Author Topic: 3ds Max 2015 features  (Read 16164 times)

2014-03-18, 19:11:50

DeadClown

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Sorry but I just had to post it here. I couldn't stop laughing :,-)

http://www.maxunderground.com/archives/20745_3ds_max_2015_features.html


(oh .. and the shitstorm has already begun :D )
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-18, 20:09:41
Reply #1

Ludvik Koutny

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Sorry but I just had to post it here. I couldn't stop laughing :,-)

http://www.maxunderground.com/archives/20745_3ds_max_2015_features.html


(oh .. and the shitstorm has already begun :D )

What's there to laugh at? I think it's really solid release. They finally focused on some of the bread & butter improvements rather than stretching their ambitions too far. You can finally use official scene manager instead of slow outliner script. Pflow nodes finally do not looks so crappy and confusing. Although MR is dead, the activeshade notification layer improvements benefit 3rd party renderers a lot. And mainly, Nitrous was already fast and solid in Max 2014, and now it got even faster!

2014-03-18, 20:24:07
Reply #2

DeadClown

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About the outliner replacement: I don't trust anything they say before I've tested it myself. They had a fucked up, unusable slate material/map browser in max for 2 versions, I wouldn't be surprised if this scene explorer thing is unusable too.
So what else...
- quadchamfer (I don't really have to say anything about it, do I?)
- haven't seen the pflow nodes anywhere yet, where can I have a look?
- Placement tool... jay
- Activeshade: didn't know 3rd party developers could benefit from that
- Python, point clouds - had these in max 2014 already, don't find python useful yet (maybe that has changed?)
- Nitrous got faster/fixed, fine, that was worth all the subscription money (?)

[edit] Oh and about stretching ambitions: They seem to have enough self-confidence to rise subscription prices.
« Last Edit: 2014-03-18, 20:40:48 by DeadClown »
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-18, 20:58:40
Reply #3

kumodot

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  What's the Big problem with Slate ? I am using it since version one, and have no problems with that at all. Forgetting the lack of "Open doors", Slate is way more pleasant to use than Maya Hypershader (ux, and Ui). IMO, of course. Python is the CORE to improve all the 3D Tools relations and stop that pointless "3d Tools Wars". You can do whaterver you want on the best tool and Python is here to help that integration and make unique tools that works on Maya, Max, Houdini and other Python-powered tools. This benefits every other tool.
    Viewport is the BottleNeck, you can't spend Resources investing on new "Wow" tools if you don't have a Good feedback, ADesk is targeting on the logical point.

     I am just waiting for Alembic. Nothing more. ;)

About the outliner replacement: I don't trust anything they say before I've tested it myself. They had a fucked up, unusable slate material/map browser in max for 2 versions, I wouldn't be surprised if this scene explorer thing is unusable too.
So what else...
- quadchamfer (I don't really have to say anything about it, do I?)
- haven't seen the pflow nodes anywhere yet, where can I have a look?
- Placement tool... jay
- Activeshade: didn't know 3rd party developers could benefit from that
- Python, point clouds - had these in max 2014 already, don't find python useful yet (maybe that has changed?)
- Nitrous got faster/fixed, fine, that was worth all the subscription money (?)

[edit] Oh and about stretching ambitions: They seem to have enough self-confidence to rise subscription prices.
« Last Edit: 2014-03-18, 21:11:32 by kumodot »
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2014-03-18, 20:59:27
Reply #4

Ondra

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I am at the point of just hoping they dont break anything that could be blamed at me, like the extremely slow texture loading in 2014 :D.
Rendering is magic.
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2014-03-18, 21:18:28
Reply #5

DeadClown

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  What's the Big problem with Slate. I am using it since version one, and have no problems with that at all.
Make 40k objects in max 2012 with 1(!) material and open the "new" material/map browser. I waited 20 minutes for it to just OPEN. Same thing done with the old material browser (which can be activated again by an ini setting) and it opens instantly.

