Author Topic: Like"FStorm GeoPattern" corona pattern  (Read 8797 times)

2018-04-13, 22:42:03

arqrenderz

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Hi, this is something big, it takes a very small amount of memory, CAN have uvw coordinates, and its fast!

(info taken from fstorm facebook)
If we could uvw  a corona scatter will be awesome

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2018-04-14, 02:11:22
Reply #1

agentdark45

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I saw this too on facebook. Would be INSANELY useful to have.

That F-Storm dev is a machine, putting out features daily.
Vray who?

2018-04-16, 17:52:11
Reply #2

maru

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It looks quite impressive, but can you guys share some ideas how this could be utilized in real scenes? (not just demoing the feature)

2018-04-17, 03:03:42
Reply #3

arqrenderz

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If we could Uvw a corona scatter it would be possible to create rugs (very easy and low memory, fur is not for EVERY kind of rug)
Uvw maped grass or anything else.

2018-04-17, 08:46:33
Reply #4

Philip kelly

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I saw this too on facebook. Would be INSANELY useful to have.

That F-Storm dev is a machine, putting out features daily.

The Corona team have been putting up new builds every night also..........and have been for years...........
Dell Precision T7910

2018-04-17, 09:57:21
Reply #5

Christa Noel

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that Fstorm-GeoPattern looks just like uvw mapping in hair n fur and in forest pack doesnt it?

The Corona team have been putting up new builds every night also..........and have been for years...........

i was writing almost the same words as yours but you post it first nicely. :)
i remember when corona was in alpha stage, many people saw Ondra release fixes, changes, new features everyday and they wasnt really wrong when they thought he never sleep.. i even thought he wasnt from earth

btw, i got a stupid thing in my head, if ChaosGroup bought Corona is really real so it will not be possible to if one day Corona do it to fStorm too in nearest future. :D

2018-04-17, 10:06:09
Reply #6

NicolasC

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that Fstorm-GeoPattern looks just like uvw mapping in hair n fur and in forest pack doesnt it?
Exactly what I thought when I first saw the demo.
Plus I'm getting a bit tired of people always asking for the brand new feature presented by others, but it's just my point of view. That doesn't mean any roadmap never needs to be adjusted but come on ...
Nicolas Caplat

3d Dept Manager / Intangibles Assets Design / Paris

2018-04-17, 14:06:23
Reply #7

agentdark45

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It looks quite impressive, but can you guys share some ideas how this could be utilized in real scenes? (not just demoing the feature)

First real world example I can think of would be making wicker chairs. Model the base geometry of the chair, then model a patch of wicker and use Geo pattern to tile/deform/weld the wicker to the chair mesh shape whilst keeping the memory footprint to that of the small patch of wicker.

Second example: chain links/chain mail.
Vray who?

2018-04-17, 14:21:50
Reply #8

Ondra

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Rendering is magic.
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2018-04-17, 14:55:33
Reply #9

romullus

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I might be wrong, but i think it's the same guy (Karba?), who did create vraypattern and Fstorm/geopattern.

First real world example I can think of would be making wicker chairs. Model the base geometry of the chair, then model a patch of wicker and use Geo pattern to tile/deform/weld the wicker to the chair mesh shape whilst keeping the memory footprint to that of the small patch of wicker.

Second example: chain links/chain mail.

If geopattern uses UVs for distribution, then something very similar can be achieved with Corona scatter, except for texture colour derived from distribution mesh.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2018-04-17, 19:02:23
Reply #10

arcmos

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Quote
I might be wrong, but i think it's the same guy (Karba?), who did create vraypattern and Fstorm/geopattern.

Bingo!

2018-04-19, 19:32:42
Reply #11

Fluss

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I might be wrong, but i think it's the same guy (Karba?), who did create vraypattern and Fstorm/geopattern.

Indeed, it's the same guy. He developed it when he was working at icube but it's not the owner of the software.

I'm a bit disappointed by some people's reaction... This is extremely useful! If that can be done with Cscatter then show us an exemple, i'd be curious to see that! Pls recreate that curtain with Cscatter and show us the result.

No matter if you are close or far from the object, it will always look better than an opacity mapped texture and it's cheaper in term of calculation. Look at the curtain, simple material, no memory cost, anisotropy resolve by itself etc etc... I was a user of Vraypattern and I would kill to get that feature in corona! Basically it replace displacement for patterns and it's way cheaper, can be viewed from both sides, no need to mess with geometry shifting etc...









