless.  You can see that when you reach certain amount of ranks (by going above 64 GB configurations, esp. when using 16 GB modules) the highest stable tested frequency for such memory configuration is 2933 MHz.
Now, lot of enthusiasts play around with custom timings (and usually on custom versions of modified bios) to get around such limitations but I haven't seen much of that around for 2990WX. And I surely wouldn't go for "barely stable benchmark setup" on my workstation. Lower single digit potential performance advantage vs potential loss of work, that's not tough choice imho.

You can buy 3600 or 4000 MHz memory configurations and then simply try yourself, 'maybe' you'll get lucky ;- ).

Still, you can go for best binned versions with tighter timings, i.e CAS15 & 2933 vs CAS19.

(I assumed you just wrongly worded your question, but you are asking about stable memory frequency right ? That is when that number comes from. Not CPU frequency).

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-11-19, 17:23:48


(I assumed you just wrongly worded your question, but you are asking about stable memory frequency right ? That is when that number comes from. Not CPU frequency).
yes i was talking about memory frequency.

Thanks for your answer.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-11-22, 14:39:47
Can someone recommend a good x399 motherboard with 10 gigabit connectivity?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-22, 17:42:27
Can someone recommend a good x399 motherboard with 10 gigabit connectivity?

I am aware of only three options:

1) Asus Zenith Extreme. Just not a good board (8 VRM phases for CPU, terrible cooling), absolutely not for its price. The 10Gbit is not integrated and comes in form of rebranded Aquantia Lan Card which you can buy separately for 100 euros. It blocks 1 of the 4 slots thus, preventing 4xGPU use.
2) Asrock Fatality Extreme.  Not great board either (8 VRM phases for CPU), the 10Gbit is integrated into board.
3) Gigabyte Aorus Extreme. Much better than the two above (10 VRM phases for CPU and better heatsink), the 10Gbit is integrated.

Imho the choice is clear. Aorus.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-11-22, 21:30:20
Can someone recommend a good x399 motherboard with 10 gigabit connectivity?

I am aware of only three options:

1) Asus Zenith Extreme. Just not a good board (8 VRM phases for CPU, terrible cooling), absolutely not for its price. The 10Gbit is not integrated and comes in form of rebranded Aquantia Lan Card which you can buy separately for 100 euros. It blocks 1 of the 4 slots thus, preventing 4xGPU use.
2) Asrock Fatality Extreme.  Not great board either (8 VRM phases for CPU), the 10Gbit is integrated into board.
3) Gigabyte Aorus Extreme. Much better than the two above (10 VRM phases for CPU and better heatsink), the 10Gbit is integrated.

Imho the choice is clear. Aorus.

Thanks, i looked at the MIS MEG as it has dual lan but thought perhaps one of them was 10gb but no.
Would you recommend the MEG plus a pci card or would the gigabyte suffice? I dont see us doing any overclocking really.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-22, 22:18:52
If you don't plan on overclocking than there is no need for MSI MEG. MSI MEG plus 10gbit card is almost 200 euros over the other choices and leave you with only 3 usable dual-slots.

Aorus is no-brainer choice for you :- ).

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-11-26, 21:07:28
Am I an idiot for thinking I can build a setup based on Asus ROG Srtix 399X?

I don't know enough about power delivery, phases ect to evaluate the question.  I am hoping for a mild overclock, maybe 3.7-3.8 which seems doable without going to crazy power draw. Looking at the DeBauer OC guide for reference. The Strix has an 8pin+4pin power, while the Zenith has 8+8pin. But, apparently both have 8 power phases? Please feel free to correct me, I'm not even sure what the power phases imply exactly.

Really hoping Enermax get their shit together, would be nice to just buy a 360 from them and get decent cooling. Here in Canada all the stock is gone on Amazon, so hopefully, the old revisions have been removed and new stock will be improved. Maybe not though.

Looking forward to your thoughts...definitely starting to get anxious about this build reding through this thread.

(https://i.postimg.cc/qg0HmMTG/debauer.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qg0HmMTG)



Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-27, 18:14:43
Am I an idiot for thinking I can build a setup based on Asus ROG Srtix 399X?

I don't know enough about power delivery, phases ect to evaluate the question.  I am hoping for a mild overclock, maybe 3.7-3.8 which seems doable without going to crazy power draw. Looking at the DeBauer OC guide for reference. The Strix has an 8pin+4pin power, while the Zenith has 8+8pin. But, apparently both have 8 power phases? Please feel free to correct me, I'm not even sure what the power phases imply exactly.

Really hoping Enermax get their shit together, would be nice to just buy a 360 from them and get decent cooling. Here in Canada all the stock is gone on Amazon, so hopefully, the old revisions have been removed and new stock will be improved. Maybe not though.

Looking forward to your thoughts...definitely starting to get anxious about this build reding through this thread.

(https://i.postimg.cc/qg0HmMTG/debauer.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qg0HmMTG)






Can you get it much cheaper than Aorus Xtreme ? Unless yes, I would not do so for the 100 euro difference. It's inferior board and I say this as owner of X299 Strix for my i9 (but I got it as deal for 200 euros so I was ok with mediocre board). Asus actually upgraded the Intel version (Strix-E into second revision of XE) by revising their poor VRM heatsink. The never did this for AMD version, which tells you all you need. This is not a good board for 2990WX.

All Asus boards in lineup currently have 8 phases and poor heatsinks (hence why they sell stupid 4cm fan for Zenith you can mount to "help").

Reg phases: VRM phases supply juice (voltage) to the CPU. The more of them, the more stable is the voltage output and potentially better heat dissipation given same mosfet quality (so that is yes for high-end boards for x299 & x399 platforms), leading to safer and stable operation (and higher potential of stable overclock). You can get by with less phases but they easily get over-stressed and require considerable active cooling.

Power connectors do just that..bring power to the board :- ), before it feds through the VRM phases as usable voltage for the CPU.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-11-27, 19:49:48

Yeah, that's the thing, I got a smoking deal on it. All the high-end boards are around 600 in Canada, and none went on sale for black Friday. I'm talking the zenith, the MEG etc. I got the Strix for around 300, so half that.  If the Strix and the Zenith essentially have the same power delivery then I'll likely take my chances with the Strix. If I'm reading your comments right, it's clearly inferior to a top-shelf board but will still work.

I'm not looking to hit 4.1 OC or something. If I can hit a stable 3.6-3.8 that will be more than good enough. I'm only considering Enermax or Noctua for cooling. Based on the DeBauer graph that's under 300W so hopefully will be workable with the Strix.

I mean, I have the cash for a better board, but not sure if I'll get any benefit from it. Higher OC's look like they need serious cooling and I'm not considering going that route, so a board that gets me to that 3.6-3.8 range should be fine. But then, maybe I am being optimistic.

PS. Juraj, are all the issues with the MEG cleared up? Running solid with public BIOS? Also, appreciate getting your input. Thanks.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-11-27, 20:29:56
Ok, that can be considered good deal, go for it then ;- ). The power delivery is the same, but the heatsink is lot worse, so you will have to account for this with good case airflow, and ideally additional fan pointed towards the VRM.

Btw people are quite hyperbolic with the overclocking numbers in general, 4.1 OC is not "high", it's the practical limit of this CPU and territory where every other board then MEG will be in smokes from VRM.
Also Debauer's numbers are based on manual under-volting, you might not win silicon lottery for that to reach same voltage with stability. But as Peter Sanitra and Michal Timko have demostrated, people have great results mostly.

The BIOS ? Well, depends. For me, yes but as you see elsewhere on this forum, James had issue with stability on latest beta. And I checked the MSI forums, and it seems people with RAID have trouble (but seriously, don't use RAID in your workstation in 2018, it's never good idea, never ever). Apparently the issue is because MSI is slow to release drivers for latest Win10 distribution (Gigabyte releases their drivers in October ahead).

Truth be told looks like this platform overall (x399) just isn't being given much priority, perhaps due to amount of sold units. Niche platform, issues take longer to resolve.
But I would feel safe about this, x399 has still at least two years of lifespan, so all kinks will be ironed out as these boards need to support another generation of hardware.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-11-28, 21:02:41
Looking at some systems for work.

2990WX
64gb 2666Mhz Ram (potential upgrade in the future to 128gb if it becomes necessary)
1070 Ti
Aorus X399 eXtreme
Evo 970 500gb
RM850 PSU
Noctua TR4 Cooler with an additional 120mm fan on the rear.

Any suggestions/comments/critique?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-02, 23:00:30
First things first. Question, is everyone respecting the 68C thermal limit with their manual clocks? I haven't seen anyone recommend going above it. Also, are people undervolting their PBO? Im on ASUS and using the offset to under volt the PBO with - 0.1 CV.


Okay, got my 'cheap' setup going.

ROG Strix 399-e
2990wx
64GB Corsair LP 3200
Enermax Tr4 280 (I know, I know. Actually got it used from Kijiji, its now 9 months old and no issues. Ill RMA it and get the gen 2 asap)
Evo 970

Testing on an open-air bench, with a Quadro 600 until its time to swap out as my main workstation.

For now, can get 37 seconds on Corona Bench and 23-24 on Vray. Playing with both PBO and Manual clock. With PBO the board Throttles at 68C of course and ends up dropping from the initial 3.8 (the max all core PBO from a cool starting point) to anywhere from 3.5-2.9 depending on the task. Corona and Vray benchmarks tend to average around 3.4-3.25. Prime 95 FFT test sends it right down to 2.9-3.0, while the blend test results in 3.4-3.5.  I can get similar performance from a manual OC, but it runs a bit hotter than the 68C recommended, requiring 1.145 CV to maintain a stable-ish 3.7. For now, I'll take the PBO result and be happy with that.

Some observations...
-Strix board seems to be doing fine so far. VRM has gone up to 76C (open bench of course). Power delivery has been adequate for what I'm doing. It's definitely not a limiting factor at this level of Performance/thermal limit. That being said, I need to do longer term testing. I remember seeing someone with a MEG board say they were getting stable 3.8 Manual with 1.1 CV. definitely need much more here, 1.14-1.15 to get close to stable, and then my cooling becomes an issue..

- Enermax is doing a decent job. hope it doesn't explode. When I RMA the gen 1 for gen 2 ill see if I can upgrade to 360.

- I like this new type of Overclocking. The thermal limit is set and the MOBO does all the work. That's a step forward. Long as the board isn't shit (and mine might be) if you want better performance, just buy better cooling.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-12-04, 16:34:17
I 'm  using Noctua NH u14s with double mounted fan to cool my system.
I' m curious about other idle and "loaded" temps with  solutions like wraithripper, enermax, or custom.

my Tdies are :  idle 28-29 C  and loaded 48-49 C . Room temp is 20 C.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-05, 04:40:42
I 'm  using Noctua NH u14s with double mounted fan to cool my system.
I' m curious about other idle and "loaded" temps with  solutions like wraithripper, enermax, or custom.

my Tdies are :  idle 28-29 C  and loaded 48-49 C . Room temp is 20 C.

Have you turned on PBO, AMD's automatic overclocking?

If your temps aren't 68C at Load then you are leaving a good deal of performance on the table. PBO should overclock your CPU until it hits its thermal limit at 68C. On ASUS boards this feature is called performance enhancement in the BIOS. Not sure what its called for other boards. But maybe you are holding back for noise, or VRM overheat?

There are comparisons out there. Google around. From what I saw Wraith and Noctua are neck and neck, the silver arrow is a bit better, and Enermax is the winner, maybe by 6-10C over Noctua. But there have been lots of problems with the Liqtech rev.1, huge fail rate, and some leaking. Rev.2 maybe be better, but the jury is still out.

On a personal note, I have been waiting like 5 business days for a proper RMA response from Enermax. Just terrible. Unfortunately, they are the only game in town right now on the AIO side.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PsychoBoyJack on 2018-12-05, 14:04:24
I 'm a bit afraid to overclock and burn my MB/CPU. Isn't it dangerous (overheat and crash/burn/die ?) ? doesn't it reduce the components lifespan ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-12-05, 21:57:25
I 'm a bit afraid to overclock and burn my MB/CPU. Isn't it dangerous (overheat and crash/burn/die ?) ? doesn't it reduce the components lifespan ?

If done properly and cooling is sufficient to keep the dies below their max temp you should be fine
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-06, 11:20:05
It only took 6 months, but the II generation of Liqtech is now publicly available after going through two iterations within same timeframe. Since this is basically 4th edition, perhaps it's finally bug-free :- ) ?

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/enermax-launches-liqtech-iiuniversal-aio-liquid-cooler-with-tdp-500-watts.html
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-12-06, 12:55:26
Looking at some systems for work.

2990WX
64gb 2666Mhz Ram (potential upgrade in the future to 128gb if it becomes necessary)
1070 Ti
Aorus X399 eXtreme
Evo 970 500gb
RM850 PSU
Noctua TR4 Cooler with an additional 120mm fan on the rear.

Any suggestions/comments/critique?

@Juraj you seem to be well informed. Could you give any crit to the above spec? Or make any swaps/changes? Im not looking to overclock but if the thermals allow for it i wouldnt mind seeing where i can get to with it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-08, 15:05:01
Don't see anything to critique, that will work well :- ). If you could find withing similar price range, or close-enough, a 2933 memory, I would do that as the difference can be noticed with Corona and other memory intensive workloads, but it's not crucial.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2018-12-08, 20:02:53
I 'm  using Noctua NH u14s with double mounted fan to cool my system.
I' m curious about other idle and "loaded" temps with  solutions like wraithripper, enermax, or custom.

my Tdies are :  idle 28-29 C  and loaded 48-49 C . Room temp is 20 C.

There is literally zero benefits running two fans on NH14 (pull - push). I noticed more noise while having 2 fans running and i did 2x 4hr test with 1 and 2 fans and difference was 1C.
Problem is that its single heatsink design. Hope they will release NH15 in future.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-08, 20:25:02
They were very reluctant to make changes that would accomodate D15 on TR4 and I think they denied working on anything for TR4 on this year's Computex.

It would require new positioning for the heatpipes and while that might seem like minor thing, Noctua says it takes them half a year of work to make black version of their latest 120mm Sterrox fan.
I really wouldn't count on them releasing D15 for TR4 any soon..if ever.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-12-09, 00:24:13
They were very reluctant to make changes that would accomodate D15 on TR4 and I think they denied working on anything for TR4 on this year's Computex.

It would require new positioning for the heatpipes and while that might seem like minor thing, Noctua says it takes them half a year of work to make black version of their latest 120mm Sterrox fan.
I really wouldn't count on them releasing D15 for TR4 any soon..if ever.

Are there any better cooling solutions i should be considering?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-10, 18:36:17

Are there any better cooling solutions i should be considering?

It's been mentioned here a few times... The Enermax Liqhtec tr4 gen.2

You can see the Gen.1 performance advantage here. The issue was that gen.1 had all kind of problems that would lead to failure...
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3089-threadripper-cooler-comparison-full-coverage-liquid-vs-air

Supposedly, the current (there were maybe even problems with the first batch of gen.2) Liqtech TR4's have all the issues resolved. I'm taking the gamble as the performance is clearly good. I have a gen.1 280 that is still working fine after 9months and its good stuff. But I will RMA it for a new Gen.2 just to be safe.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2018-12-10, 19:13:09
I am in the same spot as you are. Got a 280 working fine nearly a year now on the 1950x but I am not sure if you can RMA the cooler if its working ok now or they are taking it RMA's without any questions?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2018-12-11, 10:36:55

Are there any better cooling solutions i should be considering?

It's been mentioned here a few times... The Enermax Liqhtec tr4 gen.2

You can see the Gen.1 performance advantage here. The issue was that gen.1 had all kind of problems that would lead to failure...
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3089-threadripper-cooler-comparison-full-coverage-liquid-vs-air

Supposedly, the current (there were maybe even problems with the first batch of gen.2) Liqtech TR4's have all the issues resolved. I'm taking the gamble as the performance is clearly good. I have a gen.1 280 that is still working fine after 9months and its good stuff. But I will RMA it for a new Gen.2 just to be safe.

Is it overkill if i dont plan on overclocking?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-11, 11:54:28
There is no such thing as overkill cooling. If you don't use the performance, you'll trade it in for silence.

And Enermax is of course doing some good old marketing, it's 500W rated...as long as you let the fans run at 2000rpm. It's not overkill in true sense at all, it's just much better solution than other available.
I would probably trust it right now.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-12, 20:32:54
Is it overkill if i dont plan on overclocking?

Juraj said it...but think of it this way.

Its not really overclocking anymore....these new CPUs are capable of automatic all core turbo boost. Overclocking used to be a project in itself, now its a feature.

  If you don't use it you are just leaving performance on the table, rotting fruit on the vine. The real question is, how much do you want to spend on cooling, and that breaks down into a performance/noise/cost trade-off.

In other words....just do it!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: ivabox on 2018-12-13, 07:37:30
So after reading tons of pages for this processor, I want to ask one last time:) Do you guys recommend 2990WX over 7980xe. In terms of performance I am sold, everything looks fine, but I am really afraid of that ram problem, we work with really huge scenes, generally it uses all of the 128GB of ram, so what would you guys suggest? (Also we couldnt not find 7980xe available right now in Turkey, but AMD is ready to ship)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-13, 11:46:03
Hi,

I have both. My personal suggestion is 2990WX being superior as overall package. Now regards to the "ram problem":

- What is it that concerns you ? The fact only half of dies are connected to memory directly ? This affects only single-threaded performance and is alleviated by recent Ryzen software which basically does automatical project lasso, it shuffles processes like 3dsMax and Photoshop into those physical cores that have direct memory access. With PBO, you keep high single-core performance on par with i9, so applications run on the same smoothness.

- Or maybe the fact that affinity fabric within dies together affects the overall performance even multithreaded due to latency. This is very application specific but even with this latency delay, Corona is still faster, and the other workloads where this manifests, like file compression, etc.. are usually very small times regardless. In practical terms, this is more about not using the potential of the CPU to the fullest within certain applications, but still come ahead of the i9.

Now the benefits of 2990WX:

- You can choose from two great boards (MSI MEG and Aorus Xtreme). For x299, there is only recently introduced MSI MEG. Otherwise you're stuck with bunch of 8-phased VRMs for most part.
- In future, next or the following year, you would still be able to upgrade to 48 or even possible 64-core Threadripper. I would say though, that this will only be possible on MSI MEG (or otherwise necessitize X499).
- Excellent thermals. Short of VRMs, for which you have better boards, 2990WX runs much cooler than i9 at comparative clocks. Yes i9 can be clocked slightly higher, but due to AVX instructions, it becomes hell-fire.
- Thus every 2990WX can be overclocked, even on air cooler ! But for i9, you need to win silicon lottery and get a good chip, delid the heatspreader and replace the paste, and then live with terrible accoustics ;- ).

I only kept my i9 because what I am gonna waste time&money now trying to sell it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: ivabox on 2018-12-13, 14:30:06
Thanks for the answer,

What we read from some of the reviews, people claim that AMD crashes much more than intel. Of course speed and performance is important but if the scene crashes a lot, there wont be any meaning. However as you do not comment on it, and also bios updates will cover most of it (as with other threadrippers before)there wont be any problem I guess. thanks again.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-13, 15:03:30
This is first time I ever hear about CPU architecture (AMD in this case) being the cause of crashing. That is some serious nonsense. People with stupid builds, cheap underpowered PSUs, odd idiosyncratic settings in bios, overclocked CPUs beyond VRM capacity, not enough voltage, million stuff where people are only to blame themselves.
Even the people who come to Corona forum with the "Only Corona crashes my PC to blue screen  !!", well no shit, you probably didn't stress your PC before enough with full AVX load (on top of GPU utilization). Your build is to blame, not the software.

Early bios versions are always hassle, but it's purely MB manufacturer's fault, and fully unrelated to CPU.


People also claim the earth is flat, sometimes it's better not to read the internet proletariat with their collective wisdom. I am pretty sure this rumor is from gaming forums because those are most guilty of building crappy PCs and strange settings.


None of my PCs crashed in years. They all are almost 24/7 at 100perc., the workstations at 1000+ Watt each.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-14, 07:22:51
VRM thermal issues... Time to rethink the ASUS ROG STRIX. Should have listened to Juraj.

I have received my Enermax TR4 Gen.2 360. This was an upgrade from my gen.1 280. It let me push the PBO to overclock a good bit further. However, after putting everything in the case (R6) I can see that the thermals on the VRM will be unsustainable.

Testing with prime-95 blend (which goes up and down in terms of stress) the VRM temps are touching 100C, with a 120mm fan 2 inches away blasting at 100%, shit. Running blend the temps get to 103, and are often in the high 80s to low 90s. FTT testing takes the temps to over 100C within 10 min, again with the same fan setup...crazy! Running corona the temp levels out at 94-95C around 30 min, don't think that's sustainable, is it? And its, loud, of course.

I'm attaching a graph, it shows a longer Blend run in prime 95, and then a short FFT run after a period to let everything cool off. It shows the problem very clearly. The performance is great, but the VRM is a disaster.

Juraj, I'm curious what the VRM thermals are like on the MEG? Now that I have a better AIO the VRM are showing themselves to be the weak link. I can still return the ASUS, and given the cash I already have in this system it seems a few hundred more for stability and maximized performance would be worth the tradeoff.

Damnit, I guess its time to tear this thing apart for now.



(https://i.postimg.cc/pLmyb5g6/VRM.jpg)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2018-12-14, 14:08:15
Don't panic :- ). Common mosfets (even average quality ones) are rated for 120C. But lot of circuits around can start to deteroriate at roughly 105C. I see you often pass this peak.

VRM is often poorly cooled by even the best airflow, which is why people come up with all sorts of hacks by trying to point a fan directly onto the VRM. It makes a bit of chaos in overall airflow but can help the temps up to 20C.

Regarding my VRM temps I think I would have to measure it again at different voltages. I really didn't touch that PC at all since I gave it to Veronika. I think they never went above 80.

Definitely try to get some fan pointed at the VRMs. People with Aorus often do so and they have 10 phases for the CPU (versus 8), better heatsink, and most people in this thread under-volted.

Btw, if the noise from Enermax feels annoying, you can swap the native fans for Noctua Sterrox (NF-A12x25). I know it's not budget solution but they're state of art in terms of airflow/accoustics.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2018-12-17, 22:31:01
Don't panic :- ). Common mosfets (even average quality ones) are rated for 120C. But lot of circuits around can start to deteroriate at roughly 105C. I see you often pass this peak.

VRM is often poorly cooled by even the best airflow, which is why people come up with all sorts of hacks by trying to point a fan directly onto the VRM. It makes a bit of chaos in overall airflow but can help the temps up to 20C.

Regarding my VRM temps I think I would have to measure it again at different voltages. I really didn't touch that PC at all since I gave it to Veronika. I think they never went above 80.

Definitely try to get some fan pointed at the VRMs. People with Aorus often do so and they have 10 phases for the CPU (versus 8), better heatsink, and most people in this thread under-volted.

Btw, if the noise from Enermax feels annoying, you can swap the native fans for Noctua Sterrox (NF-A12x25). I know it's not budget solution but they're state of art in terms of airflow/accoustics.

Okay, yes I have calmed down.

Running Corona the VRM seems to stay under 95C with a fan pointed at them. If Vray also stays under 100C (haven't tested yet) then I will likely keep the ROG STRIX board. Im also having an issue where the PC wont wake from sleep using AUS PBO, but if I use Ryzen-master it does. Ill see if i can get that fixed. If not i might consider another board.

Yes, Ill definitely change over to Noctua fans, as these Enermax ones are loud. That being said the Enermax gen.2 seems to be very good. Hopefully, they have worked out all the problems and it won't quickly fail like the Gen.1 versions.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-01-03, 18:08:18
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/01/03/amd_ryzen_threadripper_2990wx_performance_regressions_linked_to_windows_bug

https://bitsum.com/portfolio/coreprio/

For slovak / czech speakers https://www.svethardware.cz/chaby-vykon-threadripperu-2990wx-byl-identifikovan-jako-dusledek-chyby-v-kernelu-windows/48337
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2019-01-03, 23:43:52
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/01/03/amd_ryzen_threadripper_2990wx_performance_regressions_linked_to_windows_bug

https://bitsum.com/portfolio/coreprio/

For slovak / czech speakers https://www.svethardware.cz/chaby-vykon-threadripperu-2990wx-byl-identifikovan-jako-dusledek-chyby-v-kernelu-windows/48337

Seems to slow down Corona benchmark by 2 seconds for me. Doesn't appear to have any impact on Vray benchmark. May still be a good idea to run, either way, to ensure that dynamic local mode is running as a permanent service. For 7-zip there is apparently some benefit.

Anyone else loses a second or two with corona bench?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: maru on 2019-01-04, 11:41:06
<slightly offtopic> looks like some Threadripper prices dropped recently (at least in Europe), which makes them even more affordable</slightly offtopic>
https://geizhals.eu/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1950x-yd195xa8aewof-a1664849.html
https://geizhals.eu/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1920x-yd192xa8aewof-a1664904.html
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-01-06, 11:54:57
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/01/03/amd_ryzen_threadripper_2990wx_performance_regressions_linked_to_windows_bug

https://bitsum.com/portfolio/coreprio/

For slovak / czech speakers https://www.svethardware.cz/chaby-vykon-threadripperu-2990wx-byl-identifikovan-jako-dusledek-chyby-v-kernelu-windows/48337

Seems to slow down Corona benchmark by 2 seconds for me. Doesn't appear to have any impact on Vray benchmark. May still be a good idea to run, either way, to ensure that dynamic local mode is running as a permanent service. For 7-zip there is apparently some benefit.



Anyone else loses a second or two with corona bench?

Corona benchmark is same for me but in cinebench i gained like 100-150 points.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nickmilitello on 2019-01-26, 02:40:20
How did someone get 37 secs bench time.  I have a 2990wx or to 4.0 with 32 go ram and I had a score of 1:12. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2019-01-26, 02:41:57
How did someone get 37 secs bench time.  I have a 2990wx or to 4.0 with 32 go ram and I had a score of 1:12. What am I doing wrong?


I can get 37-39 seconds at 3.8ghz...3200 on memory.

You got 4 DIMM's??? Running quad channel memory? I noticed in my initial testing during the build that having 4 DIMMs (i.e. running quad channel) made a huge difference... Also ram speed makes a difference. Even going from 3200 to 3400 I got a second or two improvement, but can't get anything over 3200 stable.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-02-07, 14:29:16
How did someone get 37 secs bench time.  I have a 2990wx or to 4.0 with 32 go ram and I had a score of 1:12. What am I doing wrong?

Post your pc specs here
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-11, 10:03:10
Got solved in other thread, guy bought slow memory :- ) Fixed it by changing that.

In other news, for MSI MEG users, the file from 1Usmus (1.31Mod) is apparently going to become the stable official release file. I didn't test yet, will be doing systems updates soon.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27779864-post496.html
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jalapeno on 2019-02-12, 11:41:37
Does CL matter here?
With the same money I can buy:
G.SKILL TRIDENTZ 64GB (4X16GB) DDR4 3200MHZ (F43200C14Q64GTZ)
or
G.SKILL TRIDENT Z RGB 64GB DDR4 (F43600C17Q64GTZR)

I'm going to run it on MSI MEG and only first one are on msi supported hw page so thinking about them.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-12, 12:18:36
So i think i'm at a point with my prospective spec i'm happy with.
Anyone seeing any issues or bottlenecks? Id maybe look at faster ram if the price wasn't too much of an increase.


RM850X PSU
Samsung Evo 970 500GB boot drive
64GB Corsair Vengeance 2666mhz RAM
Threadripper 2990wx
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360mm
AORUS X399 Xtreme
RTX 2070
Fractal define R6 Case + 3x additional 140mm fans
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-12, 12:34:06
Does CL matter here?
With the same money I can buy:
G.SKILL TRIDENTZ 64GB (4X16GB) DDR4 3200MHZ (F43200C14Q64GTZ)
or
G.SKILL TRIDENT Z RGB 64GB DDR4 (F43600C17Q64GTZR)

I'm going to run it on MSI MEG and only first one are on msi supported hw page so thinking about them.

Both denote the overall speed of memory, so when it comes to CL14 @3000 vs CL16 @3000, the former is better but won't make drastic difference on Threadripper.
With that said, you won't be able to run more than 3200Mhz @4x16GB capacity on 2990WX, it's simply not stable even with the latest AGESA update. Maybe in future, but not worth the time/risk and additional money on diminishing returns.
There isn't much to be gained after 2933.

Get the cheapest CL14-15 @2933(3000) memory you can get at 4x16GB capacity and instead either save your money or buy more memory.

So i think i'm at a point with my prospective spec i'm happy with.
Anyone seeing any issues or bottlenecks? Id maybe look at faster ram if the price wasn't too much of an increase.

64GB Corsair Vengeance 2666mhz RAM


Likewise, do get 2933MHz (3000), don't go lower ;- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-12, 13:03:18

Likewise, do get 2933MHz (3000), don't go lower ;-).