Quote
Python is the CORE to improve all the 3D Tools relations and stop that pointless "3d Tools Wars". You can do whaterver you want on the best tool and Python is here to help that integration and make unique tools that works on Maya, Max, Houdini and other Python-powered tools. This benefits every other tool.
First of all, I doubt that python will help so much for that. Second, I don't want to use maya, houdini and whatnot and try to bring everything back to max. That's something for big studios with dozens of people. All of these tools cost a lot of money and a lot of experts to work with. Max is an allround DCC and it should be able to do all the basic tasks (not as good as all others combined of course, but still usable), no fucked-up curve editor, no fancy colorful UI nonsense, just tools to work with - and I don't see this happening at the moment. But Autodesk still wants me to pay like they did.
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-18, 21:38:03
Reply #6

Ludvik Koutny

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Of course quadchamfer is a great improvement. I can finally have stuff done right without having to pay for 3rd party plugin. Why would that be bad? It's still 1000* better if they finally add it, instead of telling us "Why would we do that when there's plugin for that already?"

Pflow nodes... have not seen them either. But i believe anything can be better than current state of how pFlow looks.

Placement tool is just a nice addition. Again, it's good when software core is strong, instead of having to use slow third party scripts or plugins.

And Python and pointclouds. This is great as well, because it shows that these things are being iterated upon. The state few years ago when they would just throw it in and let it rot was terrible. Not they show that they keep improving it.

And yes, to me, Nitrous speed is worth the money. Any reduction of lag saves me a LOT of time.

Do not take me wrong, i am not against you. And especially, i am usually not defending Autodesk. But this time, it seems they got it right. A lot better than Max loaded with new state of art features, but unusable for following 6 months and with all those legacy old bugs still rotting inside of it. :)


2014-03-18, 22:00:36
Reply #7

DeadClown

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Do not take me wrong, i am not against you. And especially, i am usually not defending Autodesk. But this time, it seems they got it right.
No worries, I don't feel pissed or something :D. I actually enjoy discussing these things and I may get a little heated when I do, but I don't mean to attack someone either ;-)


Quote
Of course quadchamfer is a great improvement. I can finally have stuff done right without having to pay for 3rd party plugin. Why would that be bad? It's still 1000* better if they finally add it, instead of telling us "Why would we do that when there's plugin for that already?"
Quote
Placement tool is just a nice addition. Again, it's good when software core is strong, instead of having to use slow third party scripts or plugins.
Sure it's good to have it, but for me it's not worth the money - especially if I have paid for the plugin already (which I most likely did when I'm interested in that). It may have been a good addition in a subscription pack or something but not the actual "new release".

Quote
And yes, to me, Nitrous speed is worth the money. Any reduction of lag saves me a LOT of time.
for 665 bucks a year O_o ?! (euro price without taxes here in germany). Less than 2 years saving that money and I can buy a complete Modo.

Quote
Pflow nodes... have not seen them either. But i believe anything can be better than current state of how pFlow looks.
My problem with that: At least it worked. Now it may not work anymore. I don't trust Autodesk to actually not break something when they try to be "creative"

« Last Edit: 2014-03-18, 22:05:04 by DeadClown »
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-18, 22:27:14
Reply #8

cecofuli

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It's very ridiculous version! O_O I'm shocked.  Maybe is the end if 3ds max?
One years of work for 5 enhancement and 3 new tools? Bah...

2014-03-18, 23:06:38
Reply #9

DeadClown

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It's very ridiculous version! O_O I'm shocked.  Maybe is the end if 3ds max?
One years of work for 5 enhancement and 3 new tools? Bah...