« Last Edit: 2018-04-19, 20:11:46 by Fluss »

2018-04-19, 21:58:55
Reply #12

romullus

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If geopattern uses UVs for distribution, then something very similar can be achieved with Corona scatter, except for texture colour derived from distribution mesh.

I take my words back. I tried to replicate that curtain example, but i failed. Corona scatter strictly follows distribution mesh normals and doesn't care about scattered mesh continuation. And it eats RAM quite significantly - i scattered 8 billions pieces and it ate majority of my 16GB RAM. No match for Vray/Fstorm-pattern :]
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2018-04-19, 22:17:15
Reply #13

PROH

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@Fluss: Great examples. Would absolutely love to have this in Corona, or something similar :)

2018-04-20, 04:25:46
Reply #14

Christa Noel

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Indeed, it's the same guy. He developed it when he was working at icube but it's not the owner of the software.
wow
I'm a bit disappointed by some people's reaction... This is extremely useful! If that can be done with Cscatter then show us an exemple, i'd be curious to see that! Pls recreate that curtain with Cscatter and show us the result.
i hope it wasnt my reaction :)
i just prepared things to try it with cScatter but i see romulus post and cancelled my try immediately. then, i think this "GeoPattern" will be a great feature to have in our corona.

2018-04-20, 08:05:03
Reply #15

NicolasC

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I might be wrong, but i think it's the same guy (Karba?), who did create vraypattern and Fstorm/geopattern.

Indeed, it's the same guy. He developed it when he was working at icube but it's not the owner of the software.

I'm a bit disappointed by some people's reaction... This is extremely useful! If that can be done with Cscatter then show us an exemple, i'd be curious to see that! Pls recreate that curtain with Cscatter and show us the result.

No matter if you are close or far from the object, it will always look better than an opacity mapped texture and it's cheaper in term of calculation. Look at the curtain, simple material, no memory cost, anisotropy resolve by itself etc etc... I was a user of Vraypattern and I would kill to get that feature in corona! Basically it replace displacement for patterns and it's way cheaper, can be viewed from both sides, no need to mess with geometry shifting etc...

Ok ok your arguments and the examples you provide are pretty convincing TBH. Gets my vote :)
Nicolas Caplat

3d Dept Manager / Intangibles Assets Design / Paris

2018-04-25, 10:24:49
Reply #16

nkilar

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This looks like a pretty great feature, especially for arch-viz jobs. Definitely a +1 from me :)

2018-04-26, 11:17:02
Reply #17

bluebox

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This is a killer feature for Fstorm.

Hyper realistic looking (and almost with no memory consumption) things that are hard to do now properly like towels, wicker chairs, perforated steel panels, cloth etc. etc. would be a breeze !

Personally I'd put this feature over caustics ant other stuff in the line.

2018-04-26, 12:22:31
Reply #18

Christa Noel

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can somebody here share some numbers of comparation?
i guess everyone here would like to know how low GeoPattern memory consumption compared to corona scatter or other scatter plugin like forest pack
thanks

2018-04-26, 12:50:49
Reply #19

bluebox

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Sorry but what is the point of such comparison ? Since CScatter is unable to deliver comparable results and ate almost all of Romulus's RAM when he tried to simulate a sinlge curtain ?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=563960510657687&set=pcb.1811049615858115&type=3&ifg=1

1.600.000.000.000 polys - 1,2GB Vram

Asuming that even without geo pattern active that scene would take some Vram then I think it is safe to say that it eats almost no memory in comparison to scatter solutions like Cscatter/ForestPack not to mention displacement.

2018-04-26, 14:18:37
Reply #20

romullus

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My guess is that somehow Fstorm pattern doesn't need to store transformational info in RAM, while Corona scatter does have to, otherwise it would consume virtually no RAM too. Curious to see how Itoo railclone does in that regard...
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2018-04-26, 20:09:57
Reply #21

bluebox

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I will just leave this here for all those who do not follow Fstorm facebook group  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215676342559602&set=pcb.1813294842300259&type=3

2018-04-26, 20:20:13
Reply #22

pokoy

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I will just leave this here for all those who do not follow Fstorm facebook group  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215676342559602&set=pcb.1813294842300259&type=3
Hell I could use that right now for my 10 square km area of grass. If doable for Corona devs, not a bad addition at all.