Corsair do have 3000mhz RAM in the vengeance range i think.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-12, 13:21:58

Likewise, do get 2933MHz (3000), don't go lower ;-).

Corsair do have 3000mhz RAM in the vengeance range i think.

Yup, I run Vengeance myself on 2990WX. There are billion revisions of it, and only some of them might have made it onto QVL lists, but that doesn't mean others won't work. Sometimes new revisions comes almost every few months. If you happen to buy memory that won't run which should be rare with the latest AGESA updates (always run bios update before confirming full compatibility, most boards can run them automatically from USB key).

Whether you buy one denoted as 2933 or 3000 is the very same hardware just different package marketing, both will run at 2933 on Threadripper.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-12, 13:46:37

Likewise, do get 2933MHz (3000), don't go lower ;-).

Corsair do have 3000mhz RAM in the vengeance range i think.

Yup, I run Vengeance myself on 2990WX. There are billion revisions of it, and only some of them might have made it onto QVL lists, but that doesn't mean others won't work. Sometimes new revisions comes almost every few months. If you happen to buy memory that won't run which should be rare with the latest AGESA updates (always run bios update before confirming full compatibility, most boards can run them automatically from USB key).

Whether you buy one denoted as 2933 or 3000 is the very same hardware just different package marketing, both will run at 2933 on Threadripper.

Good to know thank you
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2019-02-12, 19:03:25
So i think i'm at a point with my prospective spec i'm happy with.
Anyone seeing any issues or bottlenecks? Id maybe look at faster ram if the price wasn't too much of an increase.


RM850X PSU
Samsung Evo 970 500GB boot drive
64GB Corsair Vengeance 2666mhz RAM
Threadripper 2990wx
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360mm
AORUS X399 Xtreme
RTX 2070
Fractal define R6 Case + 3x additional 140mm fans

1) Isn't 850W cutting it close for a 2990WX build???

The processor can draw 500W, add the GPU and other stuff and you must be pushing 800W or close already.  If you ever plan on adding a second GPU or anything you may not have enough juice. But then it all depends on if you are overclocking, which you should be for sure with the Enermax. I'm happy with the new Enermax revision, it can do consistent 3.8ghz with PBO @ 475W or so.

2) Also, this video scared me off the Aorus...

t

3) Ram speed does make a difference...if you can get faster ram then do.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jalapeno on 2019-02-13, 09:32:39
If you still have doubts with choosing motherboard check this. Test results are at 10:27
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-13, 14:41:48
Hello all,
I'm little bit confused about the choice of the motherboard, as in the video we can see that the ASUS zenith xtreme got better VRM temps than the AOrus Xtreme x399,the MSI MEG X399 si the best but i'm going to build a GPU/CPU rendering workstation so i need a quad GPU Motherboard,do you have an idea about which one is better for a little bit OC of the 2990wx with good vrm temps ? AORUS XTREME or Zenith Xtreme ?

Also one question i'm using a lot of Corona and gonna use C4D Octane also, it need a lot of single core speed,so i have a question what is the speed of the 2990wx compared to the 2950x in a legacy mode of 1/2 ? i did researchs but i did not understand it.

Comming build : ( 2990WX- ASUS XT REME X399 or AORUS Xtreme X399-Ram 64 GB 4*16GB PREDATOR GSKILL 3000 MHZ- PSU Crosair AX 1600W- RTX 2080TI ASUS TURBO BLOWER EDITION-Noctua NH 14S for now )
Thank you
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-13, 19:04:54
Aorus is clear winner against Zenith (vanilla version, as there is now also Zenith Alpha but it doesn't fit 4 GPUs for the same reasons MSI MEG doesn't, the VRM mosfets push the real estate away and it wouldn't fit into E-ATX format).

Aorus has better VRM and that is more important, you need to actively cool both with good air flow or hack some fan solution on top.

It's incredibly poor state of affairs that MSI MEG and ZENITH ALPHA didn't go for SSI board format as the E-ATX ended up crippling their GPU capability.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-14, 21:53:13
I dont plan on overclocking as ive never done it and obviously we need them to be stable. I might one day. I liked the system on the ASUS Prime with a hardware dial for overclocking that turned up to eleven haha
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: philipb on 2019-02-14, 22:05:44

With the new 'PBO system' its not really overclocking like it used to be, don't think there are any stability issues to worry about anymore. You just turn it on, and it will find the thermal capability of your cooling (enermax is good!) and take it up to that thermal limit safe and stable.

Honestly, if you don't turn on PBO you are just leaving money/power on the table. For the price you paid and the performance these chips are capable of getting an extra 15-20% out of your 2990WX is really not something you should pass up.

Check it out. You just get ryzen master and set the power limit, maybe 400-450 W. That's all. Thought you may need to point a fan at your VRM. I have a cheap ASUS 399-e board (got a deal) and since pointing a fan at the VRM I haven't had any issues running at 3.5-3.8 Ghz.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-15, 15:57:00
Aorus is clear winner against Zenith (vanilla version, as there is now also Zenith Alpha but it doesn't fit 4 GPUs for the same reasons MSI MEG doesn't, the VRM mosfets push the real estate away and it wouldn't fit into E-ATX format).

Aorus has better VRM and that is more important, you need to actively cool both with good air flow or hack some fan solution on top.

It's incredibly poor state of affairs that MSI MEG and ZENITH ALPHA didn't go for SSI board format as the E-ATX ended up crippling their GPU capability.
I asked for price and the MSI MEG X399 is cheaper in my country then the AORUS by almost 80dollars, do you know if we can use a PCI-E slit riser in the MSI MEG X399 to expand to  a quad GPU Setup?
The VRM can be safe on a 4ghz overclock or 4.1GHZ( 2990wx ) in an AORUS xtreme and NOCTUA fans for air cooling the case ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-15, 16:21:23
4.0-4.1 would be pushing it, but you don't mention what CPU cooler would be or how you would intend to cool the VRM. Have a look at Peter Sanitra build in this thread.

Yeah you can use risers believe, but if you opt for 4x2080(Ti), you will have to use two risers as the NVLink bridge is hardpiece.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-18, 14:31:23
For cooling i don't know how to build a watercooling system neither the part needed , so i m thinking about using the corsair a150i pro for this cpu; do you have any idea about it?
IF you have any watercooling system under 350USD it will be usefull
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-18, 16:08:11
For cooling i don't know how to build a watercooling system neither the part needed , so i m thinking about using the corsair a150i pro for this cpu; do you have any idea about it?
IF you have any watercooling system under 250USD it will be usefull

Enermax LiqTech TR4 offers better die coverage
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-18, 19:24:11
For cooling i don't know how to build a watercooling system neither the part needed , so i m thinking about using the corsair a150i pro for this cpu; do you have any idea about it?
IF you have any watercooling system under 250USD it will be usefull

Enermax LiqTech TR4 offers better die coverage
Yes but even the REV 2 are reported to be failling
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-18, 23:27:48
Will i finally decided to buy the MSI MEG X399- instead of the Aorus , for the box my wife she is in love with the Cooler master C700P ( you know that RGB  ....), so one thing left, it s the cooling, i will buy the Noctua NH 14S for now and then upgrade to a watercooling system, does someones have a part lists ready for the 2990WX ?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-19, 15:26:41
Will i finally decided to buy the MSI MEG X399- instead of the Aorus , for the box my wife she is in love with the Cooler master C700P ( you know that RGB  ....), so one thing left, it s the cooling, i will buy the Noctua NH 14S for now and then upgrade to a watercooling system, does someones have a part lists ready for the 2990WX ?

I had the c700p. Fantastic case. Though its worth noting its not great space wise as the top rails touch the underside of standard desk height leaving minimal airflow gap for the radiator if you mount it at the top. Also be careful as theres a tiny plastic notch that the glass panel locks onto that is far too easily broken.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-19, 20:51:38
Well i the case C700P is out of stock, i'm thinking about the Lian Li PC 11 AIR, little probleme the Noctua NH 14S do not fit, anyone have a solution in mind ? thank's for the help
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-20, 00:21:21
One warning, the heatsink on MSI MEG is massive... so the issue jppapers mentions is amplified in almost all cases that were not specifically made for high-end custom watercooling. The board basically needs high upper top, or the board to be positioned slightly lower in the case (so we're talking the bigger out of available big towers). It's very easy to obstruct this board with top radiator+fans. The Case either needs to be tall...or wide.

Definitely do not put this system into case that can't even fit Noctua tower.

If you want to stay with AIR, why not just go with good-old Fractal Define ? If you want option to high-end water cooling, look at cases Peter Sanitra and I bought quite some pages back.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-20, 01:13:32
One warning, the heatsink on MSI MEG is massive... so the issue jppapers mentions is amplified in almost all cases that were not specifically made for high-end custom watercooling. The board basically needs high upper top, or the board to be positioned slightly lower in the case (so we're talking the bigger out of available big towers). It's very easy to obstruct this board with top radiator+fans. The Case either needs to be tall...or wide.

Definitely do not put this system into case that can't even fit Noctua tower.

If you want to stay with AIR, why not just go with good-old Fractal Define ? If you want option to high-end water cooling, look at cases Peter Sanitra and I bought quite some pages back.
The lian li 11 AIR  it's the case that Peter Sanitra have, it's a very good case with good reviews but i can not fit inside it the noctua nh 14s - i want to start my build with an air cool then upgrade to a high end water cooling system later
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: orion on 2019-02-20, 02:05:03
One warning, the heatsink on MSI MEG is massive... so the issue jppapers mentions is amplified in almost all cases that were not specifically made for high-end custom watercooling. The board basically needs high upper top, or the board to be positioned slightly lower in the case (so we're talking the bigger out of available big towers). It's very easy to obstruct this board with top radiator+fans. The Case either needs to be tall...or wide.

Definitely do not put this system into case that can't even fit Noctua tower.

If you want to stay with AIR, why not just go with good-old Fractal Define ? If you want option to high-end water cooling, look at cases Peter Sanitra and I bought quite some pages back.
I also like your case Jura the Thermaltake View 71, but as i understood i can not fit inside it 2 radioators ( side/top ) and keep 2 HDD+ 2SSD mounted; ...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-02-20, 12:30:31
Ah yes...I forgot mouting HDDs, something I haven't done in years :- ). I don't actually know how many you can mount on the back... I really never check this, good thing you considered it before buying :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-02-20, 21:45:32
One warning, the heatsink on MSI MEG is massive... so the issue jppapers mentions is amplified in almost all cases that were not specifically made for high-end custom watercooling. The board basically needs high upper top, or the board to be positioned slightly lower in the case (so we're talking the bigger out of available big towers). It's very easy to obstruct this board with top radiator+fans. The Case either needs to be tall...or wide.

Definitely do not put this system into case that can't even fit Noctua tower.

If you want to stay with AIR, why not just go with good-old Fractal Define ? If you want option to high-end water cooling, look at cases Peter Sanitra and I bought quite some pages back.

My new builds im using the define r6. Seems like a pretty solid case and the reviews say theyre well built and plenty of options for cable management.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: dfcorona on 2019-02-26, 04:04:50
What do you guys think of the MASTERLIQUID ML360 RGB TR4 EDITION for cooling?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2019-02-27, 07:39:57
I have read on some reviews that its poor build quality and made of plastic which is pron to brake after a while. Haven’t used it myself though...
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: dfcorona on 2019-02-27, 08:13:45
What do you guys think of the MASTERLIQUID ML360 RGB TR4 EDITION for cooling?
wow, yes you are right. Total junk, they use plastic for the mounting onto the CPU which seems to break for most. Damn there really isn't a good AIO out there for 2990wx.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2019-02-28, 08:01:25
Personally I would go for a Enermax liqtech edition 2 360 or 280. There is the whole story of edition 1 having leaking issues and seems that even some people have this problem with the revision 2. I do own an edition 1 280 for more then 14 months now on a 1950x and thus far no issues at all. So its a loterry... But seems that all problems start within the warranty period so I guess if you have any you could solve them with that. Thats the only viable budget option if you want “serious” overclocking. The other route is custom loop so prepare for 400-700 euro expenses down the line.

I decided to sit out the whole TR2 generation and see what june/july 2019 brings up. I guess new boards and coolers will be introduced then for Tr3/ryzen 3000 and there will be more new aio’s.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: tallbox on 2019-03-13, 09:35:25
Hi guys,
I am looking to get a new single slave for my day to day renderings. Which one would work better with max-corona
I have a budget of 4ooo euros. I have 1080 already so I don't need to buy one.

PS: I have read all the previous pages, so the clear winner is 2990wx. Thanks for the great thread
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: DUMNY on 2019-03-20, 20:24:22
Hello, all corona freaks

For several weeks I have been working on a new machine that I have made myself. The rendering engines I mainly use are v-ray and of course corona. Vray benchmark definitely satisfies me, unfortunately the corona benchmark is a total failure. My score on stock settings is 47 seconds. My second weaker computer has a score of 42 seconds. In addition, when comparing both of these computers in other benchmarks, they show that the set with AMD is much better, but the corona does not confirm it. What is the reason for this?
My computer composition is:

CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
motherboard - ASUS ROG zenith extreme alpha
GPU - GeForce RTX 2080Ti Dual 11GB DDR6
COOLING CPU - EVGA CLC 280
RAM - Corsair DDR4 128GB 2666-16 Vengeance LPX
POWER SUPPLY - Corsair HX1200 1200W

Thank you in advance for your help! :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lolec on 2019-03-20, 21:21:35
I would recomend you do more research on RAM.

Threadripper (and it looks like specially corona) are extremely sensitive to ram frequency / # of channels.

I'm too lazy to do a full research but I can give you a summary of my experience using 128gb of Corsair Vengance memory with the 2990wx.

Although I have 3200MHz memory, I couldn't get it to work over 3000 MHz (again, to lazy to tweak and tweak)

These are Corona Benchmark results as a refference.

Single stick at 3000MHz ( 1:12)
2 sticks at 3000MHz (1:08)
4 sticks at 3000MHz (0:38)
8 sticks at 3000MHz  (Blue screen :( )
8 sticks at 2166MHZ (1.06)

As you can see, you need to populate 4 channels to reach the full potential of the processor (not a problem since you are planning to populate all of them... however, frequency also has a big impact)

I'm not sure why I couldn't make all 8 sticks to work at 3000, someone said the corsair vengance might not me the most compatible modules.

My recomendation would be to get 3200MHz momory and reasearch which brand works best to ensure you can run 8 of them at that freq.


Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: DUMNY on 2019-03-21, 10:27:48
I know, I have read on the corona forum about this memory. The only thing that puzzles me is that my second computer (2x XEON E5-2696) in every benchmark is a lot slower, but when it comes to the corona amd 2990wx definitely loses. For me, the conclusion is very simple - it is not memory problem in my case, because in other tests the processor counts without major problems.
For me, corona render makes AMD 2990wx so slow, but I do not know what the exact reason is. Do you have any other explanation for this phenomenon? Why exactly corona causes such a problem?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2019-03-21, 12:41:06
I know, I have read on the corona forum about this memory. The only thing that puzzles me is that my second computer (2x XEON E5-2696) in every benchmark is a lot slower, but when it comes to the corona amd 2990wx definitely loses. For me, the conclusion is very simple - it is not memory problem in my case, because in other tests the processor counts without major problems.
For me, corona render makes AMD 2990wx so slow, but I do not know what the exact reason is. Do you have any other explanation for this phenomenon? Why exactly corona causes such a problem?

The Zen architecture is heavily dependent on memory speed and latency. This is even more crucial with Threadripper due to the infinity fabric link of the CCX core modules. The issue you are having is because the IMC of the 2990wx cannot handle 128gb of RAM at high speeds. The best RAM speed you are likely to get with 128gb is 2933mhz @ CL14 latency, however looking at the RAM you've listed you're aren't going to get close to these figures.

Intel chips are monolithic (i.e no links between separate core modules), therefore RAM speeds do not affect the chips as much.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-03-21, 14:43:32
Hello, all corona freaks

For several weeks I have been working on a new machine that I have made myself. The rendering engines I mainly use are v-ray and of course corona. Vray benchmark definitely satisfies me, unfortunately the corona benchmark is a total failure. My score on stock settings is 47 seconds. My second weaker computer has a score of 42 seconds. In addition, when comparing both of these computers in other benchmarks, they show that the set with AMD is much better, but the corona does not confirm it. What is the reason for this?
My computer composition is:

CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
motherboard - ASUS ROG zenith extreme alpha
GPU - GeForce RTX 2080Ti Dual 11GB DDR6
COOLING CPU - EVGA CLC 280
RAM - Corsair DDR4 128GB 2666-16 Vengeance LPX
POWER SUPPLY - Corsair HX1200 1200W

Thank you in advance for your help! :)

Thats crazy, im running the same system here pretty much. Discouraging after paying $6300 CAD for it. On the flip side, im able to render out a pretty heavy exterior scene at 4K in about 45 mins with about 2% noise level. About to run the bechmark to see what i get.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: tallbox on 2019-03-21, 16:34:04
Hello, all corona freaks

For several weeks I have been working on a new machine that I have made myself. The rendering engines I mainly use are v-ray and of course corona. Vray benchmark definitely satisfies me, unfortunately the corona benchmark is a total failure. My score on stock settings is 47 seconds. My second weaker computer has a score of 42 seconds. In addition, when comparing both of these computers in other benchmarks, they show that the set with AMD is much better, but the corona does not confirm it. What is the reason for this?
My computer composition is:

CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
motherboard - ASUS ROG zenith extreme alpha
GPU - GeForce RTX 2080Ti Dual 11GB DDR6
COOLING CPU - EVGA CLC 280
RAM - Corsair DDR4 128GB 2666-16 Vengeance LPX
POWER SUPPLY - Corsair HX1200 1200W

Thank you in advance for your help! :)

Thats crazy, im running the same system here pretty much. Discouraging after paying $6300 CAD for it. On the flip side, im able to render out a pretty heavy exterior scene at 4K in about 45 mins with about 2% noise level. About to run the bechmark to see what i get.
I have ordered a very similar build a few days ago and tomorrow is arriving. I've checked corona benchmark for 2990wx and it gets decent results, where do you see problems with the speed? P
PS: Thanks to the forum I purchased 2933 mhz memory.
Cheers guys
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Eugene Danin on 2019-03-21, 19:18:46
for MSI MEG 1.32 https://www.overclock.net/forum/27892538-post706.html (https://www.overclock.net/forum/27892538-post706.html)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: DUMNY on 2019-03-22, 02:08:01
I'll show you what I mean the last time. Because I have the impression that either I do not understand you or you me: P. Look at the results of my two computers - 3 simple tests, I can do more if you want.

AMD 2990WX

cinebench 15R - 4900-5000 score
V-ray benchmark - 27 sec.
Corona render - 45 sec - 60 sec (here completely do these times differ from each other)

2x XEON E5-2696
cinebench 15R - 4250-4300 score
V-ray benchmark - 35 sec.
Corona render - 43 sec - 45 sec

You say that I have too slow RAM, but what does it refer to this comparison? In all tests, I should have a problem, not only with corona renderer. Maybe it's a matter of windows 10, or maybe some other setting that affects counting processes in the corona. The worst thing about all this is that I use this engine most often in recent times.:/
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: tallbox on 2019-03-22, 12:30:54
I'll show you what I mean the last time. Because I have the impression that either I do not understand you or you me: P. Look at the results of my two computers - 3 simple tests, I can do more if you want.

AMD 2990WX

cinebench 15R - 4900-5000 score
V-ray benchmark - 27 sec.
Corona render - 45 sec - 60 sec (here completely do these times differ from each other)

2x XEON E5-2696
cinebench 15R - 4250-4300 score
V-ray benchmark - 35 sec.
Corona render - 43 sec - 45 sec

You say that I have too slow RAM, but what does it refer to this comparison? In all tests, I should have a problem, not only with corona renderer. Maybe it's a matter of windows 10, or maybe some other setting that affects counting processes in the corona. The worst thing about all this is that I use this engine most often in recent times.:/

Hi, have you checked this if it's working for you: https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cpus/coreprio-tool-near-doubles-threadripper-2990wx-performance/1/
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2019-03-22, 16:18:55
I'll show you what I mean the last time. Because I have the impression that either I do not understand you or you me: P. Look at the results of my two computers - 3 simple tests, I can do more if you want.

AMD 2990WX

cinebench 15R - 4900-5000 score
V-ray benchmark - 27 sec.
Corona render - 45 sec - 60 sec (here completely do these times differ from each other)

2x XEON E5-2696
cinebench 15R - 4250-4300 score
V-ray benchmark - 35 sec.
Corona render - 43 sec - 45 sec

You say that I have too slow RAM, but what does it refer to this comparison? In all tests, I should have a problem, not only with corona renderer. Maybe it's a matter of windows 10, or maybe some other setting that affects counting processes in the corona. The worst thing about all this is that I use this engine most often in recent times.:/

Hi, have you checked this if it's working for you: https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cpus/coreprio-tool-near-doubles-threadripper-2990wx-performance/1/

An interesting test would be to see how to 2950x stacks up against the 2990wx at the same frequency. This would indicate if there is indeed a bottleneck in corona with the 2990wx's memory sharing configuration.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-03-29, 06:52:31
I've been through this entire thread twice, and I still can't make up my mind on which mobo to buy for two new 2990WX builds I am planning: Aorus Xtreme or MEG Creation.

I need help to decide! These machines will be rendering 24/7, they will not be used as a workstation, I doubt that I will even install a video card or anything more than a small HD in them. All I care about is sound pollution and getting the fastest speed possible with cooling.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2019-03-29, 16:27:43
I've been through this entire thread twice, and I still can't make up my mind on which mobo to buy for two new 2990WX builds I am planning: Aorus Xtreme or MEG Creation.

I need help to decide! These machines will be rendering 24/7, they will not be used as a workstation, I doubt that I will even install a video card or anything more than a small HD in them. All I care about is sound pollution and getting the fastest speed possible with cooling.

The MEG creation is the only board X399 board I'd buy if I was overclocking the 2990wx. Every other board's VRM configuration is woefully unequipped for the amount of power these processors require.

Can you hold off until September-ish? The new 7nm Threadrippers will be launching which will offer huge power/cooling benefits. And fingers crossed they'll up the core count to 48 or even 64 cores.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-03-29, 19:40:48
I would love to wait until September, but unfortunately I need to render the bulk of my short film over the next 6 months or so.

Thank you for your recommendation, I think that I will go for the MEG Creation then.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-01, 18:40:28
Well, as an owner of MSI MEG, I can tell you the board is finally worry-free after like eternity of updates :- ). It was stable early for me but lot of other users experienced issues here and there (RAID,etc..). It's 100perc. ok now.

But you also mention that it's not going to be your workstation, and in such case it doesn't matter that much which board you'll get. Without over-clocking (or mild one) Aorus is just as good and comes with inbuilt 10gbit card, which is no small thing that saves 100 bucks and space on board. The VRM does need (or heavily benefits from) cooling (by very good airflow or fan pointed on it, ideally from back side too) though if water loop is used (like Peter Sanitra's build) or with Air cooler like Noctua which does it by itself partly you only need to tinker with clocks/voltage ratio to arrive at ideal compromise between speed and temps/noise (like Michal Timko's build later in thread).

I personally still suggest the MSI though. The over-built VRM brings additional peace of mind and simplicity esp. for 24/7 running. You can simply just count on it and you don't need to cool it or tinker around with anything.

The latest, ultra-overpriced addition to x399 family, Asus (Zenith) Alpha is basically like older Zenith but with better VRM cooling (the actual capacitators and configuration of them is absolutely the same, just 8 phases). If the price was better, it would be solid contender against Aorus, but with the price as it is, not so much.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: JulioCayetano on 2019-04-01, 19:47:21
Hi,

We are building our new workstation, based on all the useful info we have been reading on this forum. I just wanted to give big thanks to all of you that have shared your experience on this long thread. We are going for the 2990wx partly because we are already happy with the last PC we built based with the 1950X and because of your positive feedback.

Our parts are these:

-MoBo: Gigabyte Aourus X399 Xtreme.
-AMD: Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx.
-RAM: 128gb Corsair Vengeance LPX 2933 CL16
-Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C.
-CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3.
-PSU: Corsair AX1600i
-SSD: Samsung 970 Pro
-GPU: Old Nvidia Titan.

Our plan is to use it as a workstation during working hours, not only as a render machine. So I hope the speed in 3DsMAX, Photoshop, etc. will be decent. At least as good as the 1950X.   

I´d like to ask one question about the OS. I was gonna buy a new Windows 10 pro license, and I´ve noticed that now you have the option to buy a new version called: Windows 10 pro for Workstations. I don´t really undesrtand the extra features that they comment on the shop site, so I´m not sure if that new version is necessary for the kind of PC we´re building with the 2990wx. Have any of you bought such version? Any advantages for the kind of use we will give to our PC?

Thanks in advance

Julio
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-01, 20:23:47
The difference is it doesn't come with CandyCrush Saga :- ).

Currently it's just rebranded Enterprise that you can actually purchase as end-user. From the differences (Refs, non-volative memory support, up to 4x CPUs,...) none are actually applicable to you (or anyone here). It's possible...that in future Microsoft will cripple the Pro version so that Xeons will only work under Workstation/Enterprise edition, but it's not the case right now. And with Threadripper, it's moot argument anyway.

There is one superficial difference, the "ultra" energy mode, but you can actually unlock it on Pro version as well. I haven't noticed any difference by using it. (You can google the simple steps to unlock, it's 2 minute operation).

Just get (OEM/Volume) 10 Pro on ebay for 5 bucks. (Yes, grey market is absolutely 100perc. legal for buyer, in European Union it's not even grey )
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: JulioCayetano on 2019-04-01, 21:41:17
Hi Juraj,

Thanks a lot for your fast answer. Really useful for us.

I forgot to write that we´re not planning any overclock, or a very mild one via PBO system as I read in this thread that is a good and stable way of using more of the potential of the 2990wx. So, with Aourus Xtreme, Noctua cooler and that Define R6 case, we should have no problem with temps, right? I´m a bit concerned about cooling the VRM part, because I´ve never done it before. Could you please point me to any example or tutorial so I can have an idea of the process, what kind of fan and where/how to fix it to the case. Thanks a lot in advance.

Btw, I must say that I´m still laughing about the Cundy Crush Saga comment :D
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-01, 22:06:17
Hi Juraj,

Thanks a lot for your fast answer. Really useful for us.

I forgot to write that we´re not planning any overclock, or a very mild one via PBO system as I read in this thread that is a good and stable way of using more of the potential of the 2990wx. So, with Aourus Xtreme, Noctua cooler and that Define R6 case, we should have no problem with temps, right? I´m a bit concerned about cooling the VRM part, because I´ve never done it before. Could you please point me to any example or tutorial so I can have an idea of the process, what kind of fan and where/how to fix it to the case. Thanks a lot in advance.

Btw, I must say that I´m still laughing about the Cundy Crush Saga comment :D

I am not aware sadly of any aftermarket ready to use VRM cooling solution. People just point fan onto it using some hand-made solution usually.  Good case air-flow is quite sufficient as long as the over-clock is mild (using PBO it has to be as you won't be tinkering with voltage manually). R6 is perfect case and the best airflow is if you remove the top (and mount fans), although that removes the accoustic benefit of the case.

On Aorus, removing the plastic cover helps in airflow (there are tiny 40mm fans underneath, I wonder how loud are they. You could probably swap those for Noctua versions if it would be the case).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: JulioCayetano on 2019-04-02, 01:00:41
Thanks again for the info. Very useful again.

I´ll certainly try to take that plastic cover off and check those tiny fans.

About the case airflow, and maybe this is stupid question, you mean mounting fans on the top pointing upwards, to pull the hot air out of the case, right? Thanks
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-02, 01:14:06
Yes exactly, the top ones are almost exclusively used as exhaust fans (pulling direction out of case). Because you have nVidia Titan, which is blower style GPU (it pushes hot air out of the case instead of inside like after-market versions), you don't need to sweat the airflow too much but of course it never hurts to improve it :- ).

For Define R6, best accoustics but worse temperatures is top closed. Good compromise in accoustics/temps is top opened but no fans populated and best temperatures/airflow but worse accoustics is top open and populated with exhaust fans.

If you decide to populate the top with two exhaust fans, put two more fan on the bottom as well. This is so you keep positive pressure balance inside case to avoid dust build-up.
(If this sounds like too many fans, they can run at lower speed, the noise will be coming from fans mounted on CPU heatsink (U14S) anyway since those will spin fastest.)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-04-02, 01:38:43
Well, as an owner of MSI MEG, I can tell you the board is finally worry-free after like eternity of updates :- ). It was stable early for me but...