I think Max will stay on the market for a long time (unless all users suddenly stop paying for subscriptions and updates). There is absolutely no reason for Autodesk to kill max. It would be a lot more likely that they would kill maya. Max has way more licenses sold (factor 10) than maya and there are lots of people paying each year. So why should they kill it? They may stop develop useful stuff but they will ride that dead donkey until it's blown up into dust. Softimage was a different thing. There were relatively few users and still too much cost. Eliminating SI maximized their profit (even if some users do not switch to maya but to some other software package). They will also not kill Maya because they don't have a product which would attract those people (no, they wouldn't switch to max). So it will stay max & maya as long as people pay enough money each year.
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-18, 23:46:06
Reply #10

Chakib

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I still can't believe the new viewport speed of max 2015 compared to max 2014 :D, is this true ?

for the rest, Maya 2015 new features impressed me more ( that sexy bifrost and texture deformer & opensubdiv... )
« Last Edit: 2014-03-18, 23:50:17 by Chakib »

2014-03-18, 23:55:51
Reply #11

Juraj Talcik

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Make 40k objects in max 2012 with 1(!) material and open the "new" material/map browser. I waited 20 minutes for it to just OPEN. Same thing done with the old material browser (which can be activated again by an ini setting) and it opens instantly.


Hah, I didn't know this :- ) One thing that really pissed me off. Thanks, I'll implement it.

On other hand, I think it's staple that AD prices will keep being high with little features to compenstate for that. Seemingly it is like that. But, you ought to see AutoCad then... ;- )

I quite like what I see so far, placement tool seems gnarly ! That alone is pretty cool for me. Viewport improvement is always welcome. Yeah, it might be considered something that should be given, but realistically comparing viewport speeds of other CGI softs, are the other ones faster or even comparably fast ? Imho Max2014 is pretty great as it is.
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2014-03-19, 00:40:54
Reply #12

DeadClown

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Tadaaaa.... they updated their "What's new" pdf ;) Less pages now!
http://areadownloads.autodesk.com/oc/2015releases/Whats_New_in_Autodesk_3ds_Max_2015.pdf

And a pflow screenshot.
Apart from ugly colors I can't say what they have changed.
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-03-19, 02:34:10
Reply #13

Juraj Talcik

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Alright, just read Maya's .pdf. Now I see where people are coming off lol.

I like this comment from MaxUndeground (good discussion)

"Maybe that’s the problem – their userbase is so heavily skewed to other industries that – - no wait…if that were the case there would be pages and pages of new features for SOMEBODY". - See more at: http://www.maxunderground.com/archives/20745_3ds_max_2015_features.html#sthash.RMn6kInU.dpuf

I like to think that former too, that Max was dedicated to Design industry because AD did some math/statistics of its userbase (not being based around the "vocal user-base"). VFX/Media, is imho quite smaller than Design industry, which itself, is again, peanuts to construction industry (as illustrate by 9000+ variations of overpriced Cad/Revit renditions..). But even if that was the case, the progression is very, veeery small.

What actually happend to XBR project ? Is completely over ?
« Last Edit: 2014-03-19, 03:14:05 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2014-03-21, 16:34:05
Reply #14

steyin

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I can understand frustration from users who use MAX for animation, but really, as someone who does only ArchViz, MAX is fine as is. If they add/alter things that make my workflow/life easier or improve VP speed, etc, then great. If not, well I already manage fine. I just fail to see why those using it for animation keep complaining when Maya has always been superior for that over the last 10 years anyway, at least in my eyes. Maybe I'm ignorant or misinformed.

TBH, anything is better than the pile of crap 2013 was/is. I use it at my office and its slow, buggy and frustrating as hell to work with in a timely manner. 2014 at home has been peachy, so any improvements that actually work for 2015 will be nice.

Still, no matter how much they say it, I don't trust Autodesk to listen to their user base and understand why so many are jumping ship.

2014-10-22, 18:23:54
Reply #15

boumay

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Anyone experience a freeze (lag?) at viewport navigation start, in max 2015?
Everytime I stard a orbit/pan/zoom move, I have to wait one or two seconds before it begins to move. I have a gtx 780 so it's pretty powerful.
Any suggestion?
Thank you.

2014-10-22, 18:52:38
Reply #16

Juraj Talcik

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IT'SO F******** MISERABLE.

Man, what the hell, I mean, 2014 was so good right ?

