Author Topic: CMPPmax discussions  (Read 17039 times)

2016-08-19, 01:24:46

Siger

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... but it has a search function which is badly needed in CMPP. Can't believe I bought a library manager minus that!!

I'll see how dev. goes with CMPP Mat manger over the next couple of months but I'll be jumping ship if it remains the same and pick either of these two.

Search/filtering function implementation into material Category (library - *mat file) is simply (for example by material name). But I am not absolutely sure that it is necessary, as isn't recommended to insert more than 50-60 materials into one library. Material library is an array (tab), and I think (I'm not sure, because library file format is closed) it is multidimensional array. Please note, that each opened library scene library is a global variable and can't be fully disposed (but can be replaced with other value - library content). Search/filtering over entire collection or section is impossible in fast way, because via MaxSdk can be opened only one temp scene library in at one time. And yes, can be implemented algorithm search by thumbnail or xml file content, but it will be very very slow... My policy - as much as possible to simplify use and not to implement any excessive functions. On the other hand, I am always open for offers for improving, increases of convenience of use :)

Now in progress new major CMPPmax version (free for all CMPPmax users). User material manager will be identical VMPPmax4.
« Last Edit: 2016-08-23, 14:34:03 by romullus »

2016-08-19, 03:33:28
Reply #1

antanas

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@3dwannab hmm, maybe I just didn't see that tagging function is there - there are quite a few features there so I could've missed that one, but as I wrote before, when material structure is well organized (like say in CMPP) or at least is structured in an recognizable pattern which or is organized in a manner which follows one's thinking patterns (well I for instance tend to repeat myself unconsciously quite a lot and)) there's no real need for the tags at least I even hadn't been looking for those even once )) Tagging on model library on the other hand would be truly useful, except for manually tagging each model in my model library would probably take months as it's size is around 2Tb with 828652 individual files in it - majority of which are of course textures but, still, you can easily imagine the amount of manual tagging which would need to be done ))

 @Siger, ahh that new Ui looks gorgeous, you really have a knack for designing those, well besides almost godlike powers in material creation)) Ehh if only it would be you who designed Project Manager's Ui...
 Which gets me thinking almost every time I use PM or CMPP - maybe the two of you could collaborate on making some new redesigned and improved version of PM which both of you could then sell on both your sites - I think that wouldn't be such a bad idea considering you both have some userbase and it is quite possible what not many people knows of PM (which in fact really is a great piece of software) and vice versa and most surely, as 3dwannab wrote above, some of those who know about it are turned off by it's outdated, anti-eye-candy and seemingly not too well organized interface - it isn't so bad when you get a little used to it but, still,  imagine what a good seller that one might become if designed and marketed right ;)
 On a more realistic matter - it would be nice to have drag and drop functionality for both material editor and objects directly from CMPP as it would speed up material assignment quite a bit and that's probably the main reason why I extracted your material library from CMPP and now use it mostly through Project Manager which has a drag and drop function and because of that is way faster to work with or at least most surely so in my case..
 And one more question - what became of RAL\SIKKENS\NCS Color Solid maps ? - those were really quite good and could save quite a lot of time in some cases, but now I cannot find them on your site anymore and the links on scriptspot point to some empty pages. Well I personally use only Ral (Pantone's one wouldn't hurt too btw.) version as the other two color systems are quite rare in the region I work in, but still those are quite useful for the people living in different parts of the world I imagine. 
« Last Edit: 2016-08-19, 03:41:05 by antanas »

2016-08-19, 04:22:47
Reply #2

Siger

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@Siger, ahh that new Ui looks gorgeous, you really have a knack for designing those, well besides almost godlike powers in material creation)) Ehh if only it would be you who designed Project Manager's Ui...
 Which gets me thinking almost every time I use PM or CMPP - maybe the two of you could collaborate on making some new redesigned and improved version of PM which both of you could then sell on both your sites - I think that wouldn't be such a bad idea considering you both have some userbase and it is quite possible what not many people knows of PM (which in fact really is a great piece of software) and vice versa and most surely, as 3dwannab wrote above, some of those who know about it are turned off by it's outdated, anti-eye-candy and seemingly not too well organized interface - it isn't so bad when you get a little used to it but, still,  imagine what a good seller that one might become if designed and marketed right ;)
 On a more realistic matter - it would be nice to have drag and drop functionality for both material editor and objects directly from CMPP as it would speed up material assignment quite a bit and that's probably the main reason why I extracted your material library from CMPP and now use it mostly through Project Manager which has a drag and drop function and because of that is way faster to work with or at least most surely so in my case..
 And one more question - what became of RAL\SIKKENS\NCS Color Solid maps ? - those were really quite good and could save quite a lot of time in some cases, but now I cannot find them on your site anymore and the links on scriptspot point to some empty pages. Well I personally use only Ral (Pantone's one wouldn't hurt too btw.) version as the other two color systems are quite rare in the region I work in, but still those are quite useful for the people living in different parts of the world I imagine.