Thanks again for your time in writing this :D
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nikomo on 2019-04-02, 02:45:22
Hello
i had 2 memory dimms of DDR 4 kingston hyper-x 2133 16gb from my old setup, decieded to buy 2990wx + MSI x399 creation, saw many rewievs that this combination works well.
the setup i got:
- MSI MEG x399 CREATION
- AMD Threadripper 2990WX
- PSU Seasonic Prime Titanum 850W (saw videos where this setup works even with 550W psu)
- Cooling - Cooler Master Wraith Ripper
- 2x16 Kingston Hyper-X Fury Red 2133 (old, but worked well on previous setup)
- SSD for OS - samsung evo 970 250 gb
- Video - 1050ti
I flashed latest BIOS, installed fresh windows, all motherboard drivers, installed RYZEN master, set power mode balanced for ryzen amd.
After that decieded to run some tests, and i saw that all of benchmarks showed very low results, and every time i try it shows another result.
In corona benchmark i got from 1 minute to 2 minutes. Rays per second jump from 3 millions to 6 millions, every run - different amount.
In cinebench R15 i got 3200 (very low)
Cpu-z 1.88 bench shows 17000
When loaded i can hear high squeaky noise (like phone charger)
I also tried to work in usual 3ds max scene, when i start interactive render, whole computer starts lagging (feels like throttling, but its running on 55 degrees C, 3400 all cores)
Usual rendering is also very slow
This is my first AMD processor, and i didn't touch anything in BIOS (except from FAN profile)
Please can someone tell me what am i doing wrong?
Watched million videos/read number of threads, works well for anyone except me.
Attaching all tests i did
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: tallbox on 2019-04-02, 06:39:22
Hello
i had 2 memory dimms of DDR 4 kingston hyper-x 2133 16gb from my old setup, decieded to buy 2990wx + MSI x399 creation, saw many rewievs that this combination works well.
the setup i got:
- MSI MEG x399 CREATION
- AMD Threadripper 2990WX
- PSU Seasonic Prime Titanum 850W (saw videos where this setup works even with 550W psu)
- Cooling - Cooler Master Wraith Ripper
- 2x16 Kingston Hyper-X Fury Red 2133 (old, but worked well on previous setup)
- SSD for OS - samsung evo 970 250 gb
- Video - 1050ti
I flashed latest BIOS, installed fresh windows, all motherboard drivers, installed RYZEN master, set power mode balanced for ryzen amd.
After that decieded to run some tests, and i saw that all of benchmarks showed very low results, and every time i try it shows another result.
In corona benchmark i got from 1 minute to 2 minutes. Rays per second jump from 3 millions to 6 millions, every run - different amount.
In cinebench R15 i got 3200 (very low)
Cpu-z 1.88 bench shows 17000
When loaded i can hear high squeaky noise (like phone charger)
I also tried to work in usual 3ds max scene, when i start interactive render, whole computer starts lagging (feels like throttling, but its running on 55 degrees C, 3400 all cores)
Usual rendering is also very slow
This is my first AMD processor, and i didn't touch anything in BIOS (except from FAN profile)
Please can someone tell me what am i doing wrong?
Watched million videos/read number of threads, works well for anyone except me.
Attaching all tests i did

This looks like your system is throttling by some reason (maybe the Wraith Ripper, not sure). The Ryzen Master does not show real temperatures. Download HWinfo x64 and check there. It might be the case the CPU reaches 116-119 degrees, which was the problem with my CPU last week. I had to upgrade to full custom water cooling because the AIO pump wasn't enough to support a clock of 3.6ghz. (heat wise) In my case I was reaching 5200 points on Cinebench R15 but with corona was between 43 and 49 seconds (more trials = more heat = less efficiency)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: diffuus on 2019-04-02, 09:47:56
You should use 4 sticks of DDR4 instead of 2.
TR is a quad channel design, so you basically limits its power to half by using dual channel memory.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nikomo on 2019-04-02, 13:03:59
You should use 4 sticks of DDR4 instead of 2.
TR is a quad channel design, so you basically limits its power to half by using dual channel memory.
Ok, should i buy new 4x8 set of faster ram, or do i just add another 2 dimms of the same ram i have(2133 kingston hyperx)?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-02, 16:38:41
Truth be told, if you already spent the money on 2990WX and MSI MEG, both very pricey things, you shouldn't skimp on memory.

The good thing is, DDR4 memory is finally a lot cheaper than last year, in fact I just bought another 64GB set from Crucial (Ballistics 4x16GB CL15 2993Mhz) for 400 Euro on Amazon. I paid for the same set almost 700 last September !.

For Threadripper, to have quad-channel memory of at least 2933Mhz (for 2990WX this is still the stable maximum for 64GB+ capacity in 16GB modules, otherwise 3200MHz is reachable with latest AGESA update for lesser capacity) is absolutely paramount, the performance with memory intensive software like Corona absolutely depends on it. There is no other way to get full performance out of your 2990WX.

Sell what you have, buy different one.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: balatschaka on 2019-04-02, 17:15:26
I've got a boring MSI SLI x399 and old GeiL 4x16Gb Dragon 2666 Ram and it runs almost alright(51s Corona Benchmark).
With your 2133Mhz Ram, don't you get lots of VFB Window flickering and freezes? Anyway it's definitely the ram.

Remember to put them into the primary slots and enable the xmp profile.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-04-04, 03:54:50
I see some amazing deals for 2990WX's on eBay, like between $400 - $600 below the retail price. The item descriptions say new but repackaged.

What are people's thoughts on this? is there a way to know if a CPU has been used simply by looking at it (assuming it was cleaned of all thermal paste)?

[Edit]
I got this response from the seller when I asked if this really is too good to be true:
"I know it seems to good to be true but it truly isnt... I bough them at liquidation the exterior packaging was opened causing them to become technically “open box” they have never been used on a motherboard and the open box reduces the value unfortunately... I’ll guarantee you that you won’t find another one at this price as I’m trying to flip them quickly.."

This auction was posted 3 days ago.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-04, 09:35:03
Always ask for personalized photo when in doubt, always pay with PayPal for cash-back security, but quite often these deals are true. 30-40perc. discount isn't unheard of on unboxed, opened HW items.
That's why I am always looking up for deals :- ).

In fact, the deal has to be at least 30perc. +/- better as you can't do tax write-off (22perc. for me) of second-hand items from sites like these (the sellers are rarely tax registered).

The good thing with Threadripper is it wouldn't even matter if it was used, there is no way to run it at high-voltage or damage the pins (as they are on board :- ). Check the deal thoroughly and if it appears safe, go for it.

BTW the box is terrible in fact, when my brand new 2990WX arrived from HW e-shop, the chip was floating inside that massive box because it doesn't really hold it tight. I almost got heart attack when I saw it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-04-08, 01:06:23
Going to get set of 64gb ram and as far as i know, Zen works "best" with b-die .

Its worth throwing 300eur more for 3200 CL14 just solely for 3ds max and rendering purposes compared to 3200 CL16 ? Did some research but most of it is comparison in games.

btw : found B-die finder https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-10, 13:08:17
I would say no, but would be interesting if you changed the timings only in bios and tested. It's not so much the price alone, but you could buy 128GB set of the cheaper one almost.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-04-10, 19:25:32
Just bought F4-3000C14Q-64GVK (b-die) for 400e (bazos).

They worked out straight away with just with XMP enabled and  they are running at 3000/14. I wasnt able to OC my old set, it was running at 2666/16 even with CL15 specs.

There is zero difference compared to my old 32GB set (2666/15) in CB R20 and Corona benchmark is slightly faster (47s vs 43s).

Aida screens if someone is interested

3000/14 https://bit.ly/2uXQBik
2666/16 https://bit.ly/2G27pd5



Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-10, 20:07:56
I vaguely remember testing my 3000 CL15 kit at CL18 as that was XMP2 profile and I don't think it did perceivable difference to a point that frequency did. No one quote me on that though...it was half year ago.

Nice kit, I saw it there too on Bazos browsing :- ). This G-Skill set was there for a while.  There was actually even 2990WX for 1200 euros, I was watching that one just for fun (waiting for TR3 instead) and eventually it got bought.
Always suggest browsing it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2019-04-11, 11:53:12
Jumping back in the thread quickly, I came across a new aio/hybrid LC from Alphacool and wondered if anyone had it in their system? you have to buy a separate TR4 mount so I was wondering if it covered the entire processor?

https://www.alphacool.com/eisbaer-extreme-280-black-edition-cpu-aio (https://www.alphacool.com/eisbaer-extreme-280-black-edition-cpu-aio)

Its pretty expensive (£260) but the reviews sound really good for the 18core i9. I moved into a shared office space and the fan noise has been causing some issues for someone (really wasn't that bad lol) so I have had to run my 2990wx stock 250w which is not ideal.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-11, 12:05:32
It won't cover the die, mounting plate is only so the screws would reach. It also wouldn't be that silent despite what reviews say, those fans can reach 48dB for full performance, that's jet engine coupled it would be on top of the case.

AIOs aren't silent by default, they're silent if you decide to run it at <250W as well, or they're decently loud but can help you reach higher overclock. To get both at same time, you have to go with much more overbuilt custom loop.
I think lot of hardware reviewers have very relative standards when writing what they consider "silent", but decibels don't lie.

I would still look only at TR4 dedicated AIOs, nothing else.

I can empathize with people who are annoyed by the buzzing, I recently even installed accoustic foam underneath table and against the wall to dim the noise pitch into more tolerable range. And we run our workstations extremely silent by most standard with Sonos constantly playing something but still.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2019-04-11, 12:24:02
Ah ok thats a shame, theres no way im paying that much if it doesnt cover the entire CPU. The sound is almost silent now so it should be fine with office relations, It's actually the motherboard that seems to be the noisy part now.

Maybe once TR3 comes out there will be a better AIO solution.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-11, 12:54:57
I still see some horror stories from Liqtech II on AMD reddit, so I don't really know what to actually suggest.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-04-12, 11:27:08
As i said in my previous post, my CB score didnt changed BUT i noticed that with new RAM modules, clock is capped at 3.0 while rendering. Honestly, i dont know if i had same situation with my old mem set but as far as i know, this cpu can hit 3.3-3.4 at stock speeds so i was curious whats happening. Went to bios, turned off XMP profile and boom, cores are peaking up to 3.4 and my CB score (R20) went from 10 900 to 11 440. Thats rougly 5% difference. 5% is like +- 2.5-3min difference while doing 1hour render. Doesnt matter much for me but im curious if its worth to run on 3000mhz/cl14 then if only noticable difference is lower CB score.

Im not into overclocking that much, i have basic knowledge but any ideas whats happening ? They are running now at 2133/CL15. If i enable XMP back, cores are capped at 3.0 again. Also, while rendering, my PPT is at 100% limit (250w). I think it wasnt red before but again, wasnt paying that much attention to it before.

EDIT : Apparently, only Cinebench is hitting 100% PPT while peak speed is always 3.3ghz. I can hit 3.4ghz peak speed while rendering one of my scenes and PPT is at 88% in corona.  If i enable XMP its back on 3.0ghz max and PPT is 100% again even in Corona.

This is kinda weird if you ask me.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-12, 13:11:29
You could try manually inputting all the timings and clock for memory without having XMP set it for you (it sets all sort of other stuff as well, potentially overriding your overclock/power settings).

AVX code is still affecting AMD architecture in Corona, so there will never be absolute parity with something like Cinebench or Vray, I've asked devs multiple times about this and there is no way they can get rid of it due to their compiler.
3.3-3.4 +/- is the correct all-core speed roughly for 250W ceiling/default settings.

I had all sorts of odd shanenigans where the Spectre hot-fixes bundled with regular Windows updates (every 3 months +/-) would cap the 2990WX clock at 3.0 for 250W all-core due to affecting power settings. But outside of that, no issue with memory clock/timings. This sounds like XMP-profile/AVX-turbo issue.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-04-12, 14:08:23
You could try manually inputting all the timings and clock for memory without having XMP set it for you (it sets all sort of other stuff as well, potentially overriding your overclock/power settings).

AVX code is still affecting AMD architecture in Corona, so there will never be absolute parity with something like Cinebench or Vray, I've asked devs multiple times about this and there is no way they can get rid of it due to their compiler.
3.3-3.4 +/- is the correct all-core speed roughly for 250W ceiling/default settings.

I had all sorts of odd shanenigans where the Spectre hot-fixes bundled with regular Windows updates (every 3 months +/-) would cap the 2990WX clock at 3.0 for 250W all-core due to affecting power settings. But outside of that, no issue with memory clock/timings. This sounds like XMP-profile/AVX-turbo issue.

Yea, shortly after my post i set frequency to 2933 manually and put 14/14/14/34 while voltage remained at auto (1.35) and im getting 1480-1500 points now, so you are right, its something wrong with XMP profile. PPT is hitting 100% again while rendering in Corona but at least, CB score is same. I think i hit ceiling with memory and stock CPU clock.

 Also noticed that if i set offset to -0.125mv like before, it cuts my score by 200 points which wasnt the case before with old memory set. Undervolting wasnt affecting performance but now it does. However, temp is sitting at 58-59C now which is okay i guess (was 49-51 with undervolting).

My decision now is all about silent + cooler PC with little performance drop vs stock voltage, little perfomance boost but noisy case. 58-59C is that stupid treshold where fans are starting to blow up quite a lot. Or even setting everything to default, i dont really feel any performance gain. At 2133mhz clock, CPU runs cooler and i cant really see any difference between 3000 and 2133 except aida benchmark

Screen : https://bit.ly/2VHezdt .
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-12, 14:25:12
There is definite relationship between memory (probably through stress on controller) and CPU temperatures. So your offset settings might have properly worked with previously lower load (smaller capacity and speed) but are insufficient now.
Your current temps, clocks, etc.. all sound about right for all the 2990WX systems I've seen (not even my uber-loop goes lower than 58C on stock 250W).

Some common advice I have seen is to first max the memory settings and then play with CPU multiplier afterwards as the correct order.

But you write you can't see any difference in Corona Bench and real scene ? Because I see massive difference, I would even say the difference for 2990WX might be slightly in favour of faster memory than slightly higher overclock if priority should be given. But this is for Corona alone, I haven't seen any other software being so demanding for memory throughput. Cinebench rarely registers it within margin of error.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-04-12, 15:11:04
I`ll play with corona benchmark if there is difference between 2133 and 3000, im curious as well. Will post results here.

Regarding temps : if i undervolt it by -0,125mv im losing like 200 points in CB (11 200 vs 11 450) but i can sit on 50C with 3000/14 on memory, which is awesome.
Totally silent PC and all just with 1x Noctua fan.

https://gyazo.com/c95a834f542d363ead0024d78ca70d3e
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2019-04-13, 22:17:01
Just wanted to share with you guys that today after nearly an entire year my Enermax 280 TR4 for the 1950x died. I contacted the seller from whom I always buy my hardware and ironically he told me that I am the last one to call, and that all of his previous clients who ordered the first enermax batch in the end returned it since it broke...
Funny story I was actually monitoring the pc from time to time but today it was idling at around 70 degrees celsius and making a rattling noise. Can't wait for the warranty piece for another month will buy on Monday a brand new Noctua U14S SP3 at least they don't die so easy :).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-14, 12:27:54
So much for the quality of (particularly Enermax) AIO systems :/
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Nguyen Ba Dung on 2019-04-18, 07:19:59
Hi guys,
Got my PC parts assembled yesterday.
- CPU : AMD Ryzen 2990WX
- Mainboard : Aorus X399 Extreme
- RAM : 64GB DDR4 Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200Mhz
- VGA : Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti Gaming OC
- PSU : Corsair AX 1600i
- Cooler : Cooler Master MA621P
- Case : Cosmos C700P

I have some questions :
1. Is my PC builds good or anything need to be changed ?
2. In the near future, I want to have 4x2080Tis in this PC, is that possible with my current mainboard, because the Gigabyte card that I'm using already taken 2 slots
3. I ran a test render, a gym interior scene, 720x405pixels, 7% noise level, and the time render is about 9 mins, 3mins slower than my current rendernode which is dual xeon E5-2697v3 @2.6Ghz (28cores, 56threads ) which is weird, isn't it ?

Thank you for any helps !
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: agentdark45 on 2019-04-18, 12:23:05
Hi guys,
Got my PC parts assembled yesterday.
- CPU : AMD Ryzen 2990WX
- Mainboard : Aorus X399 Extreme
- RAM : 64GB DDR4 Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200Mhz
- VGA : Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti Gaming OC
- PSU : Corsair AX 1600i
- Cooler : Cooler Master MA621P
- Case : Cosmos C700P

I have some questions :
1. Is my PC builds good or anything need to be changed ?
2. In the near future, I want to have 4x2080Tis in this PC, is that possible with my current mainboard, because the Gigabyte card that I'm using already taken 2 slots
3. I ran a test render, a gym interior scene, 720x405pixels, 7% noise level, and the time render is about 9 mins, 3mins slower than my current rendernode which is dual xeon E5-2697v3 @2.6Ghz (28cores, 56threads ) which is weird, isn't it ?

Thank you for any helps !

Double check your RAM speeds and latency timings. This is crucial for a 2990wx system.

With 4x2080ti's and a 2990wx you might actually need two PSU's or one of those monster 2000w ones. Typically people run blower style 2-slot graphics cards when they go with high density GPU builds, firstly due to lack of motherboard/GPU spacing, but also due to the fact that heat is drawn through the GPU and exhausted out the back of the PC vs. just dumped into the interior of the case. If you are dead set on using the thick 3 fan GPU's you're going to need to use PCIE riser cables and work out how to exhaust all of that heat from your case.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-04-20, 19:26:55
Everything Agentdark45 writes is correct, this will be 100perc. the memory. You have to set the memory in uefi not just install it.

You have the only board that supports 2990WX and 4x double-slot GPUs. So all good there.

I just want to mention that blower style is not just good option for multi-gpu setup, it is absolute necessity almost, the other only good option being water-loop. In fact, the noise from 4 blowers plus 250W CPU is very good reason to go full-water (and super-tower that supports three thick radiators, not just two).
The pci riser card setup is usually pretty bad since the vertical slot next to glass panel is very poor in air-flow, the GPU is usually 10-15C higher in temps there. Also, you need the GPUs to be next to each other to get full-use of 2xNVLink for memory doubling in apps that support so.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: dfcorona on 2019-04-21, 16:08:05
Here is something new.

Thermaltake Releases Threadripper-Specific Floe Riing RGB 360

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/thermaltake-flow-riing-tr4-rgb-360,39124.html
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2019-04-21, 21:23:03
We just got a couple of Asus Turbo 2080 Tis and I can recommend them.  They are blower style and with a custom fan curve stay quite cool.  They are laughably loud though.  They sound like a hairdryer.  I’m considering moving that desktop to the back room and running cables to the main office.  If I were to build another rig I might consider watercooling it.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Nguyen Ba Dung on 2019-05-02, 10:52:58
Hi guys,
Got my PC parts assembled yesterday.
- CPU : AMD Ryzen 2990WX
- Mainboard : Aorus X399 Extreme
- RAM : 64GB DDR4 Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200Mhz
- VGA : Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti Gaming OC
- PSU : Corsair AX 1600i
- Cooler : Cooler Master MA621P
- Case : Cosmos C700P

I have some questions :
1. Is my PC builds good or anything need to be changed ?
2. In the near future, I want to have 4x2080Tis in this PC, is that possible with my current mainboard, because the Gigabyte card that I'm using already taken 2 slots
3. I ran a test render, a gym interior scene, 720x405pixels, 7% noise level, and the time render is about 9 mins, 3mins slower than my current rendernode which is dual xeon E5-2697v3 @2.6Ghz (28cores, 56threads ) which is weird, isn't it ?

Thank you for any helps !

Double check your RAM speeds and latency timings. This is crucial for a 2990wx system.

With 4x2080ti's and a 2990wx you might actually need two PSU's or one of those monster 2000w ones. Typically people run blower style 2-slot graphics cards when they go with high density GPU builds, firstly due to lack of motherboard/GPU spacing, but also due to the fact that heat is drawn through the GPU and exhausted out the back of the PC vs. just dumped into the interior of the case. If you are dead set on using the thick 3 fan GPU's you're going to need to use PCIE riser cables and work out how to exhaust all of that heat from your case.

Thank you so much for the explanations. Works now !
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Nguyen Ba Dung on 2019-05-02, 10:54:15
Everything Agentdark45 writes is correct, this will be 100perc. the memory. You have to set the memory in uefi not just install it.

You have the only board that supports 2990WX and 4x double-slot GPUs. So all good there.

I just want to mention that blower style is not just good option for multi-gpu setup, it is absolute necessity almost, the other only good option being water-loop. In fact, the noise from 4 blowers plus 250W CPU is very good reason to go full-water (and super-tower that supports three thick radiators, not just two).
The pci riser card setup is usually pretty bad since the vertical slot next to glass panel is very poor in air-flow, the GPU is usually 10-15C higher in temps there. Also, you need the GPUs to be next to each other to get full-use of 2xNVLink for memory doubling in apps that support so.

Thank you Jural, I will consider that when build up full 4 cards
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-05-13, 05:33:17
Hey all, reporting back after the first of two 2990WX builds. Thanks to everyone on this thread for all of the great information. I ended up settling with:

CPU - 2990WX
MB - Meg Creation
RAM - G.Skill TridentZ F4-3000C16D-32GTZR (64GB in total)
Cooler - Silver Arrow TR4

I'm happy to report that it's all going well so far after 1 day. The RAM is clocking in at 3000, and I'm seeing average temperatures of around 68 degrees under full load. The only quirk I ran into, was that Windows failed to complete an install properly. After a few attempts, I found out online that I had to disable the WiFi while installing. Then once Windows was fully installed, I installed the WiFi drivers, then enabled the device.

The case and power supply for the second build will arrive in the next few days. Then once that is set up I will (hopefully) have two powerful CPU's pumping out many frames for my short film.

On a minor note, I've never been a fan of lighting on computing hardware, and in the past I have actively steered away from such features. But, now when I look at the RAM and MB lighting up with the all of the colours, I must say that it is kind of pretty.

Oh, and I bought one of those $5 Windows 10 licenses off Ebay, and it seems to be totally legitimate, no issues!

[Edit]
I forgot to mention that this build is extremely quiet! Though I did house it in an existing high quality Coolermaster ATCS 840 case I had been keeping for a while. This case has 6 high quality large fans that help the air flow smoothly.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-05-13, 19:04:37
Nice :- ).

Yeah those licences are legit thanks to free licence transfer laws in European Union. It doesn't matter what software vendors say in their EULA (see, we can ignore it like we always did), they can't forbid transfer of any (whether bulk or second-hand) licence.

We can all "thank" Oracle for this heh.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-05-13, 19:40:19
I'm happy to report that it's all going well so far after 1 day. The RAM is clocking in at 3000, and I'm seeing average temperatures of around 68 degrees under full load.

68 under load ? Thats a lot imo on default clock/voltage. On my totally stock BIOS settings im getting (without undervolting) 58C with NS14 ( single fan ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: tallbox on 2019-05-13, 20:10:43
Hi guys,
Got my PC parts assembled yesterday.
- CPU : AMD Ryzen 2990WX
- Mainboard : Aorus X399 Extreme
- RAM : 64GB DDR4 Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200Mhz
- VGA : Gigabyte RTX 2080Ti Gaming OC
- PSU : Corsair AX 1600i
- Cooler : Cooler Master MA621P
- Case : Cosmos C700P

I have some questions :
1. Is my PC builds good or anything need to be changed ?
2. In the near future, I want to have 4x2080Tis in this PC, is that possible with my current mainboard, because the Gigabyte card that I'm using already taken 2 slots
3. I ran a test render, a gym interior scene, 720x405pixels, 7% noise level, and the time render is about 9 mins, 3mins slower than my current rendernode which is dual xeon E5-2697v3 @2.6Ghz (28cores, 56threads ) which is weird, isn't it ?

Thank you for any helps !

Double check your RAM speeds and latency timings. This is crucial for a 2990wx system.

With 4x2080ti's and a 2990wx you might actually need two PSU's or one of those monster 2000w ones. Typically people run blower style 2-slot graphics cards when they go with high density GPU builds, firstly due to lack of motherboard/GPU spacing, but also due to the fact that heat is drawn through the GPU and exhausted out the back of the PC vs. just dumped into the interior of the case. If you are dead set on using the thick 3 fan GPU's you're going to need to use PCIE riser cables and work out how to exhaust all of that heat from your case.

Thank you so much for the explanations. Works now !
At what clock speed you managed to "fix"the problem?
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-05-13, 20:15:43
I'm happy to report that it's all going well so far after 1 day. The RAM is clocking in at 3000, and I'm seeing average temperatures of around 68 degrees under full load.

68 under load ? Thats a lot imo on default clock/voltage. On my totally stock BIOS settings im getting (without undervolting) 58C with NS14 ( single fan ).

I wouldn't say so necessarily, here are readings from Aorus Xtreme with Heatkiller IV ( best cpu block on market ) connected to 240mm rad with full-speed ran NoiseBlocker 140 and all-core boost at 3.5Ghz have temps of 67C.
That's full system 300W power draw at Blender Test.
MSI MEG might have different default bios setting to Aorus, mine (MEG) had PBO switched to expert mode and that is quite voltage hungry for some reason. I never compared PBO behavior with later bios updates.

(https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CPU-Temp.png)

https://www.kitguru.net/components/leo-waldock/gigabyte-x399-aorus-xtreme-review-w-amd-2990wx/6/

Phoronic's tests though do show average 58 for stock settings on Asus ROG Extreme.

(https://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1808134-RA-AMDTR2COO52&sha=8178eba&p=2)

That said, could be anything from heatsink seating to fan profiles, to software used to monitor temperature readings (super inaccurate) to what package is being run. Cinebench and Blender are less intense than Corona.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-13, 21:10:32
As a Mac user, I had put an eye on Win-workstations, especially at Threadripper, since they impress with countless cores.


My old iMac (2012) was struggling with thermal problems when doing hard render jobs all day long, I was quite sure I would switch from Mac
to a properly cooled Win workstation with huuuuge fans and liquid.

After comparing prices of Win-workstations with those of latest iMac Pro... the conclusion was that: same components in a Win box will cost not much less than the ready to go-Mac... and you still don't have a display. Especially not a 5K.

Honestly... I was super sceptic and kind of afraid to throw that much money at Apple again, especially having had thermal problems with old models from 2012.

BUT... good Lord. What a nice surprise came on my desktop with the iMac Pro ! Basic config, absolutely no upgrade. 8 core, 32 Ram 8GB Vega-card.
No fancy numbers.

Render times up to 10 x faster than the 2012 iMac 3,4 Ghz i7 !
Temperatures at full load ? A bit warmer than my hand ! No kidding.
Fan Noise? Nothing. Never.

Benchmark Treadripper around 23.000, Xeon W around 18600.
Okay, a bit slower... slower than very fast... :)))
I can live with that.

Maybe more investment for the Mac at the beginning... but no investment of tens and tens of hours of internet research for components, assembling, fiddling around in the BIOS, not working drivers, etc. etc. etc.
In this time you don't earn money !

At the end, I'm not sure if assembling PC yourself really saves that much money.


 
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: arqrenderz on 2019-05-14, 14:36:40
As a Mac user, I had put an eye on Win-workstations, especially at Threadripper, since they impress with countless cores.


My old iMac (2012) was struggling with thermal problems when doing hard render jobs all day long, I was quite sure I would switch from Mac
to a properly cooled Win workstation with huuuuge fans and liquid.

After comparing prices of Win-workstations with those of latest iMac Pro... the conclusion was that: same components in a Win box will cost not much less than the ready to go-Mac... and you still don't have a display. Especially not a 5K.

Honestly... I was super sceptic and kind of afraid to throw that much money at Apple again, especially having had thermal problems with old models from 2012.

BUT... good Lord. What a nice surprise came on my desktop with the iMac Pro ! Basic config, absolutely no upgrade. 8 core, 32 Ram 8GB Vega-card.
No fancy numbers.

Render times up to 10 x faster than the 2012 iMac 3,4 Ghz i7 !
Temperatures at full load ? A bit warmer than my hand ! No kidding.
Fan Noise? Nothing. Never.

Benchmark Treadripper around 23.000, Xeon W around 18600.
Okay, a bit slower... slower than very fast... :)))
I can live with that.

Maybe more investment for the Mac at the beginning... but no investment of tens and tens of hours of internet research for components, assembling, fiddling around in the BIOS, not working drivers, etc. etc. etc.
In this time you don't earn money !

At the end, I'm not sure if assembling PC yourself really saves that much money.

Lol man, you said its just warm to the hand, i bet its like 90º c in there     
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-14, 16:05:12
Lol man ?

I tell you... mine doesn't overheat at all. Even when Corona renders on full power for 20 minutes, the air from the vent is - as I said - not much warmer than my hand.

How many degrees are around the CPU... that's another thing.

Anyway, I never understood why WIN users like to ridicule Mac users.
Because of the "higher price"... oh and the non-scalability?
Well, if your own time for online research for components, self-assembling, setting up all drivers until the "hell-of-a-machine" works, is worth NOTHING... then maybe the WIN-solution is cheaper.

In my last employee-job, I worked on a brand new WIN-machine with latest, very powerful components.
You wanna know the story?  ... Despite crazy calculation power - Illustrator was lame as hell, almost freezing. The same with Powerpoint.
Rhino(CAD) "didn't like" the drivers of the video card and was running slower than on my 7 year old !!!! iMac.