It's the IDIOTIC LAYER MANAGER merged with scene states that's absolutely unusable for architectural scenes. Is it cool if you have 200 objects ? Absolutely, work almost like Onion manager, but the moment you have 2000+ objects,
it's not possible to do shit with it. It does exactly what you say, have small freeze/lag. When you close it, it gets better, but not even close to as good as 2014 was performance was.

It's shame, because the other new features like placement tool are godly but overall, horrible.

I am seriously keeping 2014, this is not worth to look at. Even with SP2 it's horrible, fucking horrible.
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2014-10-22, 19:08:25
Reply #17

DeadClown

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I'm kind of happy and kind of sad that my 3rd post in this thread more or less came true.

YES, 2015 is horrible - especially the layer manager (our  studio is not using 2015 mostly because of THIS!). I always ask myself if someone (of all those people doing demos at autodesk) has actually really used it - I seriously doubt it.
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

2014-10-22, 19:24:22
Reply #18

boumay

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ooh, bad news. I'm not alone then.
Thank you for your answers.

2014-10-22, 22:46:15
Reply #19

boumay

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It does exactly what you say, have small freeze/lag.

Are you using a 3dconnexion device?
I'm afraid it could be the cause, I'm checking right now.
« Last Edit: 2014-10-22, 22:50:27 by boumay »

2014-10-22, 22:59:49
Reply #20

Juraj Talcik

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It does exactly what you say, have small freeze/lag.

Are you using a 3dconnexion device?
I'm afraid it could be the cause, I'm checking right now.

I used to, but it did the very same thing :- D I never found a way how to configure drivers to make 3D Connexion work good in anything other than simple scene in 3dsMax.

Shame because I love it but I don't have patience to search the retarded Logitech forums (I hate them so much, I hate the company too).
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2014-10-22, 23:03:46
Reply #21

boumay

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Bad news for 3dconnexion users here!
The cause of the freeze/lag at the begining of the viewport move is caused by the 3dconnexion device! I removed it and the problem is gone.
I really hope 3dconnexion company do something for max users because the problem is old since many max versions and they didn't fix that.
If anyone has a workaround or a clue...

2014-10-22, 23:49:38
Reply #22

zzubnik

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It's a shame. I pointed it out to them and got a pretty pointless non-response. I love my navigator, but that lag when you start moving kills it.

2014-10-23, 09:31:24
Reply #23

Ludvik Koutny

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Layer manager in 2015 indeed sucks. But other than that, i am very happy with 2015 due to the hardware hit testing. It's a huge improvement. In 2014 and earlier versions, when you have scene with lots of polys and many high poly objects, selection feedback starts to slow down, and it can come all the way to situation where there's several seconds delay between mouse click, and object getting selected.

In 2015, with hardware hit testing, selection is instant, regardless of how complex the scene is. So i can finally work with car models supplied by manufacturer, which usually have about 5+ millions poly, since they are converted nurbs.

2014-10-23, 10:16:10
Reply #24

lacilaci

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Bad news for 3dconnexion users here!
The cause of the freeze/lag at the begining of the viewport move is caused by the 3dconnexion device! I removed it and the problem is gone.
I really hope 3dconnexion company do something for max users because the problem is old since many max versions and they didn't fix that.
If anyone has a workaround or a clue...

I believe that initial lag when you want to move with 3d mouse is caused when you are in "complex scene" or have some heavy models and before you start moving the 3d mouse needs to find a rotation center (I only experienced this lag in some heavier interior scenes)

However the solution is pretty simple, just switch in 3dconnexion menu (advanced) rotation center from "auto" to "use selected item"
Then if you have anything selected you will have no lag at all cause rotation center is already there.

Anyways, try to download latest drivers. I haven't had this problem for a long time even using auto mode in complex scenes recently.

2014-10-23, 12:03:07
Reply #25

boumay

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Bad news for 3dconnexion users here!
The cause of the freeze/lag at the begining of the viewport move is caused by the 3dconnexion device! I removed it and the problem is gone.
I really hope 3dconnexion company do something for max users because the problem is old since many max versions and they didn't fix that.
If anyone has a workaround or a clue...

