Corona Renderer Forum

Corona Renderer for Cinema 4D => Corona Renderer for Cinema 4D - general => Topic started by: Gr100 on 2019-08-01, 04:09:37

Title: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-08-01, 04:09:37
Hi,

When are we getting Corona Scatter for Cinema 4D?
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Vlad_Greben on 2019-08-01, 13:34:26


When are we getting Corona Scatter for Cinema 4D?

Hi, I support your question! I pay for the plugin, but it does not have all the features that are available in the crown version for 3ds max. This is frustrating (I would like to have a built-in, good scatter.
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: TomG on 2019-08-01, 13:37:48
We started with the things that there were no way to do in Cinema 4D - unlike Max, there are actually in-built solutions for scattering via the powerful tools in C4D that have no equivalent in Max (which is why we had to develop Scatter from scratch there). Since there was "some way to do this already" in C4D, we made the priority other things that simply didn't exist in C4D and that there was no way of doing. Going forward, we'll keep suggestions like this in mind though :)
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-01, 13:55:48
We started with the things that there were no way to do in Cinema 4D - unlike Max, there are actually in-built solutions for scattering via the powerful tools in C4D that have no equivalent in Max (which is why we had to develop Scatter from scratch there). Since there was "some way to do this already" in C4D, we made the priority other things that simply didn't exist in C4D and that there was no way of doing. Going forward, we'll keep suggestions like this in mind though :)

If I may, I somewhat agree with the above but would respectfully disagree with the statement that the existing built in solutions are covered. Currently Corona doens't support multi-instancing and so any "proper" scattering is still unsupported - at least in my book.

Sure you can use the regular instance mode but you either get an unresponsive viewport with 10000 clones or really long preparation times. And 10000 clones barely cover a patch of grass on a backyard.

I'm also of the opinion that there would probably be a few requests less for Corona Scatter for C4D if we'd have multi-instance support. Although that being said, Corona scatter does have a few functions that we don't have in c4d (non overlapping bounding  boxes etc...)

Right now there is no way to scatter a fair amount of things in the scene with Corona without being faced with either super long preparation times or unresponsive viewport. That powerful toolset that C4D has built in is in my opinion currently not being utilized, at least for arch-viz purposes.

Hope it doesn't come out harsh because thats so not the point, just trying to spark a debate I  guess :)
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: TomG on 2019-08-01, 14:23:10
Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step. On the in-built tools not being as powerful (even with multi-instance), that was the case of putting focus between "You can do it already, but it's a bit trickier" things vs. "You can't do it at all" things. Focus went on the second, so while in-built scattering may make life easier or do more (again, outside of multi-instance), it was still possible in C4D to some degree (while not possible at all in Max without paying for extra tools). As things move forward with the "can't do it at all" things addressed, we'll have to see how everything else fits in :)
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-08-01, 17:43:55
Fully agree with you nkilar. I’ve had it up to here with disappointments for these pass years.
We’ve struggled so much with these plugins, softwares; mostly with the fact that, they are developed and marketed as solutions which in most cases they cause more frustration than good.
We’ve invested about $10,000 in softwares and plug-ins over the past 6 years and another $25,000 in computer upgrades intended to compliment these softwares as well.
All we ask is that they work the way that they are intended to and not just be a money grab (no pun intended). We pay thousands of dollars purchasing Plugins that are suppose to compliment another and it’s the same thing all over again.
In a sense though; we are the ones
who failed. It was written in our business plan that we’ll never commit to single software for producing the same work
But we did. For that reason, we are suffering today. Approximately 6 months with virtually no work done, no new projects aquired and no hope of moving pass this rut. I’ve reached out to even developers over at FStorm, who unfortunately aren’t continuing with developing the plugin for C4D. I basically quit coming to this forum to post my concerns because they
rarely ever get resolved or end up with responses like these from the Corona team. A roadblock!
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: TomG on 2019-08-01, 17:48:32
Well, Corona for C4D was never advertised as having Scatter, so anyone purchasing knew what they would get (and not get). Also, lots of companies are making money and completing projects with Corona for Max and for C4D, including with grass, vegetation, rocks and other such elements, so clearly there is no total roadblock here in completing any kind of project. I am not sure what is wrong with our response - we have to prioritize what we work on, as nice as it would be to "do everything!" it's not humanly possible, so we prioritized things that are roadblocks (no way at all to do it in C4D) over those that can solved with existing tools. If that way of prioritizing upsets you, or an honest response like that, well....
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: 3dkobi on 2019-08-02, 05:41:42
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Exactly on 2019-08-02, 13:12:53
Back to Scatter and Instancing...

Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step.

I would like to see a fix for the "render instance" mode first as I am still seeing issues with this mode...especially with lights. If you add Multi Instance support at the same time then I am even more happy :-)
Render instance works in the IR but not in the VFB so I have to change all my cloner modes at render time which can be a bit of a pain...especially when you forget one of them :-)
This has been like it since Corona 3 and I check every new release for this being fixed and still no improvement.

Using C4D and Corona today with lots of instancing (most of my scenes) just makes things harder than they should be and I am sure you can appreciate that this is frustrating. Hopefully things will be implemented/fixed soon. Maybe you can give us an estimate on when you hope to have these changes?

Thanks

Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: koubankeo on 2019-08-02, 14:08:42
Yes, we need it urgently. The roadmap is scheduled for Q4 / 2019, but no progress yet.