We spent days until it ran more-less normal. Despite the help of a colleague who was a graduated programmer.

Such I have never experienced in 15 years on a Mac.

Long story short: as a user of BOTH systems... WIN-PCs and OSX / Mac-PCs I can only say that: there is not the slightest reason to ridicule Macs.

Me personally, I am happy and quite fascinated about WIN based render-monsters and don't exclude that one day I´ll buy one.

But it´s still a fact, that Windows itself plus building your PC yourself from components that don't necessarily harmonize together, can be a pain in the ass.

Quite regularly I read about "complete crashes" and all sort of weird problems with self-built PCs here in the Corona forum.
I´m not glad about that and not making fun of the people.

And by the way... even my 7 year old iMac NEVER gets hotter than 75°C directly at the CPU-heatsink. Without 6 x 120 mm Fans and liquid cooling.

So how can you seriously believe that an iMac Pro will get around 90°C, when it has a cooling system that is more efficient by 80 % ???

That's indeed "LOL"



Good luck and much success to all colleagues with Win-PCs.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lolec on 2019-05-14, 18:12:00
I use a PC and I never argue with MAC people online, I guess if you value at NOTHING the time and energy you spent arguing with strangers online on arguments where no one ever changes their mind, then the MAC makes sense.

But knowing that the PC is flawed and that arguing is futile, I just don't argue and save even more money!


- My comment is tongue in cheek, of course. My point is that there are better things to do and that I've never seen anyone be convinced or changed their mind, so why bother? No platform is objectively better at EVERYTHING, individual needs vary, everyone will continue to use whatever they think is better for them.




Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PROH on 2019-05-14, 18:28:53
I think the biggest question here is: why are you hijacking a Threadripper thread with a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with Threadripper?

Please don't answer here, but if you find it important to continue, then start a separate thread, thanks.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-14, 18:47:57
lolec ...

my time ( 5 minutes ) and energy I spent in exchanging opinions with colleagues who use win PCs is not wasted, since I think that learning from others is never a waste of time.
Why you have to get offensive?

Also interesting that exchanging experiences - is comprehended as "arguing" here in this forum.

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-14, 19:02:54
Hey PROH...

I think the bigger question is why you call someone's general interest in YOUR PC topics "hijacking a thread" ?

Also your formulation " please don't answer here " ...   ???
Ehhhhm... oh...kaaaay.

No worries, you will not be bothered anymore by non-treadripper users... :))))
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lolec on 2019-05-14, 19:11:52
I clearly stated that my comments were meant to be taken lightly and jokingly.

One can argue though, that the time spent researching, building, debugging a PC is time well spent because you learn from that too.

Arguing doesn't mean "fighting" but the act of presenting arguments, which we all are.

I'm sorry that I didn't recognize that was such an emotional subject for you and that you would take comments personally, that was not my intention.


Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: PROH on 2019-05-14, 19:13:58
The title of this topic is: "Threadripper 2990WX" - not: "why I love my iMac"

BTW - 3dsMax only works on Windows, no matter how good/bad it is.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-14, 19:28:08
Hey PROH,

thanks, that's a polite answer. I appreciate.

So, sorry to everyone, I never meant to tell "why I love my Mac".
Just found your thread quite interesting and thought that maybe someone will be interested in my experience... even if it´s off topic.

Feel free to erase my comments, if you are the moderator. You are right, they are off-topic.

Wishing you the best guys!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-05-14, 22:04:58

That said, could be anything from heatsink seating to fan profiles, to software used to monitor temperature readings (super inaccurate) to what package is being run. Cinebench and Blender are less intense than Corona.

Yea i noticed better temps and voltage management with latest bios from 03/2019 also better memory compatibility (mostly overclocking)

Anyway

Sorry for interrupting your Mac related discussion guys but i noticed weird thing today.

Having default XMP enabled (3000/14) with stock CPU clock.

Corona : 41s / Cores capped at 3.175ghz
Cinebench : 11 000pts

XMP enabled with just memory multiplier changed to 29.33
Corona : 40s / Cores capped at 3.4 Ghz
Cinebench : 11 600pt

Any idea whats going on here ?

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-05-15, 19:13:47

Any idea whats going on here ?


Of course, it's very simple. You aren't running Mac :- ).
(No idea, my wager would be the difference is due to BLCK multiplier)


Now to this interesting discussion we have about merits of Windows vs Mac machines. I will go point by point and later point out it is very Apple™ and Oranges but why not play the game nonetheless :- ) ?


1) "Hassle". This isn't due to Windows vs Mac nature but the nature of Bespoke (+home)-build vs Prebuilt Machine. You can buy prebuilt Windows based workstations just as well from Dell,IBM, HP, Boxx,etc. They will also feature partly (though not to an extent of current-gen iMac) custom sourced hardware that's guaranteed to work together as it was pre-tested. Downside is huge price premium, lack of repairability outside of official channels due to custom hardware (mostly mainboard + PSU, but often the case as well).


Issues mentioned in this thread are mostly multiplied by the niche nature of enthousiast platform that was rushed to market, made in small orders and wasn't paid enough attention by 3rd party vendors (particularly the business of selling motherboards is very thin margin so even if brands like MSI create 'Halo' product for niche platform, it doesn't mean they paid attention to it to an extent that corporate deployed platform would. Everyone going this route knows there are risk involved. Risks with big payoff in price and performance.


I can (and have done so for family members and friends) build simple PC/Workstation on more mainstream platform (or pro-grade like Xeon) within hour and no complication ever after.


2) Price & Performance payoff. Now here I will show just how much the difference is actually. Because the aggregated Passmark score you have quoted is very misleading (it doesn't scale well and it's aggregate of lot of single-core processes, IPC has not grown much over the years. Basically, 8-core will load Chrome page just as fast as 32-core monster, so the scores will be similar), it basically doesn't even apply at all to Corona rendering. Better example is Cinebench R20, which perfectly scales in all situations.


Your configuration (iMac Pro, 8-core base model, 27" display) uses Xeon W-2140B from 2017. The multi-threaded score is 3700, rounded up.
Threadripper 2990WX has a score of 11 500+ at base-clock, and can go up to 13 000 with good cooling (like the workstation I have built for Veronika, on page 9?).

So it is 3 times faster. But that is expected because we are comparing and 8-core vs 32-core. Nothing to do with Windows or Mac, but lot to do with Threadripper vs Xeon pricing.


You absolutely can build 2990WX + 32GB + Vega 56 for the price of iMac pro minus monitor. Let's see the math (Amazon US prices):


Threadripper (2990WX=1622$, Aorus Xtreme 429$, 32GB DDR4 3000 CL15 179$, Fractal Case Define R6 149$, Noctua UH-14S TR3 79$, Vega 56 276$,  1TB Samsung 860 EVO 147$, 750W Seasonic Platinum 119$, 10GBE is on-board)

TOTAL:2,999$ (wow heh) + 27" LG 5K Ultrafine (this the panel Apple uses and this is the display they sell separately) 869$ = Grand Total 3869$

So we paid 30perc. less for 300perc. of the performance. And we have easily repairable, upgradable workstation with display we can swap or replace anytime.

To get closer to Threadripper 2990WX, we have to upgrade to 18-core version ( Xeon W-2191B ) but which has low TDP for cooling purposes so the all-core boost is just slightly above 2.3GHz, rendering the performance to be roughly half of 2990WX.
The price would jump to 7390$ Now the dirty equation would be half the price for twice the performance.

Of course, not all is fair above. iMac is all-in-one PC, it's made for creative professionals, but those creative professionals are meant more to be photographers, 2D artists, etc.. It's not rendering machine by any mean.
And there are Windows alternatives which are just as expensive and weak, for example Microsoft Surface Studio 2 which has all the same benefits and drawbacks like the Apple one but is arguably superior also but that is different topic altogether. Since you wrote this in Threadripper 2990WX thread, I compared the Apples&Oranges you brought :- ).

Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nkilar on 2019-05-15, 22:06:16
Well put Juraj, kind of agree with you on all the points.

Still, people sometimes prefer the UX of a given platform and put great value in having official support even if it means paying more for less performance. It is actually a good thing. Personally, I'm happy everyone gets their pie and has a choice. If you like it, by all means invest in whatever you feel like supporting :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-15, 22:29:41
Juraj & nkilar,

both good points.

Juraj, thanks for the time you took to show your perspective on this topic.

I can only say, that after 15 years of work as an industrial designer, I learned that nice numbers don't tell you everything about the workflow with a specific machine.
In my opinion... the OS or the "harmony" between components often make the difference between a smooth workflow and the moments when people literally threw their machines out of the building... :)

However... I'm sure one day, one of those Threadripper monsters will make it into my office.

Greetings.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nkilar on 2019-05-15, 22:40:00
@Designerman77

Yeah I agree with you but I do sometimes think people just are a) afraid b) don't educate themselves enough c) just caught believing the hype. We are all guilty of it sometimes, no exceptions imho.

I do know some people who were diehard into the Mac plaftorm, totally not technical peeps. Then, with the Threadripper and its performance versus cost, they switched and never looked back. Was hard to make the first step but after that, seems like smooth sailing.

Likewise, I'm sure there are designers out there who are rocking that Mac plaftorm.

Another example would perhaps be people who are stuck on legacy renderers. I've had talks with people running LC LC in V-Ray in the 21st century - Totally cool if it makes sense but sometimes people just don't get out of their comfort zone. In this particular case, once they've tried going BF LC their production times went down by a ton and it was less technical overall - once they figured it out.

I mean I suppose thats why we all talk to each other and have these debates :) Ultimately, if people feel comfortable with their set up and don't need "more" for what they are doing... Then to me they are definitely making a good choice. I wouldn't recommend a 2D designer to invest into 4 GPUs / Uber CPUs just because he'll occasionally render a clay box. On the other hand, I'd probably challenge somebody to think about investing into exactly that if their workflow seems slow, they are falling behind schedule because of it and are just generally unaware of the tech world and how it progresses (Threadripper is a good example, still catches some rendering peeps by surprise).

I think we are talking about the same thing anyway, I just had some extra time for a wall of text, lol. Qapla!
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-15, 23:01:45
Nkilar,

cool, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Very soon I will need 3x more render speed. And then it´s clear which way to go... not stuck to California products at all.
But I guess both OS will work in parallel, to get the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: danio1011 on 2019-05-16, 06:37:24
We recently had to decide between building a 2990wx machine and investing in GPUs to test alternate workflows.  We decided to go the GPU route.  We tried FStorm (awesome in many ways but lacking in others...denoiser being the biggest along with procedural map support like tiles) and VRay Next (I want to ‘believe’ but it hasn’t clicked yet).  Currently waiting for Redshift 3.0 to come out but also sort of wishing we’d spent that hardware budget on yet another threadripper so we could have augmented our Corona workflow.  Anyway, sort of on-topic sort of off-topic, but I certainly resonate with the idea of always reevaluating workflows and investment choices.

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-05-16, 11:36:25
Heh, Windows vs MacOSX as software platform, and sticking to known workflow vs updating tools on every corner are two discussions I wouldn't even begin :- ). Those can just be debated endlessly and they kind of lack the simple arguments that hardware can give and I am really just a hardware guy (PCs, cars, bicycles...).


I can actually well emphatise with people who stick to Mac platform because of the software. I once chose WindowsPhone and when it died (the platform, never the phones) I was really unhappy to make the Android switch, for me the cohesion and simplicity was the same reason why Apple people stick to Apple products. In the end I bought the one spying brand with best camera...and still didn't make peace with the software side. So I am fully onboard here ;- ).


But purely hardware talking, that was always very utilitarian thing to me and I would always suggest saving any possible cost (but I understand well the argument that time is money) when it is reasonable. For freelancers and small companies, building custom workstations with off-the-shelf hardware (Threadripper, Engineering sample Xeons,etc..) was one thing that made the whole investment in CGI career a bit less painful. Because unlike photographers with "Gear acquisition syndrome", spending 10k+ a year on hardware I 'need', not 'want' never really made me that happy, I see it strictly as necessity. Fancy cases, clean cabels, huge performance...all nice and of course it makes our work faster and easier but ultimately it's just sacrifice that must be done and the less of an financial sacrifice it is, the better.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-05-16, 12:34:27
Let´s get back to Threadripper... :)))) says the Mac guy.

Yesterday I had a look at Titan Computers (sorry for naming... no advert !!! ).

Those guys sell the 32 core with similar specs as described by Juraj for min. 5000,- USD.
Crazy.

I guess I will order the machine at Juraj... :))))
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-05-17, 02:21:03
For what it's worth, here is what I paid for my components:
Threadripper 2 (from eBay) - US$1100
Meg Creation MB (from Amazon) - US$500
64GB RAM (from Newegg) - US$400
Case - US$150
Cooler (from Amazon) - US$90
PSU (from Newegg) - US$250
HDD (from local computer shop) - CDN$80

I am using an existing old graphics card (box will only be used for rendering). All up that's a little over US$2500, an amazing price for a system like this. I guess if you factor in a couple of hours of research and build time, then depending on how much you value your time, add on another few hundred dollars. That's still $2000 cheaper than many computer shops.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: steyin on 2019-06-02, 03:06:32
Has there been any news on the new Threadripper options coming out later this year? I'm hoping there are 48/64 core options available. Will finally be able to get a new computer by then, and no doubt in my mind I'd go that route.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Vuk on 2019-06-02, 08:57:41
I am pretty sure there won’t be a 48/64 core TR this year. No point for AMD to go all out if Intel is falling behind. My guess is that they will just do the same thing they did when transitioning from ryzen 1000 series to ryzen 2000. Improve the ipc and clocks of the existing 24/32 core products. The other option is that Intel pulls out something and rushes AMD, but can’t really see it happening when they are playing with the 9900k, ks thing right now :).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nkilar on 2019-06-03, 09:10:16
I'm guessing here but I'm thinking that the server chips will get priority over TR. So I suspect nothing will get released before Q4 although AMD did go out of their way to say the TR platform will receive new Zen 2 based CPUs. They just didn't say when :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-03, 11:29:28
Hard to say but I wouldn't say either way for sure. They haven't shown or even mentioned anything, but then then on mic, Lisa Su mentioned Threadripper going forward just as planned.

The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete. And imho if you can overclock the rumored 16c Ryzen that well on water loop (4200 +/- CB15 points), even 2990WX is debatable since 99perc. people people don't overclock it.
48/64C Threadripper  would massively canibalize Epyc in certain segments.

But even 2990WX updated to Zen2 cores would be just amazing. It even has better AVX which we all know is the most useless shit but since even Corona has it inadvertly injected it matters.
The IPC is the only reason why my 18c i9 is almost the same good in Corona as 2990WX Veronika has, with Zen2, that would be no more. And Intel really has absolutely nothing the follow that 28core total failure.

Let's cautiously wait = ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-06-03, 16:55:08
The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete.

Nooo my 1920x that I just bought! I did purchase the cpu/mobo for less than what the 3900x will cost alone though. Just a guess but it would look like the threadripper xx20x model number would be dropped like they did with 1900x for 2nd gen. Which would leave just a 3950x, 3970x, & 3990x (3950x maybe not if the 16c Ryzen is a thing). Was really planning on upgrading to a 3000 series towards the end of the year, hopefully they are still in line with the other TR releases, as this makes a great workstation.

Now if only we could look up builds for workstation and never see the word "Gaming" in reviews and comments.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-04, 01:37:06
(Sorry guys I really tried to restrain myself, but I just can't, I had to post this here as well)

In meantime you can buy this amazing piece of kit with starting price of 6000 dollars for following configuration: 8-core, 16GB ram, 256GB SSD, 580 Radeon :- D

https://gizmodo.com/the-mac-pro-cheese-grater-is-back-and-it-looks-powerfu-1828986191

But don't worry as the people in comment sections explain it's well worth it, it's actually for true professionals who make millions per day so this is cheap, Windows machine would cost twice for such specs and this uses higher quality special magic rated parts.
But of course you can't understand it, you probably aren't true professional.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: jamesdowling on 2019-06-04, 14:29:01
wow I'm not a fan of that case and why would anyone need 1.5tb of ram??

"eight-core Xeon CPU, 32GB of memory, a 256GB SSD and the Radeon Pro 580X graphics card and will start at $5,999" My 2990wx, 1080ti, 64gb ram build cost less than that, its crazy what people will pay just for a brand and OS.

I do love going through the comments section though ;) so much passion from both sides lol.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-04, 16:25:14
wow I'm not a fan of that case and why would anyone need 1.5tb of ram??

"eight-core Xeon CPU, 32GB of memory, a 256GB SSD and the Radeon Pro 580X graphics card and will start at $5,999" My 2990wx, 1080ti, 64gb ram build cost less than that, its crazy what people will pay just for a brand and OS.

I do love going through the comments section though ;) so much passion from both sides lol.

The case looks like some cheap tech from the early 2000s.
Also since this thread seems to get alot of interest is there a chance someone could recommend like a 'budget' 2990wx build and a top tier one? Ill add it into the first post.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-06-04, 19:19:58
(Sorry guys I really tried to restrain myself, but I just can't, I had to post this here as well)

In meantime you can buy this amazing piece of kit with starting price of 6000 dollars for following configuration: 8-core, 16GB ram, 256GB SSD, 580 Radeon :- D

https://gizmodo.com/the-mac-pro-cheese-grater-is-back-and-it-looks-powerfu-1828986191

But don't worry as the people in comment sections explain it's well worth it, it's actually for true professionals who make millions per day so this is cheap, Windows machine would cost twice for such specs and this uses higher quality special magic rated parts.
But of course you can't understand it, you probably aren't true professional.


Juraj, we all know & appreciate you as a real pro in 3D and a guy who stays factual, not in need to ridicule anyone.

So why to ridicule your colleagues who work on Macs, explaining them that they are idiots and morons? Where is the benefit for anyone?

As mentioned in previous posts, as you laugh about the "ridiculously bad performance of Macs" and their "high" price, many Mac users who ALSO work on Win systems !!! could endlessly laugh their asses off
about typical problems of Win-PCs with drivers not working and crashes out of nowhere, literally crippling a computer with high-end specs to the performance of a PC from 1997.

Like we all know, not only final render speed decides how many hours or days you will spend on a project.
Things like: how fluently will a heavy scene move in the viewport can cost you days of work and your last nerve.
Or things like: will I work on the project, or will I have to fix driver problems, searching the internet for proper updates, etc. etc.

Despite the great performance of zillion-core-processors, at the end of the day, the mentioned factors and many more will add.

And I promise you, in 5 years you will also laugh at the "bad" performance of a 2990WX...    :)))



P.S. As an industrial designer I say: good Lord, what an ugly case that new MacPo has! Horrible proportions and those feet... ridiculous.
The whole thing looks like some machine from the meat processing industry.
A nightmare!





Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-04, 20:05:10
I don't really think I was ridiculing anyone based on what they work on :- ). I posted a link to blog post with comment section which is full of very strongly convinced yet very ignorant people, arguing with the emotional fervor of digital warfare. And it's not just people on Mac side, but generally. I didn't hint or said otherwise.

And the nonsense they write is absolutely entertaining, half of them are not only making up stuff, they straight up lie and pretend to work for some imaginary big-name studio (Sony ILM, Disney,etc..) to falsely boost their argument.

The new Mac doesn't have anything special going on, it's regular LGA3467 socket based Xeons and Radeon Vega (with Navi for higher builds) cards. It's simply placed in nice small cheese grater (I actually kind of dig the look but more specially how it positioned massive SSI sized board with no dead space left around) and comes installed with different operating system.
Nothing magical is going on, nothing is proprietary in the hardware in true sense, nothing to warrant 200perc. price increase outside of mostly brand-name. (as I doubt Apple provides the kind of corporate support HP/Dell does).

And that's ok, whoever wants to pay for the privilege should do so. But people acting like over-paying is staple of professional studios or the hardware is different (or even new, nothing is new there) are out of their minds.
This is people who have no actual knowledge about what is going under cover of computer regurgitating marketing drivel. "1.5 Terabyte of Memory ! Which Windows machine can support that?" Well, literally every single one with that platform. And so on and so on.

And in 5 years, I will not be laughing at the performance of 2990WX because the full workstation with 128GB of ram and top-tier GPU of its time had costed me less than 5k. There will be some photographer in Brooklyn who had paid for the same performance more than 20k.
I will spend the money difference on Seychelles in meantime.

If anyone wants to convince themselves the falsehoods they believe to be true, ok, but they shouldn't act like they're talking actual facts.

BTW I did not join the discussion there or anywhere else :- )
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lupaz on 2019-06-04, 20:17:32
The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete.

You mean this? AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-06-04, 20:50:36
Juraj,

I meant that "you will laugh at the WX in 5 years"... simply because in 5 years there will be other CPUs, probably with 3x the power a the same price.

Regarding the specifications of that ugly cheese grater-Mac, I agree with you. Totally... Its really nothing special and not worth 6000,- bucks at all.

But from personal experience, it´s not the components of the Macs... but their OSX which provides you a huge reliability - and sometimes even more performance from weaker hardware.
I could observe massive "bottleneck"-effects on WIN & C4D which simply did´t occur under OSX (same C4D-version and much weaker Mac).

That's why I became quite sceptic with being too euphoric about one system, while claiming that the other system is "rubbish".


Greetings.



Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-04, 21:11:53
Designerman, I think you read again too much into that OSX thing. Right now even the discussion is based purely on the hardware side but the part that personally pushed me little bit over is this insinuation by many that what sets apart amateurs and professionals (of any industry I guess) is their indifference to costs.
Because apparently, every successful business with large enough budgets want to turn their operational costs into capital costs and be smugly proud about it.


The argument "Real professionals don't care about the price, they make one billion dollars per day and need much higher quality hardware" propagates two falsehoods: If you care about price/performance, you're not professional enough and that branded hardware solutions (not just Apple, BOXX and Dell/HP are equally used for this argument) are intrinsically superior due to their nature.
This ignorance is borne out of myth-building and spreads like wildfire.

I think everyone should spend their money however they wish and everyone puts value into something else. But the two arguments above are repeated so often it's nearing entrenchment and that strikes me.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-04, 21:16:55
The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete.

You mean this? AMD Ryzen 9 3900X


Nope, I mean the 16-core model that hasn't been published but seemed to be confirmed by many to exists. (I mean actual information after Computex was over).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Njen on 2019-06-04, 21:31:11
[on second thought my comment wasn't really appropriate for this thread talking about the 2990WX]
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-06-04, 21:38:09
Juraj, well, I don´t support any of those weird claims... like "pros don't care about price".

My remarks about the OS-thing was strictly regarding the claim that "Macs are for ignorants and sooooo much worse than Win-systems".
Which, btw. is also repeated like a prayer by so many people.
Just tried to depict the main aspect, why some people accept the dis-balance between price and the performance of the naked components in a Mac.
It´s because a computer consists not only of its hardware.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-04, 21:48:36

It´s because a computer consists not only of its hardware.

Yes but that is contested territory, one that for large amount of workstation tasks, either can't be properly measured, or yields rather close performance similarity.
Most of all, something that in the end comes with personal preference that is hard to argue against factually.

But quite honestly, I have seen like 1-2 jokes about "real system" compared to 100 comments saying the price is fully justified based on imaginative properties of the specs, what they believe 'real pros' need, and how they can afford it without blinking an eye because 'tax write-offs' make it free.

I close the case from my side, I have to simply ignore those website debates, for all I know, it does always look to me like it's bunch (mentally) 12 year olds pretending to understand everything from hardware to business running.
Like I said in my first post, I simply couldn't contain myself :- ). The thing swept the internet !


(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/60503355.jpg)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-06-05, 12:02:03
Contested?

What is "contested" about the facts which I mentioned like: super-duper-specs-Win-PC could not even move AI, Rhino or PP and C4D froze after every render?
Also the significant speed differences (same soft / Rhino - for WIN !!! ) running slower on brand new PC vs. 7 year old Mac).

That all has nothing to do with "personal preference" or "can't be measured", like you claim. It´s facts, right in front of you, which are measurable with your eyes. Don't need benchmarks to see a crash or malfunction.
Personal preference? Is that the computer should work without having to experiment on it.

Seems like you have a kind of allergy against anything non-Win PC and can't resist ridiculing that "overpriced product".

It´s like a guy with a pimped-up Mercedes of 500 hp ridiculing an Aston Martin of 300 hp, because the Aston costs more and is slower on straight line, not considering that driving a car also implies curves, agility, reliability, etc...

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?

In my 42 years I learned one thing: underestimating others is the biggest mistake.


Thanks. From my side the intellectual exchange is also closed... if it´s on such a "religious" level.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: maru on 2019-06-05, 16:43:35
Juraj, what have you done? ;)

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?
Designerman77 - Juraj is only referring to those mindless defenders, who are fighting on BOTH SIDES of the conflict. He mentioned it a few times already.
If this discussion does not calm down, we (mods) will have to start the purification process. ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-05, 17:54:55
Wow. Well. Back to my topic. If someone fancies posting a good and a budget spec for this build it might help alot of users. Ill put it in the first post if someone has a spec.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Designerman77 on 2019-06-05, 18:05:37
Maru, I very well understand what Juraj was referring to. I do agree with his technical point of view and AM thankful for his info & opinion. No question.

Only the theory about "stupid Mac users" is questionable, especially knowing that many Corona clients use Macs.

Actually I came here to get more knowledge about the Threadripper 2990WX... since I'm quite interested in it.

However... guys, let's be friends again, connected by our common love to Corona. :)

Juraj, I love your 3D work - a benchmark I´m truly interested in. :)
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-05, 18:31:39
Juraj, what have you done? ;)

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?
Designerman77 - Juraj is only referring to those mindless defenders, who are fighting on BOTH SIDES of the conflict. He mentioned it a few times already.
If this discussion does not calm down, we (mods) will have to start the purification process. ;)


I've no idea :- ). People see what they want to see.. I think we can keep all the exchange above here, I think it does pertain to cost aspect of 2990WX even if it went wildy outside.. But I would stop the discussion on it further, I surely rested my case.

I never even mentioned any users.. and neither in between lines or in my thoughts.


Wow. Well. Back to my topic. If someone fancies posting a good and a budget spec for this build it might help alot of users. Ill put it in the first post if someone has a spec.



That's the issue little bit, the 2990WX does not play optimally with the budget boards and neither it is a budget chip, even if the performance makes it a bargain. Right afterwards it requires at least the best air cooler on Market, and beefy PSU.

So the base is never cheap to begin with. But it got me idea, I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.



Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: lupaz on 2019-06-05, 20:07:36
I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.

That would great and very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-05, 21:12:10
I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.

Im still looking to upgrade our studio PCs so that would be amazing if you get the time.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Namik Pirkic on 2019-06-07, 14:33:22
hello :) although it might not be 2990wx strictly, i'm here to spec-out my build with 2970wx.

motherboard: asrock taichi x399;
ram: corsair vengeance lpx 4x16gb, 3000mhz (cmk64gx4m4d3000c16);
cpu: 2970wx;
cooler: noctua nh-u14 s;
gpu (some old radeon from my previous pc);

so far everything is working fine, cinebench score is pretty impressive at stock speed as well as the official corona renderer benchmark.

didn't write other components (casing etc etc as i find it unrellevant :) ).
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: maru on 2019-06-11, 14:58:45
Some interesting news:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14516/amd-16-core-ryzen-9-3950x-up-to-4-7-ghz-105w-coming-september
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-11, 17:32:24
Some interesting news:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14516/amd-16-core-ryzen-9-3950x-up-to-4-7-ghz-105w-coming-september

Pretty cool but isnt it essentially the original 1950x just in a smaller form factor?
Itll definitely make decent rendering performance more accessible for beginners.
I still want my 32 cores haha.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: nkilar on 2019-06-11, 19:01:59
Some interesting news:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14516/amd-16-core-ryzen-9-3950x-up-to-4-7-ghz-105w-coming-september

Pretty cool but isnt it essentially the original 1950x just in a smaller form factor?
Itll definitely make decent rendering performance more accessible for beginners.
I still want my 32 cores haha.

I suppose in a way yeah but it supposedly delivers 15% more firepower per clock and Juraj also mentioned there could be AVX improvements too. Didn't read much about that yet though. Can't wait to see the new 32 (or hopefully more) Threadrippers / Epyc CPUs. I'm also interested in seeing how Intel responds.

The 3950x, I think its shaping up to be a really fine product if you ask me. With some overclocking you've got a "mainstream" priced CPU that rivals what Intel currently offers on its HEDT for twice as much money as the 3950x. I even saw a few 4 PCI-E slot motherboards which probably rely on the PLX switch but it offers a very good entry level platform for GPU rendering as well - if you ask me.