To the first part perhaps I will refrain to respond :D
I already thought about drag'n'drop functionality and it will be implemented, perhaps not soon as I would like, but...

The skeleton of RAL Color Solid project is already prepared (C++), but day has only 24 hours.. Still I don't know about future of Sikkens colors texmap.
NCS has requested such price for the license, that it will become to me a pure loss.

2016-08-19, 15:14:44
Reply #3

3dwannab

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Top additions to CMPP mat manager I would like,

1. Search function. I know you say it's going to be slow but vizpark have it and it seems quite responsive ;) (tested with 200+ mats)

2. Slate material editor support (Apply to object and load into SME also with one click)
3. Right click (render thumbnail)
4. Replace/over write old mat with new mat from objects (Right click replace mat with selected objects)
5. Tags
6. Drag n'Drop to selection/objects
7. Remember UI state where you left it (size, pos). (I find myself having to adjust the size every time I open it)
8. When Clicking (a-z sorting) it saves that to the .mat file leaving it ordered the next time you come back.

In bold are Features currently in vizparks manager

I don't what this to turn into a thread solely about mat mangers but these for me are my top additions I'd personally like to CMPP.

PS. I love the new layout (option for larger than 200px previews?) you've done and thanks for adding the move to category and copy to category I requested via email :)

EDIT: Assign to selection/ME really needs a sub-menu on right-click? Vizparks seems a more ergonomic to me. See attached.
« Last Edit: 2016-08-19, 15:48:33 by 3dwannab »

2016-08-19, 16:59:59
Reply #4

Juraj Talcik

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I can absolutely echo everything 3dwannab wrote.

The non-hierarchic categories through tags is quite genial.... I like the clarity of hierarchy in CMPP(MPP), but in case I have a fabric in both general fabrics, and under special Brand or Client, with tags I can just select 'fabric' and see all the fabrics I have, regardless on hierarchy location.
Auto-render function is total must. Right now I have to Add material, open it in scene, render, save it somewhere on the disc, and then go back and load it. A looot of clicks. And if I want to update material, I have to re-import the thumbnail again.

These two features are quite killer.
talcikdemovicova.com  Website and blog
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lysfaere.com   Something new

2016-08-19, 19:08:01
Reply #5

Siger

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Top additions to CMPP mat manager I would like,

1. Search function. I know you say it's going to be slow but vizpark have it and it seems quite responsive ;) (tested with 200+ mats)

2. Slate material editor support (Apply to object and load into SME also with one click)
3. Right click (render thumbnail)
4. Replace/over write old mat with new mat from objects (Right click replace mat with selected objects)
5. Tags
6. Drag n'Drop to selection/objects
7. Remember UI state where you left it (size, pos). (I find myself having to adjust the size every time I open it)
8. When Clicking (a-z sorting) it saves that to the .mat file leaving it ordered the next time you come back.

PS. I love the new layout (option for larger than 200px previews?

1. I think (maybe I am not right) all materials are organized into one library file - it's bad idea - it is very simple to lose all collection in case of any problematic material (my painful experience). Or always make a backup... Implement search/filtering in ONE library file is easy - convert temporary to enumerable collection and iterate through array and find by name... Exist and other ways. Hmm.. My materials collections contain about 20 000 materials for various engines and still I manage library without search :)
2. MaxSdk .NET not exposes SME interface (MaxScript in CMPPmax not used).
3. Until now I thinking about effective thumbnail rendering algorithm.
4. CMPPmax2 can override existing material (with the same name) and you can disable/enable warnings.
5. Already done (need some fixes).
6. User library lists order/views now saves into config file.

PS. What for? Bigger thumbnails will be generated slower and you can always open full preview image via context menu.
Is possible to copy/move not only materials, but also categories.

2016-08-19, 21:31:07
Reply #6

antanas

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To the first part perhaps I will refrain to respond :D
I already thought about drag'n'drop functionality and it will be implemented, perhaps not soon as I would like, but...