Exterior scene or many instances can be created, but with a lot of time and suffering. Also, I do not know if it is possible to speed up parsing time, but for a slightly larger scene it takes too long.
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Cinemike on 2019-08-02, 15:21:55
If I am not doing everything wrong, multi-instances are supported in the "normal" render, just not with IR - I can live with that. For all other cases, there are still render instances and, for the viewport, there's the display tag. Multi-instances are R20+ only anyway, so a lot of people still live with renderinstances. And fully displaying multi-instances (and not as dots or boxes) will still slow down the viewport considerably with enough instances.
I would like to have the non-intersection function (harder to "mimiick" with mograph), but aside from that ...
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-08-03, 11:51:56
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-08-03, 11:53:22
Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step. On the in-built tools not being as powerful (even with multi-instance), that was the case of putting focus between "You can do it already, but it's a bit trickier" things vs. "You can't do it at all" things. Focus went on the second, so while in-built scattering may make life easier or do more (again, outside of multi-instance), it was still possible in C4D to some degree (while not possible at all in Max without paying for extra tools). As things move forward with the "can't do it at all" things addressed, we'll have to see how everything else fits in :)


Multi- Instances is a problem regardless of workflow, regardless of whatever scatter plugin we’ve used used so far.
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: jamieirvin on 2019-08-14, 12:48:43
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead. 
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: CBAS VISUAL on 2019-08-14, 18:49:46
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead.

+1
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Exactly on 2019-08-15, 11:45:36

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB. 

With Corona lights it does not work (IR or VFB).
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: nkilar on 2019-08-15, 12:19:03
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead.

Yeah if I understand you correctly I have to respectfully disagree. My logic is the following...

Yes we can optimize everything and recreate pretty much _anything_ with Corona 4 for C4D. We could have done that with the beta. We could have done that with the alpha... Heck, we could have done everything with the Standard renderer. Mental ray? Brazil? DOS? Wouldn't be fun or fast but doable. Just needs a couple of years to create and render :)

So I wouldn't argue that at all but what I would argue is that supporting modern functionality is crucial and its how we advance things get to a point where we can spend more time on Y instead of X because the workflow to get X looking great is a lot faster now.

Think of it like working without the interactive renderer, period. Before we had it everyone was totally cool with the way things were. Now we have IR and nobody wants to work without it. In that sense, I am super happy the C4D devs decided to port over that functionality seeing as 3ds Max already had it :) As a matter of fact, seeing IR in an early alpha for 3ds Max, I was all over buying that software package.

So yeah, should multi-instances be supported? If you ask me then YES by all means. The devs already know this (they are some real nice peeps) as I've been fairly vocal about putting them on the priority list as soon as R20 got into the late beta. Multi-instances were are game changer for many in the arch-viz field yet we are still not supporting them fully.

I would even take it as far as to say that Corona is an arch-viz renderer primarily and right now its still cumbersome to get any sort of scatters going in medium to complex scenes. Scatter something on that cactus? IR won't show it. Scatter something outside the window to create interesting lighting? IR won't show it... Or you know, you can use the "normal" cloner and you'll be working with 0.01 fps.

For C4D multi-instances are big because the object handling is still clunky and a weak point and so we don't have many options. Maxon realized that and came up with multi-instances so that at least we can do something. Yet, Corona is like the only renderer without supporting them fully.
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: Gr100 on 2019-09-02, 05:36:18
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead.

Yeah if I understand you correctly I have to respectfully disagree. My logic is the following...

Yes we can optimize everything and recreate pretty much _anything_ with Corona 4 for C4D. We could have done that with the beta. We could have done that with the alpha... Heck, we could have done everything with the Standard renderer. Mental ray? Brazil? DOS? Wouldn't be fun or fast but doable. Just needs a couple of years to create and render :)

So I wouldn't argue that at all but what I would argue is that supporting modern functionality is crucial and its how we advance things get to a point where we can spend more time on Y instead of X because the workflow to get X looking great is a lot faster now.

Think of it like working without the interactive renderer, period. Before we had it everyone was totally cool with the way things were. Now we have IR and nobody wants to work without it. In that sense, I am super happy the C4D devs decided to port over that functionality seeing as 3ds Max already had it :) As a matter of fact, seeing IR in an early alpha for 3ds Max, I was all over buying that software package.

So yeah, should multi-instances be supported? If you ask me then YES by all means. The devs already know this (they are some real nice peeps) as I've been fairly vocal about putting them on the priority list as soon as R20 got into the late beta. Multi-instances were are game changer for many in the arch-viz field yet we are still not supporting them fully.

I would even take it as far as to say that Corona is an arch-viz renderer primarily and right now its still cumbersome to get any sort of scatters going in medium to complex scenes. Scatter something on that cactus? IR won't show it. Scatter something outside the window to create interesting lighting? IR won't show it... Or you know, you can use the "normal" cloner and you'll be working with 0.01 fps.

For C4D multi-instances are big because the object handling is still clunky and a weak point and so we don't have many options. Maxon realized that and came up with multi-instances so that at least we can do something. Yet, Corona is like the only renderer without supporting them fully.


No, i guess we just "bitching"
Salute Corona, we love your work but if we don't point out our concerns then how else would you know?
This dude being offensive/ offended because him and his studio happen to be having far less of a frustrating situation or " Lacking Empathy" if you will...
But just so you know, multi-instances wasn't a problem back in the alpha phase. But...
Title: Re: CORONA SCATTER
Post by: synolog on 2019-09-02, 11:40:08
Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

Have you used multi instances here https://www.infinite3d.co.uk/3d-visualization?lightbox=dataItem-iz8mjykn3 ?
It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead.