Author Topic: 3dsmax 2018 the lamest one in years...  (Read 12573 times)

2017-04-12, 13:38:13

arqrenderz

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2017-04-12, 14:13:31
Reply #1

vansan

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Just installed and uninstalled it.
No important features for me, I stay with 2016 version.

2017-04-12, 14:42:22
Reply #2

romullus

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Most important feature would be to finally fix all those bugs, they've manage to introduce in previous 3-4 releases... I'm on max 2016 now, but instead of wishing to jump to max 2018, i'm considering to go back to max 2014 :/
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
R.I.P. Niki Lauda

2017-04-12, 15:53:33
Reply #3

Frood

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Most important feature would be to finally fix all those bugs

Totally agree. I would even pay for a "new" version if there has "only" been bugfixing/optimizing existing features and basic functionallity and NO new feature at all.


Good Luck



Never underestimate the power of a well placed level one spell.

2017-04-12, 15:54:17
Reply #4

Ondra

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Totally agree. I would even pay for a "new" version if there has "only" been bugfixing/optimizing existing features and basic functionallity and NO new feature at all.

well... you got your second wish :D
/hides
Rendering is magic.
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2017-04-12, 16:07:39
Reply #5

Frood

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Oh there are new features. Means they introduced a lot new bugs joining those 15 years old ones.

/hides

Rather go fixing your bugs :]


Good Luck


Never underestimate the power of a well placed level one spell.

2017-04-13, 09:05:15
Reply #6

SairesArt

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For the lazy, MAX 2018 change log, excluding Arnold and 2017.1 changes:
Code: [Select]
User interface improvements:

QT5 framework with enhanced docking
Timeline tear-off
Ongoing Hi-DPI icon conversion (370 icons converted)
Tear-off menus
Faster switching between workspaces
Modular main toolbar.
---------------------------
Max Creation Graph changes:

Easy Map adds the ability to map over an operator by connecting an array of values for graph simplicity
Live Type displays computes types in the editor as you work
MCG type resolver improved so you no longer need to add extra nodes to provide hints about the type system in MCG
Compiler significantly improved to better optimize graph expressions, particularly with functions
No longer need to unpack MCG graph and MCG now uses compounds from the package
Consumes graphs in package form (.mcg) by simply dragging in the viewport
Automatic tool input generation
More artist friendly operator/compound naming and categorization
New Node Properties window with better operator/compound descriptions
78 new operators
---------------------------
Motion paths:

Previews the path of animated objects directly in the viewport. You can adjust motion paths using transforms, and convert them to and from splines
---------------------------
State sets:

SlateSDK based UI gives you a more consistent look and functionality
New node based render pass management
---------------------------
Chamfer modifier:

Chamfering now supports quad intersection to control how corners are affected when multiple edges connect to the same vertex. Also applies to the Edit Poly Chamfer tool
---------------------------
Alembic

Visibility track support and shape suffix management has been added via MAXScript

It's kinda sad, that they list "Ongoing Hi-DPI icon conversion" as a feature. Should have been a 2017 "feature"

2017-04-13, 10:10:42
Reply #7

romullus

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Did they forgot to mention redesigned splash screen? That would be easily 20% more feature rich release! :]
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.
R.I.P. Niki Lauda

2017-04-13, 20:21:50
Reply #8

maru

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So far my two favourite features:
1) The icons on the "next steps" page. Someone could defend them saying that they were supposed to look like this, but to me they just look like they were made in ms paint by a 10 year old.
2) (related) If you stay on that page long enough, you will get a 404 inside 3ds Max. At least it happens here.

2017-04-14, 06:18:44
Reply #9

Benny

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It's ironic how Adobe pushed subscription as an advantage for the user in that now they didn't have to wait for the next release with new features when it is exactly the opposite, now they no incentive all to be ready with something, no deadlines, no pressure, nada.

2017-04-14, 10:35:59
Reply #10

orenvfx

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3ds max 2018 is out but with The worst update in history of 3dsmax

peoples say they fill that the end of 3ds max is get close to us... (like soft image).

so corona - max artist... what you think?

corona developer i know you go hard on the c4d side too but also you make hard work on 3dsmax .. you know something that we dont know about the future of 3dsmax?

if not... its not a good develop work that go for nothing?

answers are welcome

2017-04-14, 10:50:45
Reply #11

Ondra

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corona developer i know you go hard on the c4d side too but also you make hard work on 3dsmax .. you know something that we dont know about the future of 3dsmax?
We dont know anything you dont, except what is in the beta program, and even if we did, we couldnt share it because of NDA ;).