All in all, looking really good. They probably could have pushed the price lower but they do need to make some money after all these years :)

Man, just imagine, 3 years ago you would have payed like 4000$ for this type of performance.
Title: Re: Threadripper 2990WX
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-06-11, 20:38:03
All in all, looking really good. They probably could have pushed the price lower but they do need to make some money after all these years :)

If you compare this to their 2950x on the x399 platform, this does come out cheaper with cpu/mobo/ram/cooler by $100-$200 depending on which motherboard you get. Ohh and your most likely going to better performance on the 3950x with pci gen 4 and faster memory for future use. To me it seems like the 3900x & 3950x's competition is their own threadripper lineup 2920x & 2950x.

Wondering where this is going to leave the threadripper platform for zen 2? Are we only going to see 2 models 3970x & 3990x? Don't get me wrong those are gonna be some monsters of a cpu but the starting price for those threadrippers will be $1k+ based on the current ones.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-12, 00:23:49
The 3950X will be much better CPU than 1950/2950X Threadripper as long as the chiplet communication doesn't end up being secret bottleneck (As we already know from practice, Corona Renderer doesn't mirror more common multithreaded apps like Cinebench).
The Cinebench overclocked on air score is amazing, beyond 4000 points. You can't even get close to that with Zen1 Threadrippers. And yeah, CPU lanes, bla blah...look at the whole platform, it's already taken much more seriously by vendors than X399 sadly.

And what is trully tragic, you can already buy much better X570 boards for workstations than X399 has. There will be more 10gbit Workstation boards for X570 than X399 has in all those years.

So right now I wouldn't hold breath for Zen2 Threadrippers being around the corner.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-06-12, 08:40:31
The 3950X will be much better CPU than 1950/2950X Threadripper as long as the chiplet communication doesn't end up being secret bottleneck (As we already know from practice, Corona Renderer doesn't mirror more common multithreaded apps like Cinebench).
The Cinebench overclocked on air score is amazing, beyond 4000 points. You can't even get close to that with Zen1 Threadrippers. And yeah, CPU lanes, bla blah...look at the whole platform, it's already taken much more seriously by vendors than X399 sadly.

And what is trully tragic, you can already buy much better X570 boards for workstations than X399 has. There will be more 10gbit Workstation boards for X570 than X399 has in all those years.

So right now I wouldn't hold breath for Zen2 Threadrippers being around the corner.

I could only find a cinebench r15 water cooled pic of the 3950x @4300 something. My 1920x can only manage 2700 on r15.

There's going to be plenty of x570 boards for sure. From what i've read over on the amd reddit the prices of some of the x570 board will be in the ballpark of the x399 mobos. If only july would get here sooner so we could see some 3900x benchmarks and uses.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-12, 18:20:15
Wasnt that new 16c with 80% of 2990wx performance seriously overclocked with like 1.45Vcore ? I dont think thats sometihng you would like to run 24/7.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-12, 18:54:21
Yes, but it's also much lower TDP chip so with good enough cooling, and you don't usually render 24/7 all the time, that would still be years to survive just fine.

Some people are folding at these voltages.

But that's just record. Let's say you can get it under 1.4 for @4000 C15 points. That's still massive and already very sustainable.

We can just pray to rendering gods that somewhere, someday, Zen2 48C Threadripper will become reality.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-06-12, 19:36:50
Right on, the excitement is real :P

One thing to note though guys is that the 2990WX scores about 5100~ points in R15 but the performance in Corona equals to around 42 secs which is cca a 2x 2969v3 (~4400 points).

Whether that is because of memory speeds (infinity fabric?) or AVX I am unsure but I will be extremely interested in seeing how that behaves with these new chip designs.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-12, 20:14:06
Yeah that. There is some penalty in Corona to Threadripper. I wondered why is that for long time. Regressing times with lower memory clocks would point towards the architecture itself (Inf Fab) but perhaps it's something potentially alleviable on software side.
I don't think Corona devs do this kind of testing though...and this is still software built upon Intel Framework. Do other Embree softs show such discrepancy ? Like Vray Next ?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-12, 22:21:51
Its also sad that in CB R20 i can get almost 12 500 points with PBO enabled but in Corona its always 41s.

In C15 with PBO enabled im getting around 5500 points. Thats 31% difference (just with PBO) compared to new 16c unit. And that should be selling point if someone is deciding between new 16c vs 32c. Overclocked 2990wx can climb even higher.

Question is...it is worth ? Price difference is quite big (if TR prices remains the same).

I`d still get 2990wx but we will see. I hope next gen TR will be compatibile with x399.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-13, 01:05:00


In C15 with PBO enabled im getting around 5500 points. Thats 31% difference (just with PBO) compared to new 16c unit. And that should be selling point if someone is deciding between new 16c vs 32c. Overclocked 2990wx can climb even higher.


That is very true, but it comes at higher cost. Overclocked 2990WX can reach beyond 500W draw (from nominal 250 TDP), that is such a massive heat it requires custom loop. Those loops Peter and I built cost 700+ Euro in parts alone.
The 3950X is 105 TDP chip. It will not go above 250W in draw whatsoever, so it will overclock on regular AIO loop without forcing the fans to spin at 2000 rpm. So it's a chip even non-enthusiast can overclock without much of investment, that's further value in price.

Anyway, it's not true contender for 2990WX. But it's fantastic that such chip can get to "masses" (so to speak..). Whethever it will live up to its hype, it's still sort of revolutionary.

This chip is direct contender for Intel's marketing stunt of i9 9990XE which after auctioned part, is selling for 2799 Euro !?!?!

https://www.caseking.de/en/intel-core-i9-9990xe-skylake-x-sockel-2066-tray-hpit-549.html
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-13, 12:07:38
I wonder if the release of the 3950x will trigger a price drop in any of the threadripper range.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-13, 12:23:30
Absolutely. Any vendor who wouldn't would be massive fool. Look at what happened to prices of 1950X. Yes some shops always keeps their prices up for years, but everyone who actually wanted to sell that CPU did so with up to 60perc. discount. The CPU went for peanuts on bazaars/auctions.

The hype is so strong ! New benchmarks every day. It's crazy that it might obliterate my 18core i9 7980XE (with dellid!!).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-13, 16:57:53
Absolutely. Any vendor who wouldn't would be massive fool. Look at what happened to prices of 1950X. Yes some shops always keeps their prices up for years, but everyone who actually wanted to sell that CPU did so with up to 60perc. discount. The CPU went for peanuts on bazaars/auctions.

The hype is so strong ! New benchmarks every day. It's crazy that it might obliterate my 18core i9 7980XE (with dellid!!).

Whats your CBR20 score with that cpu ? I was interested in it before buying 2990wx (TR wasnt released yet) after talking with Jakub Cech but im glad i waited for 32c.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-13, 17:16:09
I will be rebuilding this WS (7980XE) next week to also have water cooling, I kinda don't want to spend money on it but I already have it so I'll keep it for some time, at least until something 48c won't surface out.
I will run full suite of benchmarks afterwards as right now my AVX turbo (one I have to run with Corona) is not that high...

You did good waiting for Threadripper as it's better chip overall but surprisingly the scores in Corona aren't that far behind to Veronika's 2990WX. Cinebench R15 is different league, there it is behind ( 4400 points).

Even with delid this chip is terrible thermally and my NH-D15 is absolutely squeling :- ). Drives me insane hence the watercooling because I can't sell it, no one would buy it anymore.
(Did Jakub tell you he's keeping the PC in wardrobe lol).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-06-13, 17:45:19
Don't want to ruin the nice debate you two have going (was thinking about similar cpus for an extra workstation myself) but Wccftech just posted a rumor about a 64 core TR possibly coming in Q4. I guess its kind of pointless until its confirmed but hey...
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-13, 18:00:38
I would take everything that cesspool of basement dwelling neckbeards write with bucket of salt on teen foot pole stick, but...

.. that is some over the top rumour ;- ). Looks like AMD will make for another very exciting year on CPU field. Sticking to CPU renderer isn't such an issue anymore.

I don't want to mention Silver Kitchen Appliance for Pros™ but it better watch out..
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-13, 18:14:18
Yea Corona benchmark is not even affected by PBO. Rendertime is still the same with or without it enabled.

And regarding TR, even if they released 64C TR my guess is that it will be attacking 4k+ euro. I dont think we will see 64c TR anyway. There is several logical reasons for it.

There was a lot of rumors about new Ryzens as well and most of those rumors were false.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: numerobis on 2019-06-13, 18:17:07
https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-is-working-on-a-monster-64-core-threadripper-landing-as-early-as-q4-2019/
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-13, 19:15:57
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c01sln/according_to_amd_a_stock_3900x_beats_an_all_core/

If stock 3950x can do 9k points, i can sell my 2990wx and just slightly OC that 16core.

Depends how it perform with Corona...
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-06-13, 19:46:38
@michaltimko

Hmm, that is interesting. I wouldn't get _that_ excited though :)) I mean at the end of the day we are looking at a base core boost (we don't know the all core turbo yet) + extra cores + apparently ~15-20 IPC gain versus the previous gen so if we do the math we should kinda know the ballpark numbers I guess.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-13, 19:58:11
So does anyone remember how two years ago Intel sold quad-core HEDT cpus for x299 platform ? The infamous KabyLake-"X"  i7-7740X for 400 Euros ?

The one that was just 30perc. faster at stock than 6 years old (back then, 8 years now) Sandy Bridge i7 2700k, but overclocked worse, so it was almost tie. Who would guess what would come.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: michaltimko on 2019-06-13, 20:13:31
Haha yea.

Now imagine new 32core TR with 17-18k cinebench points. With 10-15% ipc on desktop variants, i`d expect different score but who knows.

EDIT : https://twitter.com/1usmus/status/1139213599891759105
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-06-16, 23:54:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE97qIGhV0Y&t=1930s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE97qIGhV0Y&t=1930s)
Talking about no market for the rumored 64 core zen 2 threadripper. Figured everyone browsing this topic here would suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-17, 17:03:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE97qIGhV0Y&t=1930s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE97qIGhV0Y&t=1930s)
Talking about no market for the rumored 64 core zen 2 threadripper. Figured everyone browsing this topic here would suggest otherwise.

These videos are often not even worth commenting...entertainment level is very good but with so little value beyond that. These guys have such abstract, mythical ideal of who the target audience of HEDT/Prosumer systems are, and how varied they are that their all-in-one advice is always completely off the mark. They really should keep it strictly in the gaming systems territory.

"It needs dem ECC memoriez for "stability", long renders needs stability",etc.. all those stupidities they have been saying for years. Then you have a full generation of gamers who consider themselves experts on all things hardware involved.

And this is how we got RGB crap on our workstation boards.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Rimas on 2019-06-17, 17:44:40

These guys have such abstract, mythical ideal of who the target audience of HEDT/Prosumer systems are, and how varied they are that their all-in-one advice is always completely off the mark. They really should keep it strictly in the gaming systems territory.

"It needs dem ECC memoriez for "stability", long renders needs stability",etc.. all those stupidities they have been saying for years. Then you have a full generation of gamers who consider themselves experts on all things hardware involved.

And this is how we got RGB crap on our workstation boards.

Truer words haven't been spoken in a long time...
"Gamers" are the same idiots who constantly talked crap about raytracing too, when Nvidia came out with their RTX series. Reading "gamer" comments was a hair-pulling experience...

They should stick to what they know - fugly RGB and benchmarking Firestrike for no reason for hours :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-17, 19:15:50
I thought the latest benchmark for CPUs was whether you can get 200 or 240 fps in fullHD :- )
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Rimas on 2019-06-18, 10:23:49
I thought the latest benchmark for CPUs was whether you can get 200 or 240 fps in fullHD :- )

Probably. As if the world is stuck at 1080p. I personally moved on to 4K and 5K, but what do I know xD
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-18, 11:11:57
Hi guys,
I'm going to build a new workstation so I started searching some components compatible with my budget. That's what came out:

CPU: Ryzen 2970wx
MB: Asus Prime x399-A
GC: Asus RTX 2060
RAM: 64GB DDR4 3200Mhz
STORAGE: SSD PCE NVME 500GB
COOLING: any liquid cooling system

I have some questions:
1- RTX or GTX, I mean, is there some convenience switching to the new RTX?
2- Ram 3600Mhz, why not? I always saw 3000Mhz RAM in the configurations posted in this thread.
3- In the last posts I only read about air cooling system, what about liquid cooling system?

Thank you guys!
Andrea
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Charlie Nicols on 2019-06-19, 18:07:30
I would avoid liquid cooling, use Noctua. Liquid cooling may provide marginally better results but require more maintenance and tend to break sooner.

RTX isn't useful to us bar for gaming and even then not so much. I would consider the 1080 TI.

RAM wise the TR performs better with faster ram however I feel 3600 could decrease stability/ longevity of the build.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Namik Pirkic on 2019-06-20, 10:13:35
Hi guys,
I'm going to build a new workstation so I started searching some components compatible with my budget. That's what came out:

CPU: Ryzen 2970wx
MB: Asus Prime x399-A
GC: Asus RTX 2060
RAM: 64GB DDR4 3200Mhz
STORAGE: SSD PCE NVME 500GB
COOLING: any liquid cooling system

I have some questions:
1- RTX or GTX, I mean, is there some convenience switching to the new RTX?
2- Ram 3600Mhz, why not? I always saw 3000Mhz RAM in the configurations posted in this thread.
3- In the last posts I only read about air cooling system, what about liquid cooling system?

Thank you guys!
Andrea

hi :)

I have the same cpu (went with the asrock taichi mobo instead), and as Charlie stated, better avoid liquid cooling :) I went with the Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3, and I can only say that it is perfect. As for the ram, I really dont's see the point of going anything above 3000Mhz as that might be the highest stable frequency.

Good luck and have fun with your build! :D

ps, as you didn't state it, don't cheap out on PSU :) go with something beefy!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-20, 15:50:56
Surprisingly Liquid cooling doesnt always offer better performance OR noise levels. There was a test of a load of cooler master and noctua SKUs and i believe in ALL tests the air coolers performed better and were quieter. There are some exceptions. If you move around alot you wouldnt maybe want the huge heatsink TR4 commands hanging on your MOBO warping the board and breaking solder points during transit. But if it sits quietly under a desk then i would say go Air cooled every time (If your environment allows it)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-20, 16:27:35
Watercooling vs Air cooling is complex debate depending on many factors:

Cooling capacity is largely defined by surface area of heatsink for air coolers, and radiator for water loops. Both multiplied by airflow of attached fans.

So massive Noctua NH-D15 offers heatsink that's both large and deep providing lot of surface area to dissipate heat and it only needs single 14cm fan to do so.
It easily dwarfs majority of 280mm AIO (All-in-One) Water loops and comes up to about the same with 360mm systems that contain only slim radiator.

Both of these are mostly capable of dissipating up to 250W of heat with full-speed of fans. Some AIO loops like Enermax Liqtech claim up to 500W but this is pure bullshit. They are stronger though.

Threadripper complicates this as there only handful of dedicated coolers for it due to larger TR4 platform, both Air and Water. And the biggest Air Tower (NH-D15) will be coming to TR4 platform somewhere in Q1 2020 according to Noctua.
That leaves us with U14S, which is far from monster, and is just good enough for 2990WX. Enermax Liqtech can achieve 10C better temps under similar noise levels and is absolutely superior...but arguably under considerable risk of faulty model.

So that's basically it, you can go with Noctua U14S, or Enermax Liqtech II, there is nothing else to consider outside of custom loop. Every other cooler needs to be adapted to TR4 and wouldn't cover the heatsink.

If you're not planning on overclocking the system, Noctua U14S is the right choice.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-06-20, 17:21:31
Watercooling vs Air cooling is complex debate depending on many factors:

Cooling capacity is largely defined by surface area of heatsink for air coolers, and radiator for water loops. Both multiplied by airflow of attached fans.

So massive Noctua NH-D15 offers heatsink that's both large and deep providing lot of surface area to dissipate heat and it only needs single 14cm fan to do so.
It easily dwarfs majority of 280mm AIO (All-in-One) Water loops and comes up to about the same with 360mm systems that contain only slim radiator.

Both of these are mostly capable of dissipating up to 250W of heat with full-speed of fans. Some AIO loops like Enermax Liqtech claim up to 500W but this is pure bullshit. They are stronger though.

Threadripper complicates this as there only handful of dedicated coolers for it due to larger TR4 platform, both Air and Water. And the biggest Air Tower (NH-D15) will be coming to TR4 platform somewhere in Q1 2020 according to Noctua.
That leaves us with U14S, which is far from monster, and is just good enough for 2990WX. Enermax Liqtech can achieve 10C better temps under similar noise levels and is absolutely superior...but arguably under considerable risk of faulty model.

So that's basically it, you can go with Noctua U14S, or Enermax Liqtech II, there is nothing else to consider outside of custom loop. Every other cooler needs to be adapted to TR4 and wouldn't cover the heatsink.

If you're not planning on overclocking the system, Noctua U14S is the right choice.

Theyre the two coolers i have shortlisted but potentially with a second fan on the noctua. Though i heard there was a few leaky rads from enermax.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-20, 18:25:42
By now there are four revisions, two revision per each generation. So you want the latest, not something left on some shop from last year :- ). But how do you make sure ? Bit of unnecessary work...

That's the kind of quality you can expect from lot of AIO loops sadly.

The second fan on Noctua UH/14 helps by about 1C, it's not really needed, but doesn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-21, 08:38:32
Thank you all guys, I really appreciate your help.
Now I have clearer ideas: ok for the Noctua and 3.00Ghz RAM. I think I'll go with the Ryzen 2990WX: it costs more but worth it in my opinion (I use this PC for rendering mostly). So The Noctua U14S is also good for the Ryzen 2990WX? What's a good motherboard for thi CPU? And, last question, if a Quadro P2000 costs as much as a GTX1070, why is preferable the last one?

Thank you, have a nice day!
Andrea
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Namik Pirkic on 2019-06-21, 09:49:59
Thank you all guys, I really appreciate your help.
Now I have clearer ideas: ok for the Noctua and 3.00Ghz RAM. I think I'll go with the Ryzen 2990WX: it costs more but worth it in my opinion (I use this PC for rendering mostly). So The Noctua U14S is also good for the Ryzen 2990WX? What's a good motherboard for thi CPU? And, last question, if a Quadro P2000 costs as much as a GTX1070, why is preferable the last one?

Thank you, have a nice day!
Andrea

hi :) well if you don't plan to overclock, u14s is more than enough :) my temps never went above 65-67C when rendering. As for the motherboard, first I wanted to go with the Aorus but re-thinking my choices, went with asrock taichi and everything works fine :)

for the graphics, i dont know :D i'm mister flintstone, still using some old crappy r9 gpu from radeon :D
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-21, 12:39:18
I do not know where is that Roy's thread since I think it was in other section, but to save yourself from troubles, pick only one of these 3 boards:

1) Asus Zenith ALPHA (not just Zenith). Solid VRM, Solid VRM cooling, 10GBit, will not support 4xGPUs because of the layout. Probably the best board right now.
2) MSI MEG. Excellent VRM, Solid VRM cooling (doesn't even need it), lacks 10Gbit support, will not support 4xGPUs because of the layout. Also great board, but I put it now second because it lacks onboard 10Gbit.
3) Gigabyte AORUS XTREME. Good enough VRM (better then every other board outside of these 3, but much worse than the two above), not good VRM cooling (requires good case airflow to keep in check). 10Gbit, AND as the only board supports 4x GPU because the layout isn't pushed down due to VRM mosfets..

If you are building a workstation for 2990WX, do not consider even for briefest moment anything else than these three. In fact, those first two will be even capable of supporting Zen2 Threadrippers when they eventually come because of solid power cascade.

For those building 2950/2970WX, you can go for any board, not just those three, but those three are still better choice, and you will not regret investing into the top two (ALPHA and MEG).

If you don't plan to use more than 64GB of memory, you can also wait little bit more and just buy the 16core Ryzen9 potentially. It's not competitor for 2990WX, but it is good competitor for 2950/2970WX.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-21, 15:17:14
I do not know where is that Roy's thread since I think it was in other section, but to save yourself from troubles, pick only one of these 3 boards:

1) Asus Zenith ALPHA (not just Zenith). Solid VRM, Solid VRM cooling, 10GBit, will not support 4xGPUs because of the layout. Probably the best board right now.
2) MSI MEG. Excellent VRM, Solid VRM cooling (doesn't even need it), lacks 10Gbit support, will not support 4xGPUs because of the layout. Also great board, but I put it now second because it lacks onboard 10Gbit.
3) Gigabyte AORUS XTREME. Good enough VRM (better then every other board outside of these 3, but much worse than the two above), not good VRM cooling (requires good case airflow to keep in check). 10Gbit, AND as the only board supports 4x GPU because the layout isn't pushed down due to VRM mosfets..

If you are building a workstation for 2990WX, do not consider even for briefest moment anything else than these three. In fact, those first two will be even capable of supporting Zen2 Threadrippers when they eventually come because of solid power cascade.

For those building 2950/2970WX, you can go for any board, not just those three, but those three are still better choice, and you will not regret investing into the top two (ALPHA and MEG).

If you don't plan to use more than 64GB of memory, you can also wait little bit more and just buy the 16core Ryzen9 potentially. It's not competitor for 2990WX, but it is good competitor for 2950/2970WX.

Thk,
ok for MSI MEG X399 Creation, I can't find the Alpha version of the Asus. Now the only doubt is about the Graphic Card, I'm not interested in GPU rendering, maybe the right choice for me is the Nvidia Quadro P2000...
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-21, 17:08:59
nVidia Quadro is never the right choice by default unless you specifically need one of the following:

1) 10Bit OpenGL Color output. GTX/RTX can also output 10bit color but only inside full-screen DirectX environment, so not Photoshop. You also need 10Bit monitor (not 8bit + FRC) to benefit from this.
2) You work predominantly in OpenGL Environments like CAD. 3dsMax is running under DirectX, so it has no performance improvement. Even not all OpenGL apps benefit from Quadro driver, for example AutoCad shows little improvement, but Siemens NX shows a lot.
3)ECC memory is not for stability as many people believe. It's mainly to correct mistakes for calculations that depend on it, such as scientific, financial, medical,..
4)You need double float precision. If you are CGI artist, you don't. It's once again important for scientific purpose.

5) You need currently more memory, but this is only if you buy the most expensive models. Quadros currently come up to 24GB of memory (and faster HBM2 type).

CGI artists should always by default go for GTX/RTX, regardless if they use it just for viewports (3dsMax) or CUDA rendering (Vray,Fstorm,Octane,...).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-21, 20:42:01
Tiny bit off-topic but I just built another full loop workstation based on my i9 7980XE and now I wish I had used the same case for Veronika's 2990WX. This is  Lian-Li V3000, one of their newest.

The separate tunnel in lower part of case (just like CaseLabs or the old Corsaid 900D, but this one is much better, smaller, lot more elegant) makes sure the hot airflow doesn't heat the interior space, so if you set up only two radiators (without front one), you can have perfect separate airflows for water loop and case. That's very good for motherboard, VRM, m.2 disks, GPUs not in loop, network card,etc..

It's so silent... So if someone wants to build 2990WX with big overclock in mind (4.0-4.1 all-core)  and absolutely 0 decibels ( this i9 draws 300 +/- W now at 500 RPMs, but I could keep the same speed at 500W draw as well, there is massive overhead),
than this is the absolute best case there is, bar none. And it's simple and pretty.

I can't wait when I rip that i9 back into Define R6 with smaller loop and replace it with 48/64core Threadripper when they come ! This PC is ready.

(https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21416.0;attach=107236;image)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lolec on 2019-06-21, 20:43:30
Juraj:

For many years I gave the exact same advice you just gave...

I purchased a 2080ti and used it for a couple of months, then a co-worker got the RTX Quadro 5000 and allowed me to try it for a few days. I wanted to see if there was actually any difference, hoping to reinforce my idea that it wasn't worth it.

I immediately noticed a huge change.

3dsmax runs a little smoother and so does illustrator and solid edge.  I had an issue before, where running 3dsmax and Illustrator or Solid at the same time would hurt performance in Max, difficult to measure but very noticeable.

With the Quadro, all of those little issues are gone!

The 5000 is essentially the same as the 2080ti so, I didn't notice any speed improvements, but the platform definitely feels more stable and robust.

It is twice the price, but I think it is worth it based on how it feels. I  know that is incredibly subjective and even though I would like to provide some hard numbers, I can't. My only advice would be, if you have a chance to test a Quadro with your exact setup and workflow, give it a try, you might be surprised.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-21, 20:50:07
Do you have 3ds Max 2016/17/18/19 with DX11 viewport ? Because I did such comparison with fspec too and didn't see any difference in my scenes.

I compared this back at Maxwell generation though (Titan-X Maxwell and what was it P-series Quadro of similar performance).
You are not the first one to tell me this, Adam Hotovy also swore this to me back in time. But Dionysios from CGArchitect did massive fps comparison and didn't find any difference at all either.

Maybe there is something (after all, Illustrator IS OpenGL, but 3dsMax isn't unless you set it up like that) for it in specific viewport configurations, but in my setup (Shaded with edges) there was nothing. No FPS improvement, no smoothness difference.

Maybe it's time for another test, esp. since nVidia is coming again with specialized driver (but mainly for Arnold inside Max and Maya).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lupaz on 2019-06-21, 22:23:09

Gorgeous.
I may have missed it, but did you mention the case brand and model? Is that the Define R6?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-21, 22:44:43

Gorgeous.
I may have missed it, but did you mention the case brand and model? Is that the Define R6?

Hups, I am rather dumb :- D Lian-Li V3000. It's half bigger than Define R6, barely fits below table, but not as big as CaseLabs (and Thermaltake copy) are. Still very massive.

Previously it was in Define R5, but Define only support one slim radiator on top (420mm) and one semi-thick in front (280mm). Here I have two semi-thick 420mm and they don't heat up ambient.
When Zen2 Threadripper comes out, I will put the i9 back into Define R5 with above described loop, and put the new Zen2 TR into this Lian-Li case.

The i9 went on my nerves with noise. With NH-D15 it was quite loud for my tastes. So I needed water setup to not loose my nerves and decided to go big in preparation for the future.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lupaz on 2019-06-22, 16:46:04
Thanks.
I had a fractal design before and it was good, but ridiculously heavy.
Glad to see another brand that you recommend.

BTW, the last case I got was a Be Quiet. Don't recommend it. Not quiet at all in my opinion.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: psanitra on 2019-06-23, 14:31:48
Hey guys, somebody on W10 1903 ?  i updated last week, but i don`t see any improvements to 2990wx performance...

Looking forward for next generation of Threadrippers later on this year. Seems like  EPYC lineup shows really great improvements https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-rome-server-cpu-7nm-zen-2-price-specs-leak-64-cores-under-10k/  , completely destroying Intel in  performance/watt/price ratio.


Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-23, 20:00:00
Hey guys, somebody on W10 1903 ?  i updated last week, but i don`t see any improvements to 2990wx performance...

Looking forward for next generation of Threadrippers later on this year. Seems like  EPYC lineup shows really great improvements https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-rome-server-cpu-7nm-zen-2-price-specs-leak-64-cores-under-10k/  , completely destroying Intel in  performance/watt/price ratio.

You should be happy the performance isn't worse :- D !

No, didn't notice anything either. Some sort of placebo watching the Utilization curves for single-thread benchmarks give me faint feeling that maybe there is some scheduling improvement...but I could just as well be making that up fully. No numbers for anything.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-24, 03:24:02
Since I built the 2990WX for Veronika in October, never once the PC crashed. Upgraded to 1903 Windows build and voila, five Corona crashes finally following the most common BSOD (pfn_corrupt).

Dudes...let's all wait 1-2 more months ;- )

(And make sure you have latest UEFI and drivers)

(i9 and all Xeon servers work just fine though..)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-24, 11:04:56
Wait for new Ryzen?
So is it better to take an i9-7980xe? Paying 300/400€ more?

Sorry but I was going to order the components for the 2990wx, now I'm a little bit confused ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: PROH on 2019-06-24, 11:45:32
engiy@ I think Juraj meant wait with the 1903 Windows build, since it's apparently not yet working with the Threadripper.

But I might be wrong?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-24, 12:00:42
engiy@ I think Juraj meant wait with the 1903 Windows build, since it's apparently not yet working with the Threadripper.

But I might be wrong?

I think you're right!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-24, 13:00:22
engiy@ I think Juraj meant wait with the 1903 Windows build, since it's apparently not yet working with the Threadripper.

But I might be wrong?

I am not sure it was the lack of my MB drivers (or which ones), but reverting to 1803 solved all issues. All other PCs (lot of them), render correctly currently on 1903, no BSODs.
Just the 2990WX. It could be MSI MEG, not 2990WX the culprit, but after bit of googling, it looks like the 1903 despite being "May" update, is still not stable.

So my advice was just to wait before you update, or if you do update, don't delete your revert point :- ). Reverting fast 3 minutes, thankfully.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-24, 13:07:39
Wait for new Ryzen?
So is it better to take an i9-7980xe? Paying 300/400€ more?

Sorry but I was going to order the components for the 2990wx, now I'm a little bit confused ;)

Don't wait for anything, 2990WX is still great choice right now to buy.