I believe that initial lag when you want to move with 3d mouse is caused when you are in "complex scene" or have some heavy models and before you start moving the 3d mouse needs to find a rotation center (I only experienced this lag in some heavier interior scenes)

However the solution is pretty simple, just switch in 3dconnexion menu (advanced) rotation center from "auto" to "use selected item"
Then if you have anything selected you will have no lag at all cause rotation center is already there.

Anyways, try to download latest drivers. I haven't had this problem for a long time even using auto mode in complex scenes recently.

Thank you for your input. Yes the problem occurs when the poly count rises to high level, perhaps from 2 millions, or so, I'm not sure. But the fact is that we work with more complex scènes nowadays and hitting 2 millions polys is very easy, and working with 10 or more is also common. So that's a problem.
I'll try your tip of deselecting auto, I always have use selected item anyway, but sometimes I enable auto, so we'll see that.

2014-10-24, 05:11:06
Reply #26

Dom74

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You can try CTRL + middle button click when pointing on an object, this wil target the rotation center,even if you have another object selected, hope this can help.
I love my 3d mouse too, but drivers are a shame.

2014-10-24, 13:08:50
Reply #27

boumay

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You can try CTRL + middle button click when pointing on an object, this wil target the rotation center,even if you have another object selected, hope this can help.
I love my 3d mouse too, but drivers are a shame.
Thank you for the tip! :)

2015-01-28, 11:13:24
Reply #28

antanas

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IT'SO F******** MISERABLE.

Man, what the hell, I mean, 2014 was so good right ?

It's the IDIOTIC LAYER MANAGER merged with scene states that's absolutely unusable for architectural scenes. Is it cool if you have 200 objects ? Absolutely, work almost like Onion manager, but the moment you have 2000+ objects,
it's not possible to do shit with it. It does exactly what you say, have small freeze/lag. When you close it, it gets better, but not even close to as good as 2014 was performance was.

It's shame, because the other new features like placement tool are godly but overall, horrible.

I am seriously keeping 2014, this is not worth to look at. Even with SP2 it's horrible, fucking horrible.

Dead-thread but will post here too in case someone stumbles here:

Hi, probably you found that out already and it is just me who made that "big new discovery" just yesterday )) but here is small ini setting http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/3ds-Max-2015-Scene-explorer-find-toolbar-is-extremely-slow.html that reverts object selection to an oldschool one and makes using max 2015 a lot easier. Well at least for me object selection is fast and usable again and selecting over 9000 objects is once again a possible operation

2015-01-29, 06:43:58
Reply #29

boumay

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Thank you antanas for your worrying about others! Very useful.

2015-02-08, 19:29:50
Reply #30

nacho_grande

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IT'SO F******** MISERABLE.

Man, what the hell, I mean, 2014 was so good right ?

It's the IDIOTIC LAYER MANAGER merged with scene states that's absolutely unusable for architectural scenes. Is it cool if you have 200 objects ? Absolutely, work almost like Onion manager, but the moment you have 2000+ objects,
it's not possible to do shit with it. It does exactly what you say, have small freeze/lag. When you close it, it gets better, but not even close to as good as 2014 was performance was.

It's shame, because the other new features like placement tool are godly but overall, horrible.

I am seriously keeping 2014, this is not worth to look at. Even with SP2 it's horrible, fucking horrible.

Dead-thread but will post here too in case someone stumbles here:

Hi, probably you found that out already and it is just me who made that "big new discovery" just yesterday )) but here is small ini setting http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/3ds-Max-2015-Scene-explorer-find-toolbar-is-extremely-slow.html that reverts object selection to an oldschool one and makes using max 2015 a lot easier. Well at least for me object selection is fast and usable again and selecting over 9000 objects is once again a possible operation

That tip has totally saved me. I was enormously upset about this issue while having 2 x GTX980s in my WS. Thanks a lot! 2015 sucks all the way.
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