If you are aiming in the direction "Autodesk is going to kill 3dsmax" - they won't. Autodesk is publicly traded company, which means you can google their financials. Look it up to see how much 3ds max makes - that alone is rock solid argument for the fact that 3ds Max will be around for a loooong time.

BTW: recently I learned that maya people have exactly the same fears - "autodesk is going to kill maya". And they are using those financials same way 3dsmax crowd is using the release announcements - to perpetuate fear and uncertainty.

So 3ds Max will be around indefinitely, question is how much better it will get in the future. From our perspective, developing in 3ds max API is pain, but we managed to learn, tame, and control it. Developing for Cinema 4D is pain for different reasons, and we have not yet mastered and conquered that API :/.
Rendering is magic.
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2017-04-14, 11:18:07
Reply #12

nkilar

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@Ondra,

Not to derail the thread but I always wondered what kind of differences are there in working with these two APIs? Is it the messed up structure, poor documentation or just a flat out closed system on each side?

2017-04-14, 13:05:55
Reply #13

Ondra

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combination of all. The problems we encountered so far with various systems:

  • Documentation flat out missing - imagine having all button labels removed from 3dsmax - you would have to basically try every button to blindly find out what it does. 3dsmax did this for few years (around 2011 release), fortunately they dont do it anymore. Cinema4D does this often
  • Documentation omitting important stuff - who frees the memory? Is this function safe to call from multiple threads? Are we supposed to call this notification before each render, or only once per animation sequence? ...  3ds Max does this often, which leads to subtle bugs
  • Missing API for certain parts of the software/not powerful enough - such as hair&fur, network rendering, ... - makes developers either unable to implement some features, or they have to do it by themselves, which is extra unnecessary work. This is common in Cinema4D and sketchup (in sketchup there is basically nothing and sofware developers have to reinvent everything by themselves - like material editor)
  • API making things hard to do for developers - this is case of C4D, many things are overcomplicated and error prone - even when there is proper documentation, following it may be hard because the system is just too complex and awkward on the inside
  • API is not good fit for Corona - For example maya shaders are made for realtime renderers, not raytracers. 3dsmax shaders are made for offline renderers, not interactive ones. Cinema4D has its own frame buffer while corona relies heavily on its own VFB.
  • Software generally being unstable - 3ds max ;)
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2017-04-14, 17:40:09
Reply #14

nkilar

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Thanks Ondra, I appreciate it. Always cool to get some insight on that :)

2017-04-20, 18:22:36
Reply #15

steyin

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Another dud eh? I'm still on 2014; I found 2016 too buggy for me, and I could never get the MCG updates to install (or extension 1, whatever the package was called). That's my only incentive to move on from 14 as the MCG seems cool, but alas it seems I'll never get to use any of it.

2017-08-31, 20:06:19
Reply #16

Frood

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Good Luck... ;)



Never underestimate the power of a well placed level one spell.

2017-08-31, 22:05:57
Reply #17

davemahi

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In our experience Max 2018 has been great. I would in no way go back to other versions. I would rather just stop doing 3D at that point. There have been so many good improvements since 2014 you are crazy to still be on that. Just my opinion though, I know everyone has specific needs.

2017-09-06, 09:53:41
Reply #18

AndyQ

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if this is the complete list of improvements, this is s**t, pay,pay,pay......
http://www.cgchannel.com/2017/04/autodesk-ships-3ds-max-2018/

It is lame, and they've been lame for the past decade or more as far as I'm concerned, but I will say that this 2018 version seems to perform better with Corona for me Maybe that's something to do with my specific system, I'm not talking render times but just using the UI; the time it takes to display the render setup dialog, the compact material editor, minor things like that. The amount of money they charge each year is ridiculous for the improvements they make - this really is nothing more than a rental, except unlike renting a house we can't decide to rent a better one next week without losing all our home-contents....

2017-10-04, 12:22:26
Reply #19

clemens_at

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2017-10-04, 13:15:23
Reply #20

alexyork

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Autodesk have recently started listening to users' requests a lot more these days, I have to say. A year or so ago I posted a request on there for background max file saving, like Photoshop does, so auto-save doesn't interrupt your work any more, and they're actually apparently testing and potentially implementing it, and improving the whole file save time and size process as well.