With the Ryzen9, you would probably have to wait for the rumored x590 version of chipset to get good enough power cascade to overclock it. Also, it's dual-channel 4dimm slot platform. So you will be limited with 64GB of memory (at least until support for 32GB modules which Samsung started producing recently will become available. But that is 'when' and 'if' ).

i9 7980XE is absolutely not better chip, neither is any i9. I only have it because it came much earlier than Threadripper and I got good deal for it (I bought it half the price).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-24, 15:15:22
Wait for new Ryzen?
So is it better to take an i9-7980xe? Paying 300/400€ more?

Sorry but I was going to order the components for the 2990wx, now I'm a little bit confused ;)

Don't wait for anything, 2990WX is still great choice right now to buy.

With the Ryzen9, you would probably have to wait for the rumored x590 version of chipset to get good enough power cascade to overclock it. Also, it's dual-channel 4dimm slot platform. So you will be limited with 64GB of memory (at least until support for 32GB modules which Samsung started producing recently will become available. But that is 'when' and 'if' ).

i9 7980XE is absolutely not better chip, neither is any i9. I only have it because it came much earlier than Threadripper and I got good deal for it (I bought it half the price).

Ok, thank you.
I can't find the alpha version of the Motherboard Asus, is it better to take the Zenith Extreme (no Alpha) or the MSI Meg creation?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-24, 15:24:59
Ok, thank you.
I can't find the alpha version of the Motherboard Asus, is it better to take the Zenith Extreme (no Alpha) or the MSI Meg creation?

Non-alpha, the original Zenith Extreme, not under any circumstances. You would have to buy additional 10 euro 40mm cooling fan kit Asus sells and it would look hilarious, and both VRM and chipset cooling would still be pretty bad.

If you don't want 4xGPU in future (in which case Aorus Xtreme is the only board that supports doing so), then MSI MEG. Reason why Alpha and MEG can't have 4 dual PCI-e slots is because those big VRMs don't fit even on regular E-ATX board together.

Where are you from ? There are plenty of Alphas on Amazon in US and EU when I checked at least. The 10Gbit onboard plus Asus UEFI (much nicer than MSI's...) are big benefits for going for Asus, but from hardware standpoint, MSI's VRM is still superior.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-25, 07:11:37
Ok, thank you.
I can't find the alpha version of the Motherboard Asus, is it better to take the Zenith Extreme (no Alpha) or the MSI Meg creation?

Non-alpha, the original Zenith Extreme, not under any circumstances. You would have to buy additional 10 euro 40mm cooling fan kit Asus sells and it would look hilarious, and both VRM and chipset cooling would still be pretty bad.

If you don't want 4xGPU in future (in which case Aorus Xtreme is the only board that supports doing so), then MSI MEG. Reason why Alpha and MEG can't have 4 dual PCI-e slots is because those big VRMs don't fit even on regular E-ATX board together.

Where are you from ? There are plenty of Alphas on Amazon in US and EU when I checked at least. The 10Gbit onboard plus Asus UEFI (much nicer than MSI's...) are big benefits for going for Asus, but from hardware standpoint, MSI's VRM is still superior.

I come from Italy, for convenience, I was searching only in Amazon, now I found it in another marketplace! Thank you!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-25, 16:36:24
Post a photo when you get it and start building :- ) It's great looking board.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-25, 19:31:55
Post a photo when you get it and start building :- ) It's great looking board.

Yes it's gorgeous! So this is the final selection:

CPU: Ryzen 2990wx
MB: Asus ROG Zenith Extreme Alpha
Cooler: Enermax LiqTech II 360 RGB
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 PC3000Mhz 64GB
PSU: Corsair RM850x
GC: Asus ROG Strix RTX2060
Case: Fractal Design R6 GunMetal USB-C
Storage: Samsung M2 SSD NVMe 970 EVO Plus 500GB

Hope it'll get the job done!;)

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-26, 11:54:25
Post a photo when you get it and start building :- ) It's great looking board.

Yes it's gorgeous! So this is the final selection:

CPU: Ryzen 2990wx
MB: Asus ROG Zenith Extreme Alpha
Cooler: Enermax LiqTech II 360 RGB
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 PC3000Mhz 64GB
PSU: Corsair RM850x
GC: Asus ROG Strix RTX2060
Case: Fractal Design R6 GunMetal USB-C
Storage: Samsung M2 SSD NVMe 970 EVO Plus 500GB

Hope it'll get the job done!;)

I thought that was better to take the Enermax, because I really don't like the shitty brown fan of the Noctua and it gives you pretty the same performance of Noctua (although I thought it was better being a liquid system)...but yesterday I saw a comparison between Noctua and two liquid cooler systems (not by Enermax), Noctua was better both from a noise and thermal point of view.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-26, 12:57:01
This is actually very tricky, here is brief breakdown:

Noctua NH-D15, and even UH-14S, destroy 90perc. of AIO loops. That's because slim radiator of poor design, terribly weak Asetec pump, narrow tubing,etc...
NH-D15 can currently dissipate roughly 320W of heat, at full RPM (1500), UH-14S 250W. This is for regular platforms like AMD AM4 and Intel LGA1151.

For big platform like AMD TR4, only few of the above coolers are available because you need full heatspreader coverage, so those tests also often include adapted coolers and those of course, perform terrible.

But even for TR4, only two stand-out coolers are available, UH-14S TR4 (D15 will be available in Q1/2020...sadly) and Enermax Liqtech II. The former still dissipates only 250W, so good enough for not overclocking the chip.
Enermax claims it can dissipate up to 500W.

Both of these are theoretical bullshit numbers. With good case ambient and airflow, Noctua UH-14S TR4 could dissipate in peaks up to 300W at 1500RPM. Enermax on other hand, is using 2300RPM, which will sound like tornado when placed next to radiotor (most of noise is not from fans, but air turbulence through pressure).
If you would equilize these coolers for accoustic performance, i.e how much do they perform at 30dB, it would be like 1500RPM for Noctua and 1200 RPM for Enermax (rough approximations, depends on position, case,etc..) but Enermax would ultimately still win, giving you maybe 8-10C better Delta (temperature difference over ambient).

So AIO is the winner this time, but it's only this particular AIO (Enermax), no other, and only on this specific platform, TR4. There are no universal rules.

Next year, the clear winner will be new NH-D15 TR4, and it will come in full black :- ) heatsink+fans.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8geYzAxIvzU/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-26, 14:42:51
Thank you to your informations!
Black is so cool indeed, however I'll go with Enermax. I'm going to place the order, hope to remember how to assemble a PC...It has been so many years since I assembled one!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-06-26, 14:51:03
Thank you to your informations!
Black is so cool indeed, however I'll go with Enermax. I'm going to place the order, hope to remember how to assemble a PC...It has been so many years since I assembled one!

You will be good because TR4 is 'stupid-proof' platform :- ). The pins are not on the expensive chip, but on motherboard, so you cannot destroy the CPU accidently...  And there is also tray into which the chip slides first...it's very LEGO like, probably the easiest platform to build. You can have both hands left and you will still be unable to make any mistake.

Only the thermal paste is bit hassle because the heatspreader is so large that single blob doesn't work (doesn't work so well..). You can do AMD's suggested "X" method (two crossed lines), or 5 small blobs. Or if you feel like pro, you can put on gloves and spread thin layer manually, but the first two methods are good enough and very easy to do.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: psanitra on 2019-06-26, 22:33:11
That new NH-D15 looks really good! I`ll definitely try one of those when i get the chance. 
On the other hand, dissipating 400W into the case...., not something to take lightly.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-06-27, 17:34:03
Thank you to your informations!
Black is so cool indeed, however I'll go with Enermax. I'm going to place the order, hope to remember how to assemble a PC...It has been so many years since I assembled one!

You will be good because TR4 is 'stupid-proof' platform :- ). The pins are not on the expensive chip, but on motherboard, so you cannot destroy the CPU accidently...  And there is also tray into which the chip slides first...it's very LEGO like, probably the easiest platform to build. You can have both hands left and you will still be unable to make any mistake.

Only the thermal paste is bit hassle because the heatspreader is so large that single blob doesn't work (doesn't work so well..). You can do AMD's suggested "X" method (two crossed lines), or 5 small blobs. Or if you feel like pro, you can put on gloves and spread thin layer manually, but the first two methods are good enough and very easy to do.

Ok, I placed the order, everything sold and shipped by Amazon, only the CPU from another shop so I'm more comfortable with the warranty.
I can't wait to assemble it!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-04, 16:14:19
Hi guys, here's some pics!
34° in idle, 57° full load! Is it good?

Thank you for your help guys ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-04, 18:21:35
Looks fantastic ! Simple and to point.

What are the fan RPMs under full load on default auto-settings ?

Right now you have more negative pressure in the case, if you find it gets bit too dusty, you can add one more fan to the front to get more positive pressure into the case, or you can tape the pci brackets to shut them off (but that could add temperature to the gpu).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-04, 19:19:56
Looks fantastic ! Simple and to point.

What are the fan RPMs under full load on default auto-settings ?

Right now you have more negative pressure in the case, if you find it gets bit too dusty, you can add one more fan to the front to get more positive pressure into the case, or you can tape the pci brackets to shut them off (but that could add temperature to the gpu).

In idle they are between 1100 and 1200rpm, under full load they didn't go over 1700rmp with 51° max (maybe because the room is less hot now). I updated the BIOS but I'm still in Windows 1809. Good data?

P.S.: I paid attention to the thermal paste, I used Thermal Grizzly!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-07-08, 08:44:08
So... The reviews are out and Zen 2 looks quite impressive imho :) The 12-core variant scores 72s in Corona Benchmark which basically makes it as fast as the 1950x (16 core). Even core for core results look great and the clocks haven risen a bit which is always nice. Cinebench R15 for the 12 core part is around ~3150 points (205 single threaded) although I have not done the math yet if that translates 1:1 to Intel CPUs there.

Productivity things like WinRAR and the like have also seen a fairly big boost and AMD now leads in certain (not all though!) traditionally Intel favored tests so I'm not sure how Intel is going to react - given the performance alone Zen 2 is great but when you factor in the price its even harder to recommend anything from the 9900k to the 9980xe (once the 16 core zen 2 part get released) imho. I guess Intel's HEDT became mainstream somehow.

Overall from what I've read, Zen 2 seems to be a very well rounded CPU - They iterated and improved on Zen 1's weaknesses and retained the core advantage compared to the competition. That said, for 240hz gaming the 9700k/9900k seems to still be the way to go. I could be wrong but my impression is that AMD actually more or less has the IPC lead now but Intel still has those 9900k parts clocked higher and so they do retain single threaded lead - Not for everything anymore though.

Given the chiplet design I am fairly optimistic a lot of this performance could translate very well over to the high core count Threadripper line. I mean this is crazy, a couple of years ago you'd pay 6000$ for near 4000 cinebench points and now the 16 core 3950x for ~800$ will be in the vicinity of that - without a glaring weakness. Man, is that great or what? :P

What are your thoughts peeps?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-07-08, 19:25:04
For anyone that lives in the US near a microcenter they are have a huge price cut on the 2970wx for $750, if you also live near a staples you might be able to go to staples a do their 110% price match which drops this thing under $700.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/513570/ryzen-threadripper-2970wx-30ghz-24-core-tr4-boxed-processor (https://www.microcenter.com/product/513570/ryzen-threadripper-2970wx-30ghz-24-core-tr4-boxed-processor)

And the 3900x is throwing up some interesting numbers. Hopefully we get some leaks of the 3950x before September of practical overclocks. And more importantly hopefully we get some info on next gen THREADRIPPER!!!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lupaz on 2019-07-08, 19:47:05
Wow. Thanks Joe.
That's the same price as the Ryzen 9 3950x, which I was gonna go for.
But now that I see this price for the 2970wx...I don't know.
Anyone see any reason to wait for the 3950x vs just buying the 2970wx at the same price?

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-07-08, 21:28:38
Well, if you need PCI-E lanes and absolutely prioritize the all core / thread power I think thats a really awesome deal! Personally I'm tempted for the 2990wx but I am intrigued by the single thread performance uplift of Zen 2 plus the awesomeness of them potentially raising the core count.

Remember, 2970wx has some of the similar drawbacks that the 2990wx has due to the way that architecture works. Personally I quite highly value a better single core performance but obviously multi threaded performance is still number 1 priority so I guess I'm waiting for Zen 2 Threadripper. I know that is going to come at a premium price compared to the 2970wx / 2990wx. Without a doubt though I still think those two CPUs are really great value - especially if you can get the 2970wx for 750$ but I guess the improvements are looking good enough for me to wait out.

If I manage to be patient :P
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lupaz on 2019-07-08, 21:54:35
Yes. The single core performance is very important to me too.
I don't think the 2970wx will cut it for me.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-07-08, 23:55:02
Also should mention the 2990wx is on sale at microcenter as well for $1499. $300 off.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor (https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor)

If your okay with waiting for the 3950x, I don't see why you don't just wait for the new threadrippers?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Dalton Watts on 2019-07-09, 00:54:09
Does anyone want to buy my dual Xeon 2696 v3 workstation...? :)

I'm also waiting for the zen2 Threadrippers. Hopefully, single core performance will be on par with the 3900X (~205CB score) and multicore will be double that of my current dual Xeon workstation (4400CB). Like nkilar, I guess I'll wait till the end of the year instead of buying the 3900X or 3950X.

Generally speaking, do you guys think going from a 142 single core cinebench score (which is what I get on my dual Xeon workstation) to a 205 will be noticeable in overall 3ds max "snappiness"?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: lupaz on 2019-07-09, 02:08:09
Also should mention the 2990wx is on sale at microcenter as well for $1499. $300 off.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor (https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor)

If your okay with waiting for the 3950x, I don't see why you don't just wait for the new threadrippers?

Because I wouldn't spend over $1500 on just the CPU.
It's above my budget.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-07-09, 13:41:41
Also should mention the 2990wx is on sale at microcenter as well for $1499. $300 off.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor (https://www.microcenter.com/product/510650/ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-30-ghz-32-core-tr4-boxed-processor)

If your okay with waiting for the 3950x, I don't see why you don't just wait for the new threadrippers?

Because I wouldn't spend over $1500 on just the CPU.
It's above my budget.

Last i heard there wasnt any plans for new threadrippers??
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-07-09, 14:44:56
@Jpjapers Lisa Su was interviewed a while ago (after Computex but before New Horizons if I remember correctly) and she said that they have plans for the Threadripper line and its not depreciated.

My guess, and its only a guess, is that they'll probably wait for the wafers to start coming out in decent numbers and that the Epyc line gets priority treatment. Remember, they made quite a few big deals in the data center arena so its probably possible they prioritize that. If there is a planned Threadripper and its 64 core it will probably come out of the same dies as Epyc.

@Dalton Watts I don't know about 3ds Max but C4D is a bit more picky and I'm thinking the ~50ish point difference will show up. I do use 3ds Max here and there and I don't see much of an issue there with slower single threaded builds. For the viewport at least, I think 3ds Max prefers a better graphic card more but thats just the viewport. As long as you don't have those pesky threading issues heh... :)

@JoeVallard That's borderline crazy. So much value in existing products and yet the upgrades are supposedly also on the way... Fun times!!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: maru on 2019-07-09, 15:22:49
Damn, looks like these new Ryzens destroyed many buying guides. For example, it seems buying a TR 1920x does not make much sense any more with Ryzen 3700x. That's 400 € vs 350 € with similar or even better performance, and it will get even cheaper.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-07-09, 15:40:48
Damn, looks like these new Ryzens destroyed many buying guides. For example, it seems buying a TR 1920x does not make much sense any more with Ryzen 3700x. That's 400 € vs 350 € with similar or even better performance, and it will get even cheaper.

I paid $479 total for my Mobo and 1920x which is slightly cheaper than the 3900x alone. But yeah the 3900x just kicks all of the non wx models in the teeth with only 12 cores! Maybe the 3950x will give the 2970wx a run for is money. Even if they didn't add more cores to zen 2 threadripper, it would seem like the IPC gains alone would significantly increase the performance with the 24/32 thread TRs!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-10, 23:28:25
That said, for 240hz gaming

I really weep for humanity sometimes...even reading about the 144Hz was making my head hurt, but all these 720p benchmarks to see if I CPU is handicapping games above insane FPS count..

The new Ryzens are crazy. And looks like you can ignore the X570 if you don't need their better VRMs (which come with expensive PCI 4.0 and lot of gaming gimmick so you end up with insanely priced mainstream board. I mean...600-1000 Euro for non-HEDT motheboard ? 1:1 MB/CPU cost parity ? Oh man..gamers really make everything worse).

Good observations though :- ).

And yup...the progress in CPUs is finally totally crazy. I also paid 6000+ Euros for my first dual-xeon build few years go (2x2680v2, non-ES real stuff) and it's sadly sitting shut off for almost year...with 2600 CB15 points, it's not even worth to use in farm. And I can't even be bothered to sell it for few bucks...the Case + Coolers (Define XL2 + 2xU14s) alone are worth more than that mobo + CPUs :- ). I need to hire some new people I guess..

But this is fantastic for everyone, no one should need to waste money to fill corporate pockets just so you can get the right gear. It's almost like when SGI bankrupted (metaphorically) overnight when PCs came to market. Our CGI progenitors used 80k machines to render bunch of polygons...we are using 6k+ workstations...and in future everyone will use 2-3k workstations. Or even fraction of that with cloud, who knows where that trend will stop.

Even if they didn't add more cores to zen 2 threadripper, it would seem like the IPC gains alone would significantly increase the performance with the 24/32 thread TRs!

Yeah, this alone would be really nice.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-11, 20:03:50
Hi guys, I spent some time testing my new workstation. I come from an HP Z820 dual Xeon E5 2643, and the new one clearly outperforms it. For the same render now I spend 1/5 of the time.
In idle the CPU temperatures is between 31°C and 33°C, under heavy load up to 53°C in the worst scenario.
I noticed that sometimes, during a render, after staying stable at 52°C for several minutes, the temperature goes for less than a second to 62°C and than it goes back to 52°C while the CPU load seems to go down instead. Why? Is it normal?
Another thing that I saw is that if in 1 hour render the temperatures doesn't go above the 52°C, during denoising it can go up to 58°C for example, why does it happen? It seems that some tasks are heating more than others under the same CPU usage.

Thanks,
Andrea
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: TomG on 2019-07-11, 20:19:56
In some tasks, the CPU doesn't know for sure what data it will need to fetch from memory next, resulting in a microsecond delay that lets it cool down while that data is fetched once it does know what it needs. In a task like denoising, everything is known as to what comes next, so it can all be prefetched and the CPU never pauses, even for microseconds, so it's temperature goes up as it really is working flat out :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: TomG on 2019-07-11, 20:21:42
(see https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=16722 for full details)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-11, 21:19:35
Hi guys, I spent some time testing my new workstation. I come from an HP Z820 dual Xeon E5 2643, and the new one clearly outperforms it. For the same render now I spend 1/5 of the time.
In idle the CPU temperatures is between 31°C and 33°C, under heavy load up to 53°C in the worst scenario.
I noticed that sometimes, during a render, after staying stable at 52°C for several minutes, the temperature goes for less than a second to 62°C and than it goes back to 52°C while the CPU load seems to go down instead. Why? Is it normal?
Another thing that I saw is that if in 1 hour render the temperatures doesn't go above the 52°C, during denoising it can go up to 58°C for example, why does it happen? It seems that some tasks are heating more than others under the same CPU usage.

Thanks,
Andrea

Denoising seems to utilizing everything to full, I've also noted almost 10C Delta over regular rendering.

This could be a good benchmark, render 8k image with few passes, only for like 30 seconds and then start denoising. It will denoise for 10 minutes and that's a good stability test, maybe even better than Prime95.

(General note, as some people here write the temps with offset and some true, everyone should write from HWiNFO64)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Njen on 2019-07-16, 00:00:56
It's almost like when SGI bankrupted (metaphorically) overnight when PCs came to market. Our CGI progenitors used 80k machines to render bunch of polygons...we are using 6k+ workstations...

SGI's didn't go bankrupt specifically because PC's came on to the market, Windows NT was around for a while, and nothing really changed. But then one day with a well thought out plan by Microsoft, they bought Softimage to specifically port it to Windows NT, with the hopes that everyone else would not want to miss out on the action, and it worked, as soon after everyone else started porting to NT. To top it all off, once Microsoft were satisfied that they had gotten enough of the new emerging CG market to sustain itself, they then sold Softimage, and even made a profit on the sale.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-16, 10:43:42
It's almost like when SGI bankrupted (metaphorically) overnight when PCs came to market. Our CGI progenitors used 80k machines to render bunch of polygons...we are using 6k+ workstations...

SGI's didn't go bankrupt specifically because PC's came on to the market, Windows NT was around for a while, and nothing really changed. But then one day with a well thought out plan by Microsoft, they bought Softimage to specifically port it to Windows NT, with the hopes that everyone else would not want to miss out on the action, and it worked, as soon after everyone else started porting to NT. To top it all off, once Microsoft were satisfied that they had gotten enough of the new emerging CG market to sustain itself, they then sold Softimage, and even made a profit on the sale.

That's interesting and I've never even heard of Softimage in this tale :- ).

But even Wikipedia lists the main reason for decline to be hardware competition and their failed attempts at migration from MIPS/IRIS architecture to similarly expensive and soon to be obsolete Itanium.
Their main competition is listed on hardware level (Dell, HP, IBM) through that decision ( 2006 +/- ), even though software is mentioned to have played an obvious role, Maya is mentioned instead (as Alias/Wavefront).

Why would software be the defining factor if it worked on multiplatform at that point (1996) ? The cost of hardware would still be decisive factor in such situation ? (Regardless of particular software).
Now you could run Alias/Maya at 100k IRIS machine vs 10k x86 PC from Dell.

Even their final death was due to late adoption of Xeons in Super-server market where they were still competing with Itanium. They only lasted 3 years (2006-2009) between bankrupcy protection to final bankrupcy.
Seems to be like company that banked on wrong hardware decisions after their original technology became obsolete. Whatever role software played, it wasn't the primary one.

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Njen on 2019-07-17, 02:06:20
I was talking about specifically in the realm of CG graphics, before Softimage was ported to NT, there was not much on Windows, as the entire industry was at the time still on SGI's. I remember this because I was working in the industry at the time, and when the news of Softimage being ported to NT was reported, almost overnight, most of the major CG houses started to question the move to Windows. Software was very much the driving factor.

[Edit]
I found a post on a forum from 2005 by Jeremy Birn (one of the most prolific lighters from Pixar):
Quote
In the 1990’s, high end work based on commercial 3D software became centered around one pipeline: Model in Alias (that was Alias Studio/Alias Power Animator), Animate in Softimage (that was Softimage Creative Environment later called Softimage|3D), and render in Renderman. All of this was done on SGI workstations.

After Microsoft bought Softimage in 1994 and clearly was going to port Softimage to Windows NT, SGI aquired both Alias Research and its leading competitor Wavefront|TDI, and put them together basically to make a new program that would crush Softimage. It worked. Companies switched from modeling in Alias, then animating in Softimage, to doing both modeling and animation in Maya. Use of Softimage really plunged between 1995 when it was the industry standard animation program and 2000 when it was looking like a has-been and most companies had dumped it for Maya.

Of course, Microsoft’s port of Softimage to Windows NT was successful, and eventually Alias had to port Maya to Windows as well, even while it was owned by SGI. Softimage was sold to Avid, has slowly battled its way back with its own next-generation app, XSI, and is starting to gain market share in the high-end again.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: TomG on 2019-07-17, 14:08:27
Ah how I remember dreaming of one day owning an SGI machine! Thank goodness those days passed :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Njen on 2019-07-18, 02:25:34
I was in an office that converted the unused O2's into mini bar fridges. Very nerdy.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-19, 16:24:56
Ah how I remember dreaming of one day owning an SGI machine! Thank goodness those days passed :)

You would still be paying mortgage :- )
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: TomG on 2019-07-19, 17:57:07
Haha, yes, and kicking myself for it too!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Vlad L on 2019-07-22, 09:49:09
Hi there, I finally managed to read all 33 pages of this thread and get some general overview of what it is to buy a 2990wx workstation
Although, I still don't understand some of the points that folks in this thread may know about basing on their personal build experience.
I'm planning to buy the following workstation

CPU: 2990wx
MB: Gigabyte Aorus extreme (as I look towards GPU render in the future)
RAM:  Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 PC3000Mhz 64GB
SSD: Samsung 500Gb 970 EVO Plus, 2280, M.2, NVMe
PSU: ATX Corsair HX1200, 80 Plus Platinum
Case: Fractal Design Define S2 Blackout, ATX, Midi-Tower
Cooling: Was thinking about some AIO like NZXT Kraken 72 or  EVGA CLC 240 but have doubts

So my main concern is cooling - I don't have any experience in cooling or overclocking. I'm not going to OC this CPU in 3.8-4.2 Ghz range but something like 3.5-3.7 is very desirable (If I can get something like 41 s in corona benchmark that would be cool). If overclock in this range is available via PBO option that would be awesome.
I've read about AIO not covering the whole CPU plate but if I overclock in the range of 3.5-3.7 will it be stable using for example the above mentioned Kraken or EVGA? I've thought about the Silver Arrow or Noctua NH-U14 but I'm in a situation when I have to buy from a certain vendor and they don't have it, besides I've heard that they may block the upper GPU slot or not fit due to high RAM modules (corsair have stupid big LED on top)

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-22, 10:38:50
Everything is sound except the cooling. LPX is low-profile memory so it will not be blocked by air cooling towers, and U14S is quite offset so it doesn't block even quite tall memory these days.

Top GPU is slot is correct though, but it depends on the board. Michal Timko has build Aorus + U14S, maybe he can post quick info or snapshot if the top GPU slot is blocked or not.
I think Noctua lists this info as well on their webpage.

If that would be the case, still buy only TR4 dedicated coolers (Liqtech II, didn't check if others are already on market). It's not about "mild" overclock, those coolers you listed will not overclock it at all and they are bad idea in general, you absolutely do want to cover the heatspreader for 2990WX.
(For 2950/2970 you could get away with any cooler).

My personal suggestion is to get 128 GB right away, it's much more cheaper these days and it might not last again forever. Ondra is cooking some super cool stuff under the hood at the moment but 128GB will always be very welcome. My life is so much easier now that I have 128 in all workstations and nodes.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Vlad L on 2019-07-22, 12:36:59
Thanks for your answer Juraj.
So, is it still better to buy Enermax LiqTech TR4 II 360 (even though they may have this leakage issue)? I've just heard that there is alphacool eisbaer 420 with a mounting plate for TR4 (although it doesn't cover 3.5mm of CPU from two sides as the pump plate is 63х63 and CPU is 52x70) anyone heard of it? From what Juraj said I assume this is still not a very good idea.
I would gladly buy 128 RAM but as always the budget is very tight.
So if to sum it up the best options are either  LiqTech TR4 II 360 or Noctua NH-U14S and Silver Arrow TR4. Is Noctua NH-U14S still better than all AIO except for the Enermax? (Maybe it is a good idea to buy U14s and even if it blocks the top GPU slot I may insert the 1st GPU in the bottom 16xPCIe and when I have the money for the second one I may just buy another cooling system - hope there will be more of them in the future.) 
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-22, 12:57:46
Quote
Is Noctua NH-U14S still better than all AIO except for the Enermax?

Unquestionably.
(There was some attempt by ROG Ryujin but it's not TR4 specific either..no-go).

And there indeed might be other AIO solutions in future when Zen2 Threadrippers come. Well, I guess at least, but by that time, NH-D15 TR4 will also be available.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-23, 17:13:49
Thanks for your answer Juraj.
So, is it still better to buy Enermax LiqTech TR4 II 360 (even though they may have this leakage issue)? I've just heard that there is alphacool eisbaer 420 with a mounting plate for TR4 (although it doesn't cover 3.5mm of CPU from two sides as the pump plate is 63х63 and CPU is 52x70) anyone heard of it? From what Juraj said I assume this is still not a very good idea.
I would gladly buy 128 RAM but as always the budget is very tight.
So if to sum it up the best options are either  LiqTech TR4 II 360 or Noctua NH-U14S and Silver Arrow TR4. Is Noctua NH-U14S still better than all AIO except for the Enermax? (Maybe it is a good idea to buy U14s and even if it blocks the top GPU slot I may insert the 1st GPU in the bottom 16xPCIe and when I have the money for the second one I may just buy another cooling system - hope there will be more of them in the future.)

Hi,I thinlk that the problems with the Enermax LiqTech were in the first release, this is the LiqTech II, just because it has been updated.

Are there still problems with Windows 1903 and Corona Render? Can I update?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Vlad L on 2019-07-23, 18:48:18
I've checked several internet shops for user reviews and they are mostly negative for Enermax Liqtech II as well. I decided not to risk.
I've checked U14s specs and its heat spread is only 180 W according to the specs. However Noctua says it is compatiable with 2990 even with a medium overclock. I think I will give it a try. Well at least michaltimko has the same cooling and MB and he was able to get 41 s at benchmark - that is more than enough for me.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-26, 09:16:56
I've checked several internet shops for user reviews and they are mostly negative for Enermax Liqtech II as well. I decided not to risk.
I've checked U14s specs and its heat spread is only 180 W according to the specs. However Noctua says it is compatiable with 2990 even with a medium overclock. I think I will give it a try. Well at least michaltimko has the same cooling and MB and he was able to get 41 s at benchmark - that is more than enough for me.