2018-04-27, 04:14:26
Reply #23

Christa Noel

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Sorry but what is the point of such comparison ? Since CScatter is unable to deliver comparable results and ate almost all of Romulus's RAM when he tried to simulate a sinlge curtain ?
yeah bluebox you're right, not comparable with cScatter :) but how about vrayPattern or forestPack? i dont have both plugin but is it still comparable?
thanks for share fStorm facebook link, but anyway, fStorm smokes the competition again

2018-04-27, 09:44:25
Reply #24

bluebox

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I do not own vrayPattern, but I do own ForestPro and it is the same story as Cscatter.

Even if you decide to scatter your geometry and allign it to surface normall you still won't get continuous mesh if the base mesh you are scattering on is not dense enough.
Even if it was that would be super cumbersome to setup each time. Not even close to that geopattern aproach.

I'm not a coder and dont know the code behind it, but to me it is clear that scattering solutions are a totaly different pair of shoes than this Geothing and can't be compared.

Possibilities are endless with this thing. Imagine scattering tiny pieces of bark on your tree trunks etc.

Next tests by Andrey Kozlov: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=566290460424692&set=pcb.1812985592331184&type=3&ifg=1

And yeah, Fstorm is awesome, pity that current generation of affordable GPUs dont have that extra 8GB of Vram. But I believe that thanks to this kind of plugins full switch to GPU is within reach soon, even for people working on really large and demanding archviz scenes :)

2018-04-27, 09:46:46
Reply #25

Fluss

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Sorry but what is the point of such comparison ? Since CScatter is unable to deliver comparable results and ate almost all of Romulus's RAM when he tried to simulate a sinlge curtain ?
yeah bluebox you're right, not comparable with cScatter :) but how about vrayPattern or forestPack? i dont have both plugin but is it still comparable?
thanks for share fStorm facebook link, but anyway, fStorm smokes the competition again

This is the same as Vraypattern but it's not comparable to any scatter. to put it in a nutshell, it's a mix between displacement and scatter. Find more info about how it's processed on the VrayPattern manual :
http://docs.rendering.ru/en:vraypattern

edit : I suspect Fstorm displacement to use the same tech as it does not subdivide geometry as said in the documentation. That would explain why it is so much RAM efficient
« Last Edit: 2018-04-27, 11:40:40 by Fluss »

2018-04-27, 10:19:34
Reply #26

Christa Noel

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god i'm so speechless..
i believe Ondra will shows his hand at the next pre-v3 daily build for this stupid GeoPattern :)
« Last Edit: 2018-05-03, 06:37:29 by Christa Noel »

2018-05-03, 00:33:32
Reply #27

steyin

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2018-05-12, 10:51:13
Reply #28

Monkeybrother

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Did a search for "geopattern" to see if anyone had asked for something similar and of course you had. Just wanted to +10 this. It would make a huge difference in realism if you could replace displacement/bump/opacity maps/etc with actual geometry at almost no cost. Have been watching the FStorm facebook group with jealousy.

2018-05-15, 15:21:55
Reply #29

Eddoron

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2018-05-15, 19:34:45
Reply #30

serch

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2018-05-16, 11:52:13
Reply #31

urbanite

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+1. It would be great to get the feedback from devs if it is possible in near future

2018-05-16, 18:16:08
Reply #32

agentdark45

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Have to +1 this again.

Been testing this out in F-Storm and it is crazy useful. Some people on the facebook group are even using it to simulate actual fabric weave threads on sofa's e.t.c instead of bump mapping with very little performance hit.
Vray who?

2018-05-17, 07:49:36
Reply #33

nkilar

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Have to +1 this again.

Been testing this out in F-Storm and it is crazy useful. Some people on the facebook group are even using it to simulate actual fabric weave threads on sofa's e.t.c instead of bump mapping with very little performance hit.

I agree, it is super useful but are you sure there is little to no performance hit? I think a few people have said there is a ray tracing penalty when doing fabrics...

2018-05-17, 20:08:19
Reply #34

ikercito

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Here's a tutorial on one of the many benefits of Geopattern... Looks fantastic!


2018-06-11, 10:39:22
Reply #35

jpjapers

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2018-06-13, 15:09:54
Reply #36

Alexandre Besson

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2018-07-26, 10:04:06
Reply #37

arnonrs

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Amazing feature! +1
Would be very useful

2018-07-26, 16:46:42
Reply #38

ronaldjung

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2018-07-26, 17:00:55
Reply #39

NicolasC

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+1 for me as well :)
Nicolas Caplat

3d Dept Manager / Intangibles Assets Design / Paris

2018-07-30, 06:23:49
Reply #40

Christa Noel

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i subscribed corona cards trello but there is still no geoPattern-like feature added in Corona RoadMap .. :'(

2018-07-30, 06:47:23
Reply #41

danio1011

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2018-07-30, 09:34:40
Reply #42

jjaz82

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2018-07-30, 13:00:34
Reply #43

rsi

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+1 I meet on almost every project a situation where it would serve me and be more efficient, faster and lighter than railclone or multiscatter/forest Pack, I imagine that it is very complicated to integrate and maybe not a priority for many, but for our productions, it would be very useful. Have a nice vacation, if you take some.