It's 100% worthwhile making posts on there with suggestions.
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2017-10-12, 12:47:01
Reply #21

alexyork

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Is anyone else experiencing the issue that you pretty much have to click or drag or enter text fields in max twice for anything to happen? E.g. if you go into the dimensions of an object, click and drag the contents of the box, you expect it to be highlighted so you can change the value. But it doesn't.... you have to click in it manually first, or click + drag twice. This is happening for all of us in the studio...
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2017-10-12, 12:53:41
Reply #22

johan belmans

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All the time. we even have unexpected crashes. ..... getting annoyed of Max........

2017-10-12, 12:58:44
Reply #23

johan belmans

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Even panning in 2D zoom mood (Physical and Corona camera)  became a struggle.

2017-10-12, 13:02:10
Reply #24

alexyork

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Even panning in 2D zoom mood (Physical and Corona camera)  became a struggle.

This was misbehaving for us too initially, until reboots. Now it seems ok. But I think once the coronacamera is out, we can relax.... ? :)
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2017-11-02, 18:49:41
Reply #25

3di

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I hear Houdini is picking up pace in the industry.  Might have to give it a try.

2017-11-02, 22:54:50
Reply #26

peterguthrie

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Is anyone else experiencing the issue that you pretty much have to click or drag or enter text fields in max twice for anything to happen? E.g. if you go into the dimensions of an object, click and drag the contents of the box, you expect it to be highlighted so you can change the value. But it doesn't.... you have to click in it manually first, or click + drag twice. This is happening for all of us in the studio...

YES! incredibly annoying. The number of times I have accidentally started a render :(

2017-11-03, 09:36:30
Reply #27

maru

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Is anyone else experiencing the issue that you pretty much have to click or drag or enter text fields in max twice for anything to happen? E.g. if you go into the dimensions of an object, click and drag the contents of the box, you expect it to be highlighted so you can change the value. But it doesn't.... you have to click in it manually first, or click + drag twice. This is happening for all of us in the studio...

YES! incredibly annoying. The number of times I have accidentally started a render :(

For me this is happening only in Max 2018, and only in the Render Setup window. So if I, for example, stop rendering in the VFB, and then jump back to Render Setup to change some value, I have to click anywhere inside it first. It's like changing focus to that window first, before anything else can be done.

2017-11-03, 10:19:56
Reply #28

alexyork

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I'm actually having a live teamviewer session with Autodesk support in an hour, and I will show them this behaviour. Although I can't imagine they're not aware of it already. I'm going to run them through all the other stupid issues we've come across too such as the terrible camera selection.
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2017-11-03, 11:54:54
Reply #29

johan belmans

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so many issues with MAX, and we still keep on paying...........

2017-11-03, 12:26:27
Reply #30

alexyork

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Well I just got off the phone with max tech support and they are now aware of the Render Setup Dialog not taking focus on mousedown (seems it only "takes" when you do mouseup), so fingers crossed that gets fixed.

They are already aware of the fact that you can't just click and select physical cameras without their targets being selected too, and are fixing it soon.

They are also aware of the issues we have with slow 4k UI response and the fact that the UI icon colours are really hard to tell apart, so the icons all look the same. Think they might tweak this down the line.

I also put some requests in for improvements to the map/material browser. Hope they listen.

For the Corona guys:

There was one issue which I think might be something for the Corona guys to address - draw a daylight system, use a coronasun, and now try to click and select the sun - doesn't work. Now drag a small selection box around the sun - doesn't work. Now drag a really big selection box around the sun - works. So there's an issue here. Doesn't happen with standard max sun, only corona sun.
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2017-11-03, 15:48:47
Reply #31

Juraj Talcik

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Quote
slow 4k UI

This is for real ?

I pondered about updating from 2016 just to get crisp, well-scaled HighDPI look. That would be super ironic if it doesn't even perform well.
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2017-11-03, 15:57:24
Reply #32

alexyork

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Quote
slow 4k UI

This is for real ?

I pondered about updating from 2016 just to get crisp, well-scaled HighDPI look. That would be super ironic if it doesn't even perform well.

It's... ok. The viewports are generally alright most of the time but moving the UI around and opening stuff is a bit sluggish compared to 2016.

I would say wait for the next hotfix and if they fix these main issues then it woul dbe worth upgrading. But frankly the 2016 UI was ok at UHD with 1.5x windows scaling on anyway... the new 2018 icons are shit. Really hard to see the difference between them. They're not colourful enough IMO.
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2017-11-03, 16:01:56
Reply #33

pokoy

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I don't think there's going to be a 2018 UI update, changing the UI code may introduce a lot of problems so it's more likely that only future versions will see improvements in that area. IIRC, the logic is that problems/issues with new features (such as the UI) aren't regressions hence no fixes in Product Updates, only in full releases.