Scared of your words I wrote to the customer service od Enermax, I told them that I don't really want to risk and if I had to change it for security. They asked me the serial, than they told me that my serial isn't affected by any problems. Hope their are right!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-07-30, 03:20:53
Hi guys,

Unfortunately I'm the next guy who's thinking about new workstation so my two cents here:

-3dsmax 2016 (no plans for upgrade)
-overclocking is not my cup of tea (not a tech guy so to speak) actually I've never built a PC, so doing it by myself is a big concern.
-corona is priority but I'd like to give fstorm a try some time.
-I need new rig quite desperately but I can wait for new chips if it's worth it.

-2990WX
-MSI MEG (Asus Zenith ALPHA is bit too pricy)
-Silver Arrow TR4 or Noctua UH14 TR4
-Corsair RM850X 850W or SeaSonic PRIME Gold 1300W
-Corsair Vengeance LPX, DDR4, 16 GB,2933MHz, CL16   (64GB total but obviously I prefer 128)
-Plextor 1Tb PCIe Gen3 x4 NVMe 2280 M9Pe(Y)
-WD 6TB 7200. 256MB Red Pro NAS
-GPU is not my priority if I can say that but seriously no idea which one to choose. Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 2060 OC 6GB GDDR6 (192 Bit), 2xHDMI, 2xDP, BOX  or MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti GAMING X 11GB GDDR5X? (expected 3dsmax, substance painter viewport efficiency)
-Fractal Design Define R6
-win 10 Pro

What do you think?
I'm open for any suggestions

cheers
TH

PS: since I'm not a tech guy I need someone to build machine for me, do you suggest to buy all parts and let the guy assemble it?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-30, 18:02:41

-2990WX
-MSI MEG (Asus Zenith ALPHA is bit too pricy)
-Silver Arrow TR4 or Noctua UH14 TR4
-Corsair RM850X 850W or SeaSonic PRIME Gold 1300W
-Corsair Vengeance LPX, DDR4, 16 GB,2933MHz, CL16   (64GB total but obviously I prefer 128)
-Plextor 1Tb PCIe Gen3 x4 NVMe 2280 M9Pe(Y)
-WD 6TB 7200. 256MB Red Pro NAS
-GPU is not my priority if I can say that but seriously no idea which one to choose. Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 2060 OC 6GB GDDR6 (192 Bit), 2xHDMI, 2xDP, BOX  or MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti GAMING X 11GB GDDR5X? (expected 3dsmax, substance painter viewport efficiency)
-Fractal Design Define R6
-win 10 Pro

PS: since I'm not a tech guy I need someone to build machine for me, do you suggest to buy all parts and let the guy assemble it?

Hey man,

Everything good, all options would work. I'll just write my personal notes on it. Regarding building, yup, you can just hire some local student to help you build it for few bucks, there are plenty enthusiasts who enjoy doing it. But you can also do it yourself after one youtube tutorial, the good stuff with Threadriper is that it's stupid-proof, it's impossible to hurt the CPU and the process of mounting it is very easy because there are brackets.

From tests it looks like Silver Arrow isn't actually better then UH14S despite having more heatpipes and mass. So just choose based on sympathy I guess, I had higher hopes for this cooler. In Q1 2020 NH-D15 TR4 and that will be finally worthy cooler.

For PSU, these are two very different choises:

Corsair RM850X is PSU made by ChannelWell (CWT), this is big OEM maker that makes quality PSUs for most brands. The highest quality Corsairs use mostly Seasonic as OEM. Corsair doesn't build their own PSU, only puts brand sticker on it.
There is nothing wrong with it, it just puzzles me sometimes why people think it adds additional Quality Control or something. It doesn't.
RM-Series is also budget series, although not super cheap. The contender against it is Evga G3, or Seasonic FOCUS Gold.

Seasonic PRIME, is on whole another level, it's different quality tier, it's basically the best you can get. Prime level conteder is Corsair AX series.

I always go for the best when it comes to 24/7 workstation with beefy CPU & GPU. So either Seasonic Prime, or Corsair AX (which is also Seasonic for most models). Basically you never go wrong with Seasonic.
Gold level efficiency is good enough, no need for Platinum or Titanium. Here is important to say that build quality (capacitators,etc..) are more important than efficiency. So Seasonic PRIME Gold, is better than Seasonic Focus Platinum.

How much watts you need depend on how many GPUs you plan to add in future, overclocking and if you want the PSU to stay in passive/silent regime when not rendering.
You actually only need 750W PSU for 2990WX for top-grade GPU (250W + 300W when both run 100perc. rest of the system including PCI-e SSDs will still fit.
The reason why I always go for 1000W+ is so passive regime when not rendering, ie. when the load on your PSU is less than 50perc., it will turn off the fan. This is nice feature even if you don't plan to use two GPUs.

When buying memory, try to buy one 64GB package (4x16GB). When you add another it will still work fine. But if you buy more fragmented, you could run into issues. Even with latest AGESA updates, Threadripper is picky by nature. No need to test your luck.

Regarding waiting for other CPU, there are only two options:

If you already have good render farm and don't need absolute multi-core performance, Ryzen 3950X might be good choice. It can even take 128GB memory because last month 32GB DIMMs became available in mainstream market (non-ECC), but they aren't fast though.. (2666 CL19 for 128GB kit, that's not good enough for Ryzen).
Otherwise next Threadrippers will probably arrive late Q4/2019 or maybe even Q1/2020. That can be long waiting.

Regarding GPU, if you want brand-new RTX, get the cheapest one with 8GB memory, I lost count which one is it right now with billion models available. The memory is lot more important for viewport than raw performance. Esp. if you plan using Optix Denoiser  in IR.
I still believe second-hand cheaply bought 1080ti 11GB is the best option, but I have huge scenes and I want to see all textures in 4-8k in my viewport, have multiple Photoshops open,etc..
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-07-30, 21:15:46
Hey Juraj

First of all huge thanks for your reply, really appreciate it!!


When it comes to waiting for new CPU's.... well, technically i could wait but I really need more efficient/powerfull machine. My good old "workstation" in fact is old and quite obsolete. Upgrading makes absolutely no sense at the moment, so as you mentioned I've got two options:  wait couple months kicking myself (best case scenario) or build new WS as fast as possible (september most likely). The truth is I'm not gonna be able to stretch my budget and buy CPU twice as expensive as 2990WX so the question is what can we expect from new chips? For example the same core count, comparable price but less power consumption? Any other possible benefits? 3 gen threadrippers mean totally new architecture so as I presume new socket?

COOLING - brand name doesn't matter to me so probably I'll go with Noctua UH14S

PSU - For now one GPU will do but in the future who knows, so Seasonic, bottom line.

RAM - I consider buying 64GB pack for start and expand it to 128 later. Do I need to buy exactly the same brand for extra 64GB pack? It smells like trouble, maybe buying whole 128GB set is wiser decision?

GPU - I've never bought any used gpu in my life but if you say so, maybe it's the way to go? Any particulair brand to avoid? Should I look for GPU's still on warranty? Lot of CGI companies sell their "old" gpu's but I wonder if they are still ok after years of 24/7 work.

TH
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-31, 00:03:54
Threadrippers 3 are long way ahead and judging by the situation with Ryzen boards (X570), Threadrippers will come with similiar price hike. Beefy VRM + PCI 4.0 (possibly 5.0), the boards for them will likely cost lot more than MSI MEG or Asus Alpha. I would say 700-800 Euro. So I believe the whole thing will be more expensive now that even Ryzen is entrenching HEDT territory with 3950X model.

That said, Ryzen 9 3950X will come in September and will cost 1/3 of what 2990WX cost, and will be probably be less than 1/3 slower in multithreadring (in fact I expect even better, maybe 50 seconds result in Corona Benchmark). And it will be much better in single-thread due to architecture changes and much higher boost clock.
But it's dual-channel 4-dimm platform, so you have to buy those 32GB Dimms. (There is one one X570 WS board from Asus that takes ECC kits, but those don't come in high-speed modules either).

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14658/corsair-unveils-32-gb-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-dimms-64-gb-128-gb-dualchannel-kits

For some reason the the 128GB package (4x32) is only 2666 CL18 at 1.2V, but 64GB package is available in 3000 CL20 1.35V. These just came onto market, so I haven't seen anyone test it, but I wonder if one of the X570 boards with bigger VRMs would be able to handle two of those 64GB packages at 3000 CL20 in 128GB Configuration. Maybe worth sending email to Samsung what they think ?

You technically don't need the same brand but it's risk. Even different generations/revisions of the same memory can be issue for Ryzen/Threadripper. Also right now the memory is at it's cheapest almost, you can get 2x64GB LPX kits for <650Euro Total. I paid lot more than than last October for half that amount :- ).

The GPU thing...well used market is always risk. Some GPUs that were used for mining are actually pretty safe as they were run on lower voltage but you never know.
You can also go for RTX 2070 "Regular" or "Super", which has 8GB Vram.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-07-31, 01:08:14
Interesting things you write about Ryzen9 3950X indeed, and big thanks for overheating my brain in the middle of the night ;)

It seems new threadrippers + MOBo's will be expensive (hence, too expensive for my budget) so for now i guess it's not the direction I'm heading.  I know it's hard nut to crack but what would you do in my situation? seriously 2990wx or 3950X with 64GB? Is PCIe4 worth waiting, will I utilize it's all potential? 3950X sounds tempting but still 2990 means more cores = shorter render times.

RTX 2070 "super" looks good, and the price is fine.

You mentioned water cooling before, is there any reasonable solution other than custom made visibly better than Noctua UH14S?
Coolant + expensive parts it's no go zone for me anyway, but I had to ask.
 
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-31, 08:36:02
Hi guys, small OT: in the BIOS I have the memory frequency set to auto but theoretically RAM goes at 2133Mhz (as you can see from the picture). Should I force it to 3000Mhz? I have the Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz. Thanks.

P.S.: I have two 32GB (2x16GB) kits, 64GB overall.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-31, 12:12:46
Interesting things you write about Ryzen9 3950X indeed, and big thanks for overheating my brain in the middle of the night ;)

It seems new threadrippers + MOBo's will be expensive (hence, too expensive for my budget) so for now i guess it's not the direction I'm heading.  I know it's hard nut to crack but what would you do in my situation? seriously 2990wx or 3950X with 64GB? Is PCIe4 worth waiting, will I utilize it's all potential? 3950X sounds tempting but still 2990 means more cores = shorter render times.

RTX 2070 "super" looks good, and the price is fine.

You mentioned water cooling before, is there any reasonable solution other than custom made visibly better than Noctua UH14S?
Coolant + expensive parts it's no go zone for me anyway, but I had to ask.

I will start with the easiest answers first :- )

Custom loop is indeed expensive, mine costed 900 Euro (with fans) and just two weeks ago I had to completely rebuild this (!!), not just take it apart...but to take all the individual parts apart as well. Because there was ton of algae everywhere, everything was green!
So much for me trusting EKWB that the parts are "ready to use" (without cleaning fully).

Aftermarket ready to use solution is only Thermaltake LiqTech II 360. The latest revision (of this second "II" generation, so fourth revision in total since it came to market 2 years ago) is supposedly safe and it is lot more powerful than Noctua U14S ( less than 10C temperture delta when normalized to same accoustic performance I would say).
But the bad taste remains, the reputation was set and.. you just have to trust it. Costs 2x more than Noctua which is good price for its performance. I don't think there is risk the latest one will leak, but there is chance you will have to warranty it after year because of internal build-up of (rust/algae/..). No one can tell.

Ryzen 3950X vs 2990WX. Until early tests come in, it's hard to tell. It might definitely be a better buy, at least for those who will always only need 64GB total memory, since you can get 4x16 2933-3200MHz CL14-CL15. It's hard to tell how it will perform with those 32GB DIMMs at 128GB configuration, and if anyone will test it so you won't have to be guinea pig.
(It was infuriating to me when all the testers tested 2990WX with 32GB Kits, sorry this is not for gaming what are you doing guys...)

Regarding PCI 4.0, those are completely useless for now and for near future as well. You would still have to buy X570 instead of X470 because of better VRMs. The best X470 boards have 6+2 (CPU + Memory) Phases, while X570 will come with 14+ Phases, just like the best boards for 2990WX (MEG/Alpha). All the Ryzens Gen3 are ok with X470, but I would say 3950X will definitely need the VRM. It's 105W on base clock only, it will definitely be 180+ W in full turbo.

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-31, 12:35:34
Hi guys, small OT: in the BIOS I have the memory frequency set to auto but theoretically RAM goes at 2133Mhz (as you can see from the picture). Should I force it to 3000Mhz? I have the Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz. Thanks.

P.S.: I have two 32GB (2x16GB) kits, 64GB overall.

You can try loading XMP profile first and see if it's stable. Usually there are two profiles (XMP1 & XMP2, the second being usually faster). XMP will set frequency, timings but also lot of other stuff, if that proves problematic, you can set timings and frequency manually.

Set it to 2933, not 3000. Both will work but the first is native multiplier for Ryzen.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-31, 15:02:35
Hi guys, small OT: in the BIOS I have the memory frequency set to auto but theoretically RAM goes at 2133Mhz (as you can see from the picture). Should I force it to 3000Mhz? I have the Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz. Thanks.

P.S.: I have two 32GB (2x16GB) kits, 64GB overall.

You can try loading XMP profile first and see if it's stable. Usually there are two profiles (XMP1 & XMP2, the second being usually faster). XMP will set frequency, timings but also lot of other stuff, if that proves problematic, you can set timings and frequency manually.

Set it to 2933, not 3000. Both will work but the first is native multiplier for Ryzen.

Thanks,
there's no way to set any XMP profile in BIOS...if I set only the frequency to 2933Mhz?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-31, 15:24:45
Hi guys, small OT: in the BIOS I have the memory frequency set to auto but theoretically RAM goes at 2133Mhz (as you can see from the picture). Should I force it to 3000Mhz? I have the Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz. Thanks.

P.S.: I have two 32GB (2x16GB) kits, 64GB overall.

You can try loading XMP profile first and see if it's stable. Usually there are two profiles (XMP1 & XMP2, the second being usually faster). XMP will set frequency, timings but also lot of other stuff, if that proves problematic, you can set timings and frequency manually.

Set it to 2933, not 3000. Both will work but the first is native multiplier for Ryzen.

Thanks,
there's no way to set any XMP profile in BIOS...if I set only the frequency to 2933Mhz?

Of course there is, it's usually right on the front page, in EZ mode.

But you can set it manually yes, just set the timings as well.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: cjwidd on 2019-07-31, 17:28:58
I have reviewed the majority of this thread as I prepare a new PC build for my home workstation - thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts.

If possible, I would like to assemble new and older parts to save some money, please see below:

NEW
CPU: AMD Threadripper 2950X 3.5 GHz 16-Core Processor            
CPU COOLER: Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler            
MOTHERBOARD: Asus ROG ZENITH EXTREME ALPHA EATX TR4
MEMORY: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
PSU: SeaSonic PRIME Gold 1300 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

OLD
CASE: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case
GPU: Asus GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB Video Card
CASE FANS: Noctua NF-F12 PWM 54.97 CFM 120 mm Fan

1. Are there any obvious, outstanding issues with this build?
2. The 2990WX is out of my price range at the moment, but is there a reason to upgrade to the 2970wx vs. the 2950x? As I understand it, the 2970wx inherits some of the issues from the 2990wx without improving significantly above the 2950x(?)
3. What is the prevailing issue with Threadripper builds and Corona? I have seen multiple reports of less than satisfied customers reporting Corona benchmarks for Threadripper builds; it seems the issue surrounds total available RAM and / or PSU.

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-07-31, 18:06:44
I would say the build is good.

My thoughts on 2950X vs 2970WX vs 2990WX:

2950X right now is the weakest of the CPU in multithreading, but has the same single-core performance for workstation tasks like viewport or Photoshop, and can actually even be faster here than 2970WX/2990WX.
It's also weaker than the upcoming 16-core Ryzen9 3950X. But there are still reasons to go for weaker Threadripper when stronger Ryzen is available:

- You want to upgrade to Threadripper 3xxxx series when they come. With powerful board like MEG or Alpha, you will be able to support the upcoming 32core "3990WX" (I don't know how they will call it) which will have better architecture and stronger single-core performance than 2990WX, potentially more threads per physical core (rumors). The boards will probably won't be powerful enough for any potential 48/64c versions if such would come, as that will require even more than 16 phases. (28core i9 is good example, the crazy boards have 28 phases, ridiculous but necessary).
- You want 128 GB (8x16) memory. As I wrote above, Ryzen can take 128 GB as well, but only in slower 32GB modules right now on market.
- You could potentially go for even cheaper 1950X if you want to upgrade to 3xxx series in Q4/2019/Q1/2020.

If you don't plan to ever upgrading to 2990WX/3xxx series, than you don't need MEG/Alpha type of boards and can by any cheap <200 Euro board for x399. Even tiny mATX and build yourself a portable PC :- ).

"Corona issues":
- Corona is lot more memory bandwidth demanding than any other synthetic benchmarks on market. Hence the difference between CinebenchR15 score and Corona results. CinebenchR20 is better, but still doesn't utilize much of the memory bandwidth.
- Lot of people bought slow memory or didn't set the memory to correct speed in bios. Threadripper absolutely needs 2933MHz (CL14-CL16). It could potentially benefit little bit from 3200 MHz but this speed is just not stable in 128 GB configuration, and questionably in 64GB configuration when rendering something intensive (like denoising in Corona).
- The whole architecture due to infinity fabric seems to have some issues to reach its true potential. This isn't anything major, the CPUs still kick major ass due to their price but... Corona simply works faster on Intel at the moment ("Conspiracy" = It's on Intel's framework so, but maybe it's not related at all :- ).
- We can wait to see how this behave with Zen2 when someone buys them for Corona. The architecture has improved.


- Maybe, just maybe, X599 platform for Threadrippers 3xxx will feature 8-channel ? Who knows, that would solve some issues with Corona rendering.

Threadripper is still the best choice as 2990WX beats i9 7980XE/9980XE (I have both) and the only Intel which is faster is the crazy expensive 28-core W3175X and even that is very debatable as the chip is so power hungry it absolutely needs water cooling. And that is outside the fact that the chip sells for 3499 Euro, the boards cost 1799 Euro and it requires expensive 6-channel memory kits and either 500 Euro AIO custom made by Asetec, or 900 Euro custom loop like I did for my PCs. So the whole thing is 2-3x more expensive for  what 5 perc. better ?

Here is how they compare for those interested:

2990WX @ 4.1 GHz (maximum non-LN2 overclock), roughly 600W output. 34 Seconds in Benchmark.
3175X @ 4.5 GHz (maximum non-LN2 overclock) roughly 1200+ (!!!!) W Output. 30-32 Seconds. The Aquarium chiller than Intel used to cool their exhibition PC had 1600W cooling capacity. This shit is impossible to use under table.

The crazy Intel is 10perc. faster in Corona (and less than 5perc. in everything else) only when you massively overclock it to point where it eats double the juice and outputs 3 times the heat.

It's not contender. 2990WX might not live up to dreamy potential but it still absolutely kicks Intel ass to curb. It's not even comparable for anyone who is not shilling for Intel. 3 times the heat, 3 times the price. So much for fight. Long live the Threadripper :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: engiu on 2019-07-31, 18:46:16
Hi guys, small OT: in the BIOS I have the memory frequency set to auto but theoretically RAM goes at 2133Mhz (as you can see from the picture). Should I force it to 3000Mhz? I have the Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz. Thanks.

P.S.: I have two 32GB (2x16GB) kits, 64GB overall.

You can try loading XMP profile first and see if it's stable. Usually there are two profiles (XMP1 & XMP2, the second being usually faster). XMP will set frequency, timings but also lot of other stuff, if that proves problematic, you can set timings and frequency manually.

Set it to 2933, not 3000. Both will work but the first is native multiplier for Ryzen.

Thanks,
there's no way to set any XMP profile in BIOS...if I set only the frequency to 2933Mhz?

Of course there is, it's usually right on the front page, in EZ mode.

But you can set it manually yes, just set the timings as well.

Found it! Thanks, now they're working at the right speed!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-07-31, 21:59:16
Interesting things you write about Ryzen9 3950X indeed, and big thanks for overheating my brain in the middle of the night ;)

It seems new threadrippers + MOBo's will be expensive (hence, too expensive for my budget) so for now i guess it's not the direction I'm heading.  I know it's hard nut to crack but what would you do in my situation? seriously 2990wx or 3950X with 64GB? Is PCIe4 worth waiting, will I utilize it's all potential? 3950X sounds tempting but still 2990 means more cores = shorter render times.

RTX 2070 "super" looks good, and the price is fine.

You mentioned water cooling before, is there any reasonable solution other than custom made visibly better than Noctua UH14S?
Coolant + expensive parts it's no go zone for me anyway, but I had to ask.

I will start with the easiest answers first :- )

Custom loop is indeed expensive, mine costed 900 Euro (with fans) and just two weeks ago I had to completely rebuild this (!!), not just take it apart...but to take all the individual parts apart as well. Because there was ton of algae everywhere, everything was green!
So much for me trusting EKWB that the parts are "ready to use" (without cleaning fully).

Aftermarket ready to use solution is only Thermaltake LiqTech II 360. The latest revision (of this second "II" generation, so fourth revision in total since it came to market 2 years ago) is supposedly safe and it is lot more powerful than Noctua U14S ( less than 10C temperture delta when normalized to same accoustic performance I would say).
But the bad taste remains, the reputation was set and.. you just have to trust it. Costs 2x more than Noctua which is good price for its performance. I don't think there is risk the latest one will leak, but there is chance you will have to warranty it after year because of internal build-up of (rust/algae/..). No one can tell.

Ryzen 3950X vs 2990WX. Until early tests come in, it's hard to tell. It might definitely be a better buy, at least for those who will always only need 64GB total memory, since you can get 4x16 2933-3200MHz CL14-CL15. It's hard to tell how it will perform with those 32GB DIMMs at 128GB configuration, and if anyone will test it so you won't have to be guinea pig.
(It was infuriating to me when all the testers tested 2990WX with 32GB Kits, sorry this is not for gaming what are you doing guys...)

Regarding PCI 4.0, those are completely useless for now and for near future as well. You would still have to buy X570 instead of X470 because of better VRMs. The best X470 boards have 6+2 (CPU + Memory) Phases, while X570 will come with 14+ Phases, just like the best boards for 2990WX (MEG/Alpha). All the Ryzens Gen3 are ok with X470, but I would say 3950X will definitely need the VRM. It's 105W on base clock only, it will definitely be 180+ W in full turbo.



Geeeez, I sympathize with you man. It Sounds like joke but not funny one. Its a shame you pay 900 euros for premium AiO and you get Baltic sea instead.


Anyway, the balance tips to 2990WX + 128 GB for now. I really want to get rid of constant worry "do I have enough ram for this or that".
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: cjwidd on 2019-08-01, 01:36:59
Thank you so much Juraj, as always, I really appreciate your help
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Vlad L on 2019-08-01, 06:19:37
I don't know if it is still reasonable to buy 2950x as 3900x is only a bit weaker in corona benchmark being twice cheaper and not demanding a more expensive MB and cooling and of course with a higher single core perfomance and I suppose better OC capacity. Only, as Juraj said, in order to upgrade it with less expense in the future. One more advantage of the threadrippers is 64 pci lanes but it matters only if you're going to build a multi-GPU build in the future (looking at these real-time videos of UE4 RTX interiors you may want to get one)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-01, 11:28:00
I would not buy 3900X unless money was very strong concern. Upgrading in future to 16-core, which I believe will be the highest core amount Ryzen for next two years at least, would not make sense financially and it's still just 12-core.
It is on par with 16-core Threadrippers, but those can be upgraded up to 32-core versions (2990WX and "3990WX" or what it's going to be called) with current board on markets.

In my opinion it's either 3950X in September, 1950/2950X if you plan to upgrade the CPU later, or 2990WX.
I would decided based on memory and upgradability.

The PCI lanes don't really matter for GPU computing either, they don't send much data through, you can run them at 4x lanes and your Vray-GPU or F-Storm score will not change.
NVLink (if buying 2080/2080ti) is lot more important for GPU renderers that support the feature.

And since NVLink is only 2-card connection, both AM4 and TR4 platforms will do equally well. TR4 offers quad-GPU setup, but because MEG and Alpha have bigger VRMs on top, they don't have space for dual quad-slots so 4-Gpus in NVLink is impossible on all but Aorus board.
This will not change in future, as the only way how to get 4 PCI dual-slots and big VRM is to get board that is even bigger than E-ATX, i.e EEB formats like ROG DOMINUS for W-3175X.

3950X will paradoxically require 300 +/- Euro board out of it as well, and same strong Noctua Tower, so MB + Cooling costs are the same as Threadripper (MEG is only 400 Euro board right now).

I have seen lot of reviews for 3900X, the current Zen2 Ryzens are not overclockable. The boosts are already as high as the bins allowed. The CPU will be as fast as the one you get.
And truth be told, I think the same of 2970WX/2950WX, the PBO is only worth it for mildly faster renderings if you don't have farm but single-core is already at its highest regardless (It will not go higher than 4.1 GHz, that's where the architecture limit  lies).

And of course, fixed-core multiplier is bullshit. 3.5 GHz all-core & 4.1GHz single-core is MUCH better than 3.8 GHz for both. 5-10 perc. faster renderings are not worth sacrificing Workstation performance. Workstation needs to be responsive, not provide little bit more rendering speed.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-01, 11:52:09
Small correction Juraj, PCI-E lanes can matter for different reasons.

1) There is a noticeable speed difference when working with x4 or x8. It isn't a make it or break it type of a thing but if I recall correctly Puget Systems did some tests and it gets to ~10% difference. It also depends on how big the scene is and how big of a VRAM pool you have (24GB will need more time to fill than say 4GB - Something I don't recall Puget taking into the account).

There is a negligable difference between x8 and x16 though - at least on consumer cards.

That being said, with PCI-E 4.0 the PCI-E 3.0 x8 becomes PCI-E 4.0 x4 so there is that I guess. <- Fun sentence.

2) You can technically get 2 x 2 NVLink going but remember, for NVLink to be enabled on consumer cards you need to enable SLI. To enable four way SLI though you'll need a supported motherboard and for SLI you need at least PCI-E 3.0 x8 on each slot. Even then though you'll need to do a little headless GPU magic to get NVLink going on 4 cards.

Now I'm not sure if you really need that SLI certification for 4-Way SLI but I guess I'd trust Nvidia that they've artificially locked it like that.

This doesn't apply to current TR motherboards as much as it does to dual socket Epyc / Xeon systems because those usually have like 4-8 PCI-E slots with no SLI certifications but can support at least x8 even when all are populated.

Hope I'm making sense here :)

(Puget link: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-2080-Ti-PCI-Express-Lane-Scaling-in-OctaneRender-and-Redshift-1259/)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-01, 11:57:06
Are you kidding me, you seriously nitpick for this ? Let's look at this graph shall we ;- )

(https://www.pugetsystems.com/pic_disp.php?id=50752)

1 PERCENT. Everything I said absolutely stands. Where did you see 10perc., when comparing Redshift 1 Lane vs 16 Lanes ? That's such unrealistic scenario.

Whatever...you said your "achtually", I hope it was useful for someone. I am back to work. I guess I will need to write 10 disclaimers that I don't mean everything literally and that I write shortcuts for practical meaning.

Quote
2) You can technically get 2 x 2 NVLink going but remember,

And I didn't say anything regarding to this. I mentioned it being 2-card link as restricting factor in motherboard layout. There is no X570 & X399 board that has both strong VRM and 4 dual PCI-e slots, because such layout is physically impossible.
And how it will likewise won't change for x599.
In fact I mentioned Aorus as outlier which can get two NV-Links running in theory, so I never alluded that you can't use multiple NV-Links, whatever the conditions of their use are.

So for mainstream users (and people in this thread are debating Ryzens/Threadrippers and GTX/RTX cards), 4x2080ti Layout with strong CPU is much harder to get going than it was for previous gen CPUs and 4x1080ti. So I wouldn't worry much about MB choice, and just live with fact that two strong RTX cards in NVLink will be best choice in workstation unless you're on server platform.

For practical reasons, CGI artist absolutely doesn't need to care about PCI-lanes on AM4 vs TR4, whether he is using GPU rendering or not.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-01, 12:11:12
Sir dude, I didn't want to ruffle any feathers here at all, I merely pointed out that there is an ongoing discourse about the x4 - x8 - x16 scaling especially with heavier scenes and that its not quite as trivial - Especially so if you bring NVLink into the debate.