2018-08-10, 19:13:35
Reply #44

bluebox

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Ondra added geopattern to the poll in most wanted features topic. Vote here :) https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=96.0

2018-08-14, 16:27:15
Reply #45

oddvisionary

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+1. I attached an incredible exemple of GeoP with Fstorm. Credits in the screenshot itself.
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2018-08-14, 17:22:04
Reply #46

romullus

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Looking at the latest example, i wonder if object made with geo-pattern, can be textured or is it limited to colour/material of pattern object?
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2018-08-15, 00:36:51
Reply #47

oddvisionary

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Looking at the latest example, i wonder if object made with geo-pattern, can be textured or is it limited to colour/material of pattern object?

Seems like it's possible. Fstorm https://fstormrender.ru/fstorm-1-2-5

https://fstormrender.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/GeoPattern2_.jpg

https://fstormrender.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/GeoPattern1__.jpg
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2018-08-31, 13:12:03
Reply #48

jpjapers

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Is this something that may be actively worked on in future?
It seems like one of those things that its the way forward in terms of not having to fake complex materials.
The pillow example above is incredible

2018-08-31, 16:39:05
Reply #49

archimi

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+1

I think I switch to Fstorm, because I really need this function for the type of images I'm doing.

2018-09-06, 21:15:09
Reply #50

vkiuru

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Frankly I'm amazed this one has slipped by every engine after it was again introduced in Vray, after all the help it gave in the form of VrayPattern. Bought it the second it was available and the memory handling was just beautiful. FYI as I recall, it's not a memory-friendly tool to substitute to scattering forests or the like, rather very efficient for close up details like fabric of the like. Anything on the foreground benefitted of the original one and the forest patterns were on par with the usual pattern mehods.  I mean it is really efficient with memory usage but don't expect it to be any better when scattering large areas. That's how it's been with Vray and  FStorm, at least :)

2018-09-07, 13:51:48
Reply #51

Juraj Talcik

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Genial feature.

Reason it slipped because it was poorly presented. I remember I had absolutely no clue what would it be good for ? It was presented using weird demos of tiling facades (british terraced streets,etc..).
There is reason why it became abadonware, no one bought it and the dude didn't continue development like everything else he started (multiscatter,etc..).

But now that we know it's perfect for tiled micro-detail, the answer is big yes please. Want +1
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2018-09-13, 17:05:59
Reply #52

jpjapers

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There has been no devs post in here since april but it remains one of the most popular request threads. Can anyone chime in on whether this feature could or might be implemented in future?

2018-09-13, 17:17:26
Reply #53

romullus

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Ondra has added geopattern to the most wanted features poll, so it's definitely has catched devs attention. You can cast your voice here: https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=96.0
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2018-09-13, 17:50:54
Reply #54

jpjapers

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Ondra has added geopattern to the most wanted features poll, so it's definitely has catched devs attention. You can cast your voice here: https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=96.0

Spot on thank you!

2019-01-09, 20:40:27
Reply #55

actrask

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2019-01-25, 09:21:48
Reply #56

gpz

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2019-02-06, 10:22:12
Reply #57

Tanakov

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Isn't this what vraypattern did? (https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=2354.msg17398#msg17398)

It is, so what is your stance on this feature today Ondra? Do you have time and resources?
Corona since 2014.06.02
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2019-02-11, 16:37:33
Reply #58

matsu

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2019-02-12, 11:50:53
Reply #59

jpjapers

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Extra crispy geopattern render from the fstorm fb group today


2019-02-12, 18:59:16
Reply #60

James Vella

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2019-02-13, 13:30:41
Reply #61

Ondra

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Since it is 13:27 already and still nobody today posted here:

+1000! ;)
Rendering is magic.
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2019-02-13, 14:24:21
Reply #62

romullus

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To everyone's attention! Since Ondra's +1 is actually multiplied by at least 1000, i would like to ask to restrain yourself from unnecessary +1's, as those won't change much anymore. From now on, minimal countable vote starts from +googol. Thank you! :]
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2019-02-13, 15:11:19
Reply #63

clemens_at

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well that escalated quickly...

in that case in all its beauty:

(+) 10.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 + 1

from me :)

2019-02-13, 19:13:57
Reply #64

fellazb

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It's over +9000!!!