2017-11-03, 16:03:39
Reply #34

davemahi

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Is anyone else experiencing the issue that you pretty much have to click or drag or enter text fields in max twice for anything to happen? E.g. if you go into the dimensions of an object, click and drag the contents of the box, you expect it to be highlighted so you can change the value. But it doesn't.... you have to click in it manually first, or click + drag twice. This is happening for all of us in the studio...

YES! incredibly annoying. The number of times I have accidentally started a render :(

For me this is happening only in Max 2018, and only in the Render Setup window. So if I, for example, stop rendering in the VFB, and then jump back to Render Setup to change some value, I have to click anywhere inside it first. It's like changing focus to that window first, before anything else can be done.

I have reported this bug to Autodesk. I talked with the UI designer and they are aware of this. I really feel they are listening, so if you have problems get in touch, or better yet sign up to be on the beta.

2017-11-03, 16:12:13
Reply #35

alexyork

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Is anyone else experiencing the issue that you pretty much have to click or drag or enter text fields in max twice for anything to happen? E.g. if you go into the dimensions of an object, click and drag the contents of the box, you expect it to be highlighted so you can change the value. But it doesn't.... you have to click in it manually first, or click + drag twice. This is happening for all of us in the studio...

YES! incredibly annoying. The number of times I have accidentally started a render :(

For me this is happening only in Max 2018, and only in the Render Setup window. So if I, for example, stop rendering in the VFB, and then jump back to Render Setup to change some value, I have to click anywhere inside it first. It's like changing focus to that window first, before anything else can be done.

I have reported this bug to Autodesk. I talked with the UI designer and they are aware of this. I really feel they are listening, so if you have problems get in touch, or better yet sign up to be on the beta.

If you've already reported this then this is concerning, because the tech support chap I spoke to this morning had no idea about this bug. So something's not right there. I feel like this happens often with Autodesk. Left hand not talking to the right.

In the case of this UI bug, it's a bug for sure and not a feature request - no other dialog suffers from this issue as far as I can tell - so I'm hopeful it will make it into a hotfix. The UI icon colours etc.. yeh, 2019+ at best.
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2017-11-03, 17:15:35
Reply #36

peterguthrie

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yep, I think that is exactly the problem Alex. is there a thread on the area forum where I can contribute? (will try to remain calm... promise)

2017-11-03, 18:00:26
Reply #37

alexyork

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yep, I think that is exactly the problem Alex. is there a thread on the area forum where I can contribute? (will try to remain calm... promise)

The best thing to do is probably fill out their bug report form. I just can't imagine that nobody on their internal development team or on their beta test/QA didn't spot this... We all spotted it in the first 5 mins of installing 2018 haha
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2017-11-05, 11:40:36
Reply #38

peterguthrie

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submitted a report, lets see if anything happens... (not holding my breath)

2017-11-07, 22:41:50
Reply #39

kellymic

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@peter: I see two defects logged under your email address. 

#1 - File save issue, verified.  For future reference the defect id is MAXX-35755.

#2 - Render dialog click issue.  In our list of defects to be triaged, QA will review it soon.  Defect id is BSPR-29624.

@alexyork and others - If you are interested in joining the 3ds Max beta you can apply here:

https://beta.autodesk.com/key/3dsMaxBetaApplication
Kelly Michels
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Media & Entertainment Division Beta Manager - Autodesk

2017-11-07, 22:52:28
Reply #40

kellymic

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On the primary topic of this thread, how do you folks feel about the features in 3ds Max 2018 now that the three updates are out? 

We are working hard on quality, new features, and listening to you as well. 


Kelly Michels
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Senior 3ds Max QA / Beta Manager
Media & Entertainment Division Beta Manager - Autodesk

2017-11-08, 07:49:48
Reply #41

nkilar

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On the primary topic of this thread, how do you folks feel about the features in 3ds Max 2018 now that the three updates are out? 

We are working hard on quality, new features, and listening to you as well.

Personally (I am primarily a c4d user) I think the 2018 releases were quite great to be honest. What caught my attention was that every release had an update to a really usable tool (Splines, Motion Paths (long overdue, heh), PathDeform update, QT5 and obviously fluids). Some of these things were also suggested by users in the forums which is a big plus to me.

What I really really like is you guys being active in the community and listening to  it - just like what you are doing right now. Kudos for that!

My biggest concern, as always, are still your overlords (Autodesk). The track record has been spotty to say the least. By far the biggest issue for me though are the subscriptions - I just have a really hard time getting aboard with that.