Not sure if its this article or another but one of them also states that the Octane scenes are small and easy to render - hence it _probably_ doesn't scale as much. The Redshift scene is bigger and as such a more realistic representation if you are working with non trivial scenes size wise. The difference there between x4 and x16 is about 9% (without the load times).

That being said one could say we are looking at a non-production scene still because it is designed to fit into common gpus out there.

They also do not take into the account the load times. Say you have a VRAM pool of 11GB that you want to fill up on an x4 connection - Extra differences there.

All that being said you then need to take into the account the whole NVLink thing - if you plan on using it at all. There is a strong chance that with x4 you just won't be able to run NVLink on that second pair.

Like, if you are serious about GPU rendering so much that you'll buy 4 GPUs, I personally would make sure they try running at x8 at least. Depends on the usage case but really the point of my post was to not totally dismiss the impact of PCI-E lane speeds.

Hopefully this back and forth shed some light for people so that they can come to their own conclusions with a little bit more information. I really don't see a problem here personally.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: cjwidd on 2019-08-01, 15:20:07
I'm sorry, naive (dumb) question, but the last several comments (above) have mentioned upgrading CPUs. I was under the impression that upgrading CPUs is a cumbersome prospect, i.e. not as simple as swapping a video card because CPUs have to be mounted with thermal paste, etc.

Is this what is implied when someone mentions upgrading to 2990WX/3xxx series?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-08-01, 18:44:16
I keep seeing this a lot with how Ryzen 3000 is a lot cheaper than Threadripper. The Threadripper platform isn't new, 1st gen cpus are on sale all the time and even 2nd gen ones you can snag for a good price if you keep an eye out. I just paid the same price as a 3900x for a 2950x. The x399 Taichi i picked up for $200 a few months back (from what ive seen the x570 boards in this price range are just meh). Last month the 2770wx was on sale at microcenter for $700 (cheaper than the 3950x will be). Even the Mobos Juraj recommends have $100-300 off sales.

With Threadripper you have room to upgrade to a wider selection of cpus. With Ryzen 3000, you'll have the 3950x later this year. Maybe Zen 2+ might add a few cores. I think a safe assumption that Threadripper 3000 will start with 24-36 cores and if it has the same IPC increase that Ryzen 2000 to 3000 has, even without a core count upgrade, 24-36 core Threadrippers will be extremely nice to have.

The 1950x is a really good bargain right now as it has dropped down to $330-$399 a few times lately. With a higher end x399 board you will still have plenty of room to grow. As Juraj said you will probably need one of the better boards to run anything that Threadripper 3 will offer though.

Threadripper absolutely needs 2933MHz (CL14-CL16).

A question about RAM i've been looking for 4x16 kits (64gb) and everything in the CL 14-15 range is either sold out or $1000. I currently have CL16 32GB kit in and the same memory is on sale for $174. Is CL14-15 worth it for the large price increase?  I used the DRAM calculator and it did increase my Cinebench R20 score fairly well, but only shaved off a couple seconds on the Corona Bench.

The RTX 2060 Super has 8GBs for VRAM as well. The only RTX card that doesnt have 8GB of Vram or more is the normal RTX 2060.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: maru on 2019-08-05, 10:06:13
If anyone is interested, Threadripper prices dropped again. You can now get an 1920x for as low as ~250 € - https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B074CBJHCT
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-08-05, 11:37:08
If anyone is interested, Threadripper prices dropped again. You can now get an 1920x for as low as ~250 € - https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B074CBJHCT

With the 1950x being priced so low too its actually a fairly compelling reason to upgrade given you could have a 16 core machine complete from the ground up for sub £1500.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-05, 18:30:47

Is CL14-15 worth it for the large price increase?


If the memory is expensive, it's never worth it. And 64GB CL15 kit, still has to be run at CL16 if the compatibility proves to be problematic, and 100perc. CL16 if it's 128GB kit from identical modules. Actual experience of mine.

But is it so expensive where you are ? I've bought Corsair LPX 64(4x16) 3000 CL15 for 300 Euro recently (final price with VAT from Amazon.de), and I've already seen few sellings for 250 Euros. 1000 ? Are you looking at obscure b-die G-Skill sets ?


I'm sorry, naive (dumb) question, but the last several comments (above) have mentioned upgrading CPUs. I was under the impression that upgrading CPUs is a cumbersome prospect, i.e. not as simple as swapping a video card because CPUs have to be mounted with thermal paste, etc.

Is this what is implied when someone mentions upgrading to 2990WX/3xxx series?

You have to un-mount Cooler, remove CPU, put new CPU in, apply paste, attach cooler again but that's it :- ). That's reasonably easy, can be done under 5 minutes with some practice.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-08-05, 21:36:27

If the memory is expensive, it's never worth it. And 64GB CL15 kit, still has to be run at CL16 if the compatibility proves to be problematic, and 100perc. CL16 if it's 128GB kit from identical modules. Actual experience of mine.

But is it so expensive where you are ? I've bought Corsair LPX 64(4x16) 3000 CL15 for 300 Euro recently (final price with VAT from Amazon.de), and I've already seen few sellings for 250 Euros. 1000 ? Are you looking at obscure b-die G-Skill sets ?

I'm in the US and just the price diferences on memory for minor differences like RGB and no RGB can be up to $80
The kit you mention CL15 3000 (Corsair RGB one) is around $329. Its the CL14 3200 kits that are way up there in price 700+.
Looks like a choice between 2.

CORSAIR Vengeance 3000 CL15  64(4x16) = $329
or
G.SKILL TridentZ 3200 CL15 64(4x16) = $456

I don't imagine the 200mhz speed is worth the price difference. Both are RGB kits as well =/
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-05, 21:53:00
I think the chance you will be able to run 3200 @CL15 for 4x16GB is very small. Maybe you can make it stable, maybe not, not worth the hassle. Just get 3000.

I use 2x64B Corsair RBG Pro on Veronika's 2990WX. Both 3000 CL15. In 128GB Configuration, it's stable only on CL16, otherwise it will blue-screen during intensive tasks in Corona. Exactly as advertised.
I know the guys like 1Usmus on overclockers.co.uk run everything much tigher but they just run syntetic tests all day, zero intensive work.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: philipb on 2019-08-06, 21:23:30
Been a while since i popped in for a read... Ill have to see what has been going on.

Just wanted to report that my Enermax TR4 360 AIO (gen 2-rev 1?) crapped out after about 7-8 months. So, i guess as expected.

Idle temps went from 35C to 57C. Both fans working fine so must be a pump/corrosion/gunk issue as has been reported many times.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-07, 11:51:22
Been a while since i popped in for a read... Ill have to see what has been going on.

Just wanted to report that my Enermax TR4 360 AIO (gen 2-rev 1?) crapped out after about 7-8 months. So, i guess as expected.

Idle temps went from 35C to 57C. Both fans working fine so must be a pump/corrosion/gunk issue as has been reported many times.

Do you have the RGB ('II' Mark model, revision is never written, only based on serial code) version ?

Ah jeez, this absolutely sucks. Still better than leaking but waiting for warranty and replacement..

I am lucky I have a friend who does service to my custom loops, and I can tell you it took two full days (16 hours +/-) to completely disasemble and clean everything, put it back, test it. So Full loop is not for those with weak stomach either.

At this point I just believe no water belongs to serious workstation if you don't need absolute silence. Just get U14S TR4, and when in few months D15 TR4 comes to market, sell the U14, replace, and live happily after. D15 and good airflow will be more than enough for Zen2 CPUs.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: philipb on 2019-08-07, 18:42:26

Yes, its the MKII RGB version. Worked great at first. When it was working well I was very impressed with the performance. It got excellent results with both Vray and Corona bench.

I'm dealing with Enermax RMA in north america and they are sending out a replacement. Hopefully they have resolved the issue.



Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-08, 14:13:02
Only slightly related to the Threadripper series but the new Zen 2 Epyc CPUs are out and they are something else for... pretty much everything. AMD really did something special here.

Phoronix (Linux) rendering tests -> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-epyc-7502-7742&num=7
Anandtech Early Review -> https://www.anandtech.com/show/14694/amd-rome-epyc-2nd-gen/15

[SPOILER] If I may quote Anandtech's conclusion "At the high end with socketed x86 CPUs, AMD offers you up to 50 to 100% higher performance while offering a 40% lower price".

Now let's think about how a potential 64 Threadripper would perform :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-08, 14:22:09
(https://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1908072-AS-EPYC7472R73&sha=99cb235&p=2)

That is epic indeed.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-08-14, 20:04:32
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-3000-castle-peak-32-core-cpu,40151.html (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-3000-castle-peak-32-core-cpu,40151.html)

Hopefully this means we will start seeing some more info leak out about Threadripper 3000 and get some info when they will actually release.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-08-14, 20:08:06
Any reason youre favouring the enermax over the Noctua TR4 Cooler?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: philipb on 2019-08-14, 20:17:02

I've seen one or two test results suggesting it could be as much as 9-10C cooler. So that's a nice amount of headroom for PBO to do its thing.

But then maybe those results are not completely accurate. I think it was gamers-nexus and one other review. But, also with PBO Im not sure if the testing is well designed. I did all my research nearly a year ago, so hard to remember.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-14, 20:28:11
This is the test Philipb mentions, it was by GamerNexus, using the smaller 240mm version and even that one is already 5C Delta better when normalized for same noise.

(https://www.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2017/coolers/tr4-enermax/air-vs-liquid-tr-p95-40dba.png)

But then you only have to look at one of many threads like this and you will realize that the product is simply a mistake in every single revision and iteration.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/bbhxxz/thinking_enermax_liqtech_ii_tr4_dont/

Also, overclocking Threadripper doesn't give you higher single-core, that one already boosts as high as it gets ( +/- 4.1 GHz with good cooler) and with PBO you can get higher all-core boost which is nice if it's your only machine but otherwise easy to live without.
As Zen2 Ryzens shown, overclocking as we know it, is becoming a thing of a past. Useless.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-08-14, 21:04:54
I mean yeah looking at that for the same of what 4 degrees id rather not risk leakage and know that i can probably fix any issue with the noctua myself.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-14, 22:22:37
I must have been blind because they did test the 360mm version as well. It's 9 degrees. That's massive difference.

But it's what it is.. I wouldn't risk it either. And neither would I bother replacing it with warranty every year.

(https://www.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2017/coolers/tr4-enermax/enermax-360-vs-240-p95-40dba.png)

I suggest simply to swap to NH-D15 TR4 when it will come. The difference between U14S and D15S is 4-5C, but that's on much smaller surface area. For TR4 platform and with the new improved model, the difference will be easily 6-7C.

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-17, 01:51:23
Little update from my end. I've decided to stop for a moment and wait for ryzen 9 3950X to come and hopefully any news about new threadrippers (I crave for info about them, big time) Worst case scenario I'll end up with 3950X + 64 gigs of ram, best case scenario I'll buy new 32/64 TR. Buying 2990WX is also an option but still big question mark here........this is killing me.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-17, 09:14:03
Yeah right now waiting is probably the best.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-08-17, 19:25:56
Little update from my end. I've decided to stop for a moment and wait for ryzen 9 3950X to come and hopefully any news about new threadrippers (I crave for info about them, big time) Worst case scenario I'll end up with 3950X + 64 gigs of ram, best case scenario I'll buy new 32/64 TR. Buying 2990WX is also an option but still big question mark here........this is killing me.

Once the 3900x came out the prices for the 1920x/2920x really took a hit. Maybe when the 3950x comes out it will drop the 1950x/2950x, maybe even the 29xxwx's. The 1950x has gone on sale for really cheap lately. Microcenter had the 2970wx on sale for $700 at one point.

But yeah at this point waiting to see what comes next month is probably the best thing to do, otherwise you will most likely have buyers remorse.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-18, 14:46:34
Haste makes waste as they say but it seems it's gonna be a long wait :(
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: kod3d on 2019-08-21, 00:25:19
Hello to all,

Joining the threadripper fuzz I’ve ordered two of these machines, all water cooled with a 480 and a 360 each and lots of fans, ( big case )
I’ll let you know how it goes!

Case
THERMALTAKE CORE X71 TEMPERED GLASS EDITION CASE
Custom Liquid Cooling Kit
Liquid Series Extreme Kit - EK
Tubing
Clear Flexible Tubing (Black Fittings)
Graphics Card Water Cooling x2
CPU AMD Threadripper 2990WX 32 Core
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG ZENITH EXTREME ALPHA
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO DDR4 3000MHz (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
11GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti
2nd Graphics Card
11GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti
2nd Storage Drive
4TB Samsung 860 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB WD Black™ SN750 M.2 NVMe SSD (up to 3400MB/s R | 2900MB/s W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1600W PRO SERIES™ TITANIUM AX1600i DIGITAL MODULAR PSU
Braided Power Supply Cables
CORSAIR Premium Individually Sleeved PSU Cable Kit Pro - Black
Extra Case Fans
6x Corsair LL120 RGB LED Fan + Controller Kit


Regards,

Konstantinos
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-21, 13:12:41
Hah nice :- ). Very much like the build I did for Veronika.

Anyway,...my warning. CLEAN everything from EK before you build it. Flush with warm water, then Vinegar for radiators, then distilled water in the end.
EK claims everything is "clean, ready to mount", it's the biggest bullshit ever. I could show you how that turned out after 6 months...

Also, if you use their Primochill Premix, buy another concentrate and mix them together for stronger solution. By default it's 1:9, mix it so it's 1:8 or 1:7... it will work lot longer.

Post photos !!
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-21, 13:19:02
I admire you peeps going at it with watercooling your workstations. I just can't bring myself to do it - too many question marks and too much hassle for me personally if I'm running it as a daily workstation. Still, the pros of going with watercooling are appealing for sure :)

Bravo everyone! :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-21, 14:59:36
EKWB "Ready to mount, no washing needed". Enjoy :- ) It took two days to take it apart and clean. This "was" 'clear tubing' and 'clear liquid', so nothing that can contaminate it.
I was stupid and lazy to trust marketing shit :- (.



Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-21, 15:20:52
Let's face it Juraj, your decisions has nothing to do with stupidity, we all would do the same thing. When you buy very expensive car you just assume that it's ready to ride and free of flaws. Your experience should be a lesson for all of us and be posted on front page as a warning/reminder. Have you contacted EKWB?

Still don't know if I should admire Kod3d's courage or "rashness". I agree with niklar's perspective, my sentiments exactly.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-21, 15:38:39
Have you contacted EKWB?

I did...they sent me their blog post how to clean the parts :- ) Heh..so much for buying 1600 Euro in parts from them by now. Sterling customer service.


Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-21, 15:55:01
ooooohhh, so nice of them, it warms up my heart ;)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: kod3d on 2019-08-21, 16:05:10
Yeah, thanx for the advice Juraj!

I’ll post some photos and benchmarks when they’re ready (~2 weeks maybe)
I know it maybe seems like rushing but really I need the PC’s now and it’ll probably be 2020 by the time threadripper 3 is out with all the mobos supporting it and all the initial bugs and bios ironed out.. till we know what’s what.

Totally excited!

Konstantinos

Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-08-21, 19:29:13
When you need something now, it stands to buy it :- ).

Rather true what you mentioned about initial bugs...I almost forgot what a hassle that was..
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-21, 20:09:06
 New CPU's equals new questions (for you Juraj I'm affraid) ;)  I didn't think about matching mobo's, cpu's and dimm's at all which is unwise. Buying and finding right parts will take weeks (if I'm lucky enough) so in best case scenario new WS will come to life in january/february.....and correct me if I'm wrong but it means 5 months of pointless waiting.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: psanitra on 2019-08-29, 21:34:46
Here we go , multiple options with "TR3"

https://www.techpowerup.com/258739/amd-readies-three-hedt-chipsets-trx40-trx80-and-wrx80
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: vfga10 on 2019-08-30, 14:55:16
Hi all,
I am about to buy in the next week my first computer. I have never build anyone before but I will ask for some help to some friends and IT team from my company.
Several colleagues told me to read Juraj Talcik threads to understand and have a better knowledge before buying anything.
I am a little concerned because many people posted they are problems with Max crashing several times after moving to AMD Threadripper, so I will like to know if you can give me some feedback of your experience with it. Is it just because people might not have configured their PC properly or you do have some issues having an AMD working with MAX.

I have seen the configuration you suggested in other thread:
 1.AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX 32-Core Socket TR4 3.0GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
 2.MSI MEG X399 Creation TR4 E-ATX Motherboard
 3.8 x Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (1x 16GB) DDR4 3000MHz
 4.EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING, 11G-P4-6393-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Cooler & LED
 5.2xNoctua 120mm NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.black.swap 1500RPM Fan
 6.Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB
 7.Seasonic SSR-750PD 750W PRIME 80+ Platinum Fully Modular Power Supply
 8.Fractal Design Define R6

I have see you recommended to buy as well:
EKWB loop, all parts.

What exactly I need from those and where to get them from?

The PC configuration would be around 8K approx.
Are they AMD Processors better for corona than Intel?
Is it easy to configure and set up the PC?

Thank you so much everyone for all your help
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: twoheads on 2019-08-30, 23:49:16
Here we go , multiple options with "TR3"

https://www.techpowerup.com/258739/amd-readies-three-hedt-chipsets-trx40-trx80-and-wrx80

It looks like next "teaser" from amd to me. I'm going to enjoy my tea and wait for official announcements and price tags, then we'll talk. :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: arpit077 on 2019-08-31, 20:18:10
Hi, I need a help over threadipper 2990wx and corona.

I have a threadipper 2990wx cpu with asus prime x399 a motherboard+ RTX 2070 + GTX 1070 + 56 gb ram currently Installed.

What my problem is, Whenever I am rendering anything. Even a very simple scene with few objects and hdri. Corona and 3dsmax starts lagging like a lot. It gets impossible to work on it.
Here is a link to a video which I made (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xdnfopmk2qptwe/corona%20bug.mp4?dl=0)

So far, I have tried many solutions such as:
1)Limiting core usage on corona.
2) Installing corona 3/corona 4 and even corona 5 daily build.
3) Installing 3dsmax 2017, 2018, 2019 even 2020

As I go up on versions, the problem becomes worse. For only lagging to crashing whole 3dsmax scene.

As you can see in the video, the scene file is very basic. In task manager you can see...ram is not full....even graphics card using 1 to 2% usage. Everything seems to work normal.
I have Intel 6900k and AMD 1800x too and In that system, corona runs very smooth. Both are octa-core system. But in amd 2990wx, corona seems like it is not supporting the processor at all.
I have done corona, vray, Indigo render stress test. Everything stress test go flawless.

As far as I have tried debugging, I think this problem is related to corona not being able to handle the SMT of AMD. with that many cores, corona becomes unstable.(I do not know for sure)

I would appreciate any help on this issue.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: PROH on 2019-08-31, 20:24:41
Hi. Not an expert, but from what I've read, it's likely caused by your motherboard model. It's not build well for the 32 core chip :(
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: arpit077 on 2019-08-31, 21:00:06
I have done benchmarking with vray and Indigo benchmark and done stress testing too and monitored temps of the motherboard as well as cpu. Everything seems normal to me. So, is it that asus prime x399 is not compatible to run corona? Other applications seems run fine and smooth. Anyway, which motherboard would you suggest for 2990wx? I might give it a try.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: PROH on 2019-08-31, 22:44:28
Hi. Take a look at post #429 in this thread. It's not about "compatibility with Corona". It's more about being build for extreme 32 core workload.

Hope it helps
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: philipb on 2019-09-02, 05:32:25
Hi, I need a help over threadipper 2990wx and corona.

I have a threadipper 2990wx cpu with asus prime x399 a motherboard+ RTX 2070 + GTX 1070 + 56 gb ram currently Installed.

What my problem is, Whenever I am rendering anything. Even a very simple scene with few objects and hdri. Corona and 3dsmax starts lagging like a lot. It gets impossible to work on it.
Here is a link to a video which I made (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xdnfopmk2qptwe/corona%20bug.mp4?dl=0)

So far, I have tried many solutions such as:
1)Limiting core usage on corona.
2) Installing corona 3/corona 4 and even corona 5 daily build.
3) Installing 3dsmax 2017, 2018, 2019 even 2020

As I go up on versions, the problem becomes worse. For only lagging to crashing whole 3dsmax scene.

As you can see in the video, the scene file is very basic. In task manager you can see...ram is not full....even graphics card using 1 to 2% usage. Everything seems to work normal.
I have Intel 6900k and AMD 1800x too and In that system, corona runs very smooth. Both are octa-core system. But in amd 2990wx, corona seems like it is not supporting the processor at all.
I have done corona, vray, Indigo render stress test. Everything stress test go flawless.

As far as I have tried debugging, I think this problem is related to corona not being able to handle the SMT of AMD. with that many cores, corona becomes unstable.(I do not know for sure)

I would appreciate any help on this issue.


Its not your MOBO!

I have the ASUS ROG STRIX X399-E. Also same foundation as Prime and Zenith EXtreme MOBO.  When people say its not built for 2990wx, what they are (or should be) referring to is total power delivery, i.e. VRM. Even with ROG STRIX X399-E I can run my 2990wx with no problems at 3.3-3.6 across all cores as long as I cool the VRM directly with a fan.

If you have poor viewport performance in 3ds max this is clearly not a product of your MOBO, unless it is totally F-ed for some reason.

Few ideas.

1) You want to be running quad channel ram. That means using 4 or 8 sticks. Not sure how you are getting to 56, but if you aren't running 4 or 8 sticks then you are cheating your self. Makes a huge difference for rendering. Quad channel memory. Fix that shit. 4 or 8 sticks of the same type/model of ram. Nothing else.

2) Try trouble shooting your video cards. You have mixed gen cards. Try pulling one and testing, then pulling the other. See if anything changes.

3) Update gpu drivers, or move to last known stable drivers for 3ds max.

4) Idea 4 is not a fun one. If I were you and 1, 2 & 3 dont solve your problem then I would be going for a full clean install of windows 10. Install max first and start testing from the get go. Install plug-ins, apps, and keep testing in between, see if and where it goes wrong. Maybe your install is dirty, or got messed up.

Just my two cents.
2
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: arpit077 on 2019-09-02, 08:15:38
Hi, I have finally been able to debug the issue. The issue was caused by a windows 10 feature called control flow guard. You can read all about here. https://www.thewindowsclub.com/control-flow-guard-windows

After I turned this feature off in windows 10. The performance of corona+3dsmax all improved all together with no lag whatsoever.

If someone ever experience performance lag issue in future, I would recommend turning this feature off on windows 10. 
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: PROH on 2019-09-02, 11:09:37
Thanks for sharing your findings :)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: arpit077 on 2019-09-02, 11:16:34
Also, you can get this small piece of software if you have 2990wx for CPU optimization.

https://bitsum.com/portfolio/coreprio/

Thanks to Vladimir for pointing this out.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-09-02, 12:32:17

 1.AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX 32-Core Socket TR4 3.0GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
 2.MSI MEG X399 Creation TR4 E-ATX Motherboard
 3.8 x Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (1x 16GB) DDR4 3000MHz
 4.EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING, 11G-P4-6393-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Cooler & LED
 5.2xNoctua 120mm NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.black.swap 1500RPM Fan
 6.Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB
 7.Seasonic SSR-750PD 750W PRIME 80+ Platinum Fully Modular Power Supply
 8.Fractal Design Define R6

Thank you so much everyone for all your help

You don't need to go full custom water loop, I did it because I like both performance and super silence at same time, but overall I am not sure it's worth the price premium for most.
Buy Noctua UH-14S TR4, and in few months, when NH-D15 TR4 will come out for Threadripper platform, sell the U14 and replace it with the much stronger D15.


Hi, I have finally been able to debug the issue. The issue was caused by a windows 10 feature called control flow guard. You can read all about here. https://www.thewindowsclub.com/control-flow-guard-windows
After I turned this feature off in windows 10. The performance of corona+3dsmax all improved all together with no lag whatsoever.
If someone ever experience performance lag issue in future, I would recommend turning this feature off on windows 10. 

Yup, this has been issue since 3dsMax 2017+ for some reason. I never had it in 2016 which I use, and I have zero issue with the 2990WX performance and 3dsMax, Corona, or anything else.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: vfga10 on 2019-09-02, 12:54:21

 1.AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX 32-Core Socket TR4 3.0GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
 2.MSI MEG X399 Creation TR4 E-ATX Motherboard
 3.8 x Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (1x 16GB) DDR4 3000MHz
 4.EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING, 11G-P4-6393-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Cooler & LED
 5.2xNoctua 120mm NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.black.swap 1500RPM Fan
 6.Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB
 7.Seasonic SSR-750PD 750W PRIME 80+ Platinum Fully Modular Power Supply
 8.Fractal Design Define R6

Thank you so much everyone for all your help

You don't need to go full custom water loop, I did it because I like both performance and super silence at same time, but overall I am not sure it's worth the price premium for most.
Buy Noctua UH-14S TR4, and in few months, when NH-D15 TR4 will come out for Threadripper platform, sell the U14 and replace it with the much stronger D15.


Hi, I have finally been able to debug the issue. The issue was caused by a windows 10 feature called control flow guard. You can read all about here. https://www.thewindowsclub.com/control-flow-guard-windows
After I turned this feature off in windows 10. The performance of corona+3dsmax all improved all together with no lag whatsoever.
If someone ever experience performance lag issue in future, I would recommend turning this feature off on windows 10. 

Yup, this has been issue since 3dsMax 2017+ for some reason. I never had it in 2016 which I use, and I have zero issue with the 2990WX performance and 3dsMax, Corona, or anything else.


Thank you so much for your tips they are indeed super useful!
I wouldn't mind spending a few more on the cooling system if it is worth, I just remember we had a leaking issue on my previous company which damage the mother board and a few more components, so I would rather go for air cooling if it can reduce the same amount of heat.

Thank you Juraj
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-09-02, 14:20:34
Custom cooling won't start leaking accidently, you test it when you build it (EKWB even sells pressure device to do this more intensively) and if you tightened everything well, it will be quite leak-proof. The hardware is quite over-built.
Just for information, the custom loop is +/- 800 Euro.

The same cannot be said for All-In-One kits, which are generally poor quality and I would never personally go for them instead of air cooler. Noctua NH-D15 is just as strong (and often stronger) than most of these AIO kits anyway, it's just sadly not available yet. UH-14 is ok if you don't overclock.
The Thermaltake LiqTech series has proven itself worthy to be ignored (faulty over 4 revisions). Terrible quality control, too much risk.

And overclocking 2990WX is not really worth it, your single-core turbo is already capped (it will never go higher than 4.1 +/- GHz no matter what), so you can just rise all-core turbo and get additional 10perc. performance in exchange for more heat/noise. PBO makes this quite easy and is the correct way to do it (you can do manual all-core fixed ratios, but then you loose the single-core boost in exchange and that's much bigger benefit for workstation).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: JoeVallard on 2019-09-02, 20:35:40
Looks like were finally starting to get some Threadripper 3000 end up on benchmark sites.
https://www.techradar.com/news/leaked-ryzen-threadripper-3000-32-core-cpu-benchmark-leaves-threadripper-2990wx-in-the-dust (https://www.techradar.com/news/leaked-ryzen-threadripper-3000-32-core-cpu-benchmark-leaves-threadripper-2990wx-in-the-dust)

32 core userbenchmark
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/890751/AMD-Eng-Sample--2D2832E6UIVG5-4236-N (https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/890751/AMD-Eng-Sample--2D2832E6UIVG5-4236-N)
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: cjwidd on 2019-09-08, 16:59:28
Juraj, I am running a 2950x which runs stock at 3.5Ghz, but I have applied the auto-overclocking in UEFI BIOS which increases the system performance to 3.75Ghz. You mentioned above that Noctua NH-U14S is not suitable for overclocking, but what range of overclocking are you considering in that suggestion?
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-09-09, 15:03:33
Juraj, I am running a 2950x which runs stock at 3.5Ghz, but I have applied the auto-overclocking in UEFI BIOS which increases the system performance to 3.75Ghz. You mentioned above that Noctua NH-U14S is not suitable for overclocking, but what range of overclocking are you considering in that suggestion?

Depends on each particular CPU, but 2950X has much lower TDP than 2990WX so it's more than fine with using PBO overclock under U14S. I mentioned the U14S as not suitable for overclocking 2990WX.

You can overclock it until you don't enjoy the buzzing noise from fans :- ).
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Jpjapers on 2019-09-18, 12:06:51
2990wx in my machine isnt sustaining 100% utilisation during render. it hits like 3.4ghz then drops to maybe 35% then ramps back up to 100% and hits 3.4 again then drops down again. Is this an issue with the OC? Or is it just the workload? AIDA64 Showing no obvious issues.
Title: Re: Threadripper Builds
Post by: Juraj Talcik on 2019-09-18, 18:24:19
The reporting is not really precise, but regardless Corona doesn't utilize 100perc. all-core performance all the time at same intensity, some recomputations happen (adaptibility, bloom&glare,etc.. not sure which and how many of them cause the 'spikes'.