The skeleton of RAL Color Solid project is already prepared (C++), but day has only 24 hours.. Still I don't know about future of Sikkens colors texmap.
NCS has requested such price for the license, that it will become to me a pure loss.

I got a little carried away and blabbered away all of my "wet dreams" - yeah I've got not too much of any other wet dreams later ))
Good to hear that you at least consider that in the future and I see I'm not the only one wanting drag and drop to be added - that besides being handier to use, could at least solve slate material editor material adding.
RAL is the most useful and widespread of them all so screw all others - especially NCS - are they f***ing kidding - charging people for promoting their system\products that's just some new level of boldness ! Maybe only Pantone's color systems would be no less useful than RAL.

2016-08-19, 23:26:57
Reply #7

3dwannab

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5. Already done (need some fixes).
6. User library lists order/views now saves into config file.

PS. What for? Bigger thumbnails will be generated slower and you can always open full preview image via context menu.
Is possible to copy/move not only materials, but also categories.
Would be nice to have the option for larger initial thumbnails I guess.

Vizpark manages the library on a one material/one .mat file basis where they save the .mat file, preview and textures all within a folder automatically as soon as you add/import the material and I think they save that info to a presetManager.db file for searching/descriptions etc. I know it might be intrusive of your very hard work but you could download it and check it out. See what the competition is like. ;)

You lost me there with the numbering from 5-8 you gave in your answers. Could you clarify those, thanks.

Thumbnail rendering options for (draft | good | best) might be good too with 20, 50 & 100 passes would be a nice sweet spot.

Sorry for clogging the thread guys.

2016-08-19, 23:59:27
Reply #8

Siger

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Oh, yes :)
5. Tags.
So far I didn't think of it.
8. When Clicking (a-z sorting) it saves that to the .mat file leaving it ordered the next time you come back.
CMPPmax2 now remember lists sorting, window size, position, etc..

Material thumbnails CMPPmax is runtime generating in memory stream and disposing if not need more (no "real" image files saved) + virtualization of ListView (thumbnails display only in visible part of list). Larger thumbs will be created slower, and if materials in category for example > 50 - generating time can be more than several seconds. I can tell surely that so far thumbnails of the bigger size won't be :) Exist full preview option.

VP Material Manager and CMPPmax is different programs and it is developed on a different logic/structure. Let and will be further.. ;)
« Last Edit: 2016-08-20, 00:07:44 by Siger »

2016-08-23, 05:52:49
Reply #9

Siger

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Now implemented thumbnail rendering in new VMPPmax4 version as major new feature (will be available soon).
Key features:
- Preview quality: Draft, Medium, Best;
- Can be used default scenes with object/units/size options:
* Currently only Shaderball scene;
* Units: Centimeters, Centimeters Real-World scale, Inches, Inches Real-World scale;
* Size 20cm, 40cm, 80cm, 8in, 16in, 32in;
- Custom user scene;

ToDo
- Texmaps preview rendering;
- HDRI preview rendering;

All VMPPmax4 features will be included into CMPPmax2 - free upgrade for all CMPPmax users.

2016-08-23, 16:17:58
Reply #10

3dwannab

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Great thank you

If you have time could you add, a render thumbnail for cloth and possibly a liquid one like so.


2016-08-23, 18:51:59
Reply #11

steyin

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I know this might be too much to ask for, but is there way to have a setup/option for those of us that don't use metric? I mean, I have converted the sample scene to my own setup and adjusted maps to include imperial measurements (ex: the floor mat on my scene has 24 in. squares instead of 20/50cm), but I might have screwed up the UVW mapping in the process for the shaderball. Would be better to have it done by the program creator after all.


Also, I've found that the mapping doesn't work well with brick materials. So perhaps in addition to a cloth/liquid model, we could use a more squarish model for certain mats? Just throwing it out there.


Thanks for all the great work Siger.

2016-08-23, 20:10:51
Reply #12

Siger

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@3dwannab
Yes, is planned to include other scenes (now prepared only common (Hard surface) Shaderball scenes in centimeters and inches (standard and real-world).
VMPPmax4 preview rendering quick test on studio's FB: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Siger-Studio/185312571505874
@steyin
I will think about possibility using Custom scenes.

2016-09-02, 03:45:26
Reply #13

Siger

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Implemented preview rendering in VMPPmax4 (batch and single). Now working for this in CMPPmax2.

2016-09-03, 19:40:20
Reply #14

3dwannab

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Cool, but will control clicking materials to selectively choose materials to render thumbnail be possible instead of rendering one at a time or entire categories?