2019-02-14, 18:16:41
Reply #65

actrask

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2019-06-21, 10:55:47
Reply #66

romullus

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Does anyone knows if geopattern can be converted to mesh? I've a task where i need to create complex shapes out of repeating patterns and looking for modelling aid tool. I'm also considering railclone, but it's much harder to master and i don't have much time for this assignement.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2019-06-21, 19:49:28
Reply #67

agentdark45

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Does anyone knows if geopattern can be converted to mesh? I've a task where i need to create complex shapes out of repeating patterns and looking for modelling aid tool. I'm also considering railclone, but it's much harder to master and i don't have much time for this assignement.

Unfortunately not. I've had a few jobs where I had to switch to FStorm from Corona purely for Geopattern usage. There are some limitations though - your base object UV mapping needs to be perfect, as does the "crop" box on the tile-able sampled pattern mesh to avoid visible open edges.
Vray who?

2019-06-21, 20:20:38
Reply #68

romullus

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Thanks for the answer, i guess i have to look at railclone now.
I'm not Corona Team member. Everything i say, is my personal opinion only.

2019-06-21, 21:14:23
Reply #69

Juraj Talcik

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Does anyone knows if geopattern can be converted to mesh? I've a task where i need to create complex shapes out of repeating patterns and looking for modelling aid tool. I'm also considering railclone, but it's much harder to master and i don't have much time for this assignement.

Unfortunately not. I've had a few jobs where I had to switch to FStorm from Corona purely for Geopattern usage. There are some limitations though - your base object UV mapping needs to be perfect, as does the "crop" box on the tile-able sampled pattern mesh to avoid visible open edges.

If your UVWs have stretched areas, the mesh with stretch like that too ?

BTW, no one answered me this yet but since you already tried Geopattern, didn't you try to install VrayPattern and render Corona scene in VrayNext ? Since VrayNext supports lot of Corona features, and also VrayPattern, wouldn't it work like this also ? I.e render scene with Corona materials&light in VrayNext, but apply VrayPattern on (I've no idea how you apply it, is it modifier or map...?).
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2019-06-22, 00:12:34
Reply #70

agentdark45

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If your UVWs have stretched areas, the mesh with stretch like that too ?


Yep, the pattern will stretch/conform to the base object UV's.
Vray who?

2019-06-22, 23:34:56
Reply #71

Tanakov

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Does anyone knows if geopattern can be converted to mesh? I've a task where i need to create complex shapes out of repeating patterns and looking for modelling aid tool. I'm also considering railclone, but it's much harder to master and i don't have much time for this assignement.

If I remember you were the one to suggest me RC years ago when I asked for the pattern! :D yzyzyzyz

Can you give more information on the task? There are ways to do "almost patterns"

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2019-06-22, 23:36:11
Reply #72

Tanakov

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Does anyone knows if geopattern can be converted to mesh? I've a task where i need to create complex shapes out of repeating patterns and looking for modelling aid tool. I'm also considering railclone, but it's much harder to master and i don't have much time for this assignement.

Unfortunately not. I've had a few jobs where I had to switch to FStorm from Corona purely for Geopattern usage. There are some limitations though - your base object UV mapping needs to be perfect, as does the "crop" box on the tile-able sampled pattern mesh to avoid visible open edges.



If your UVWs have stretched areas, the mesh with stretch like that too ?

BTW, no one answered me this yet but since you already tried Geopattern, didn't you try to install VrayPattern and render Corona scene in VrayNext ? Since VrayNext supports lot of Corona features, and also VrayPattern, wouldn't it work like this also ? I.e render scene with Corona materials&light in VrayNext, but apply VrayPattern on (I've no idea how you apply it, is it modifier or map...?).

I did for Alphas, Corona 1,2 and 3 never worked
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2019-06-23, 11:51:53
Reply #73

Juraj Talcik

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It's only since 4&5 that VrayNext supports CoronaMtl (and not sure which lights) and Corona VrayMtl. So it should theoretically work if you keep whole scene in Corona, maybe except the materials with GeoPattern (convert to VrayMTL), keep lights in CoronaLight, if doesn't work, convert those to Vray, results should always nearly match.

I need to test this but I don't have VrayNext...just 3.6.
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