Obviously the two statements above are probably nothing you can do about it but still :) From a pure software standpoint I  like the progress this year. Good work :)
« Last Edit: 2017-11-08, 07:59:40 by nkilar »

2017-11-08, 10:12:37
Reply #42

alexyork

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On the primary topic of this thread, how do you folks feel about the features in 3ds Max 2018 now that the three updates are out? 

We are working hard on quality, new features, and listening to you as well.

We're just disappointed that 2018 has broken so many key basic features that were totally solid in 2016. We historically always skip the "odd" versions of max, which are always the more feature-packed experimental releases, in favour of the "even" versions which follow, which until recently have been really solid, especially after a service pack or 2. But with 2018, and 3 SPs down, we're finding it to be far less stable, with a clunky and unreliable UI, slower and less responsive UI and viewports, and loads of annoying selection issues, and a bunch of bugs that have been reported literally years ago. It's frustrating that these issues are not resolved and retail releases are going out with such obvious problems that can't take any time at all to identify. We regret moving from 2016.
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2017-11-08, 11:20:43
Reply #43

Philip kelly

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And having to pay through the nose for it.
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2017-11-08, 20:58:42
Reply #44

kellymic

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We're just disappointed that 2018 has broken so many key basic features that were totally solid in 2016.

Please email me the issues you are referring to.  I apologize if you have already done this but I would like to be clear on all of this and take a look.
Kelly Michels
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Media & Entertainment Division Beta Manager - Autodesk

2017-11-08, 21:05:00
Reply #45

kellymic

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What I really really like is you guys being active in the community and listening to  it - just like what you are doing right now. Kudos for that!

Great to hear!

My biggest concern, as always, are still your overlords (Autodesk). The track record has been spotty to say the least. By far the biggest issue for me though are the subscriptions - I just have a really hard time getting aboard with that.

Obviously the two statements above are probably nothing you can do about it but still :) From a pure software standpoint I  like the progress this year. Good work :)

Yeah, subscriptions and such are not something I work on. I can say though that there is a genuine and real commitment to 3ds Max and our group.  Everyone I work with are passionate and driven to continue putting our best into it.
« Last Edit: 2017-11-08, 21:49:01 by kellymic »
Kelly Michels
kelly.michels@autodesk.com
Senior 3ds Max QA / Beta Manager
Media & Entertainment Division Beta Manager - Autodesk

2017-11-08, 23:01:13
Reply #46

iancamarillo

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On the primary topic of this thread, how do you folks feel about the features in 3ds Max 2018 now that the three updates are out? 

We are working hard on quality, new features, and listening to you as well.

I like how 2018 file menu is back to the old style. But if you use the ALT+f, then the letter of the command, it does not execute the command. You have to hit Enter after it's highlighted. It sounds unimportant and not a priority but I am constantly resetting files, create new files and on many different computers. So utilizing the stock default environment is my only possibility, no customization for me. So if the plan was to revert back to the old menu, it's not quite there yet

2017-11-09, 09:24:04
Reply #47

johan belmans

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We're just disappointed that 2018 has broken so many key basic features that were totally solid in 2016.

Please email me the issues you are referring to.  I apologize if you have already done this but I would like to be clear on all of this and take a look.

The biggest issue is that Autodesk unilateral broke up the contract between them and their clients, us.
We want our perpetual licenses back!

2017-11-09, 10:06:45
Reply #48

NicolasC

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We are working hard on quality, new features, and listening to you as well.

Hello,

Nice to see someone from Autodesk around !
So if you really listen to users, please consider something: take a break from the new features, and focus HARD on stability / performance / bugs fixes. You'd be surprised how users would be delighted. We're about to jump from 2016 to 2018 in the next weeks (because of obscures licensing stuff), and I must admitt I'm a bit anxious.
As a user working on 3dsmax since v2.5, I'd be please to give feedback. So far, really disappointed on what 3dsmax has become (or not become ;) ).

Thanks,

Best regards.
« Last Edit: 2017-11-09, 10:11:21 by NicolasC »
Nicolas Caplat

3d Dept Manager / Intangibles Assets Design / Paris

2017-11-09, 10:38:44
Reply #49

alexyork

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We're just disappointed that 2018 has broken so many key basic features that were totally solid in 2016.

Please email me the issues you are referring to.  I apologize if you have already done this but I would like to be clear on all of this and take a look.

Your colleague Raiden from tech support has been on the case with me for a few days, dealing with these issues. We have some tracker codes for a couple of them and the rest are under investigation. Cheers :)
Alex York
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