Author Topic: With all due respect to the Corona team  (Read 27640 times)

2016-10-29, 04:58:46
Reply #75

Benny

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This thread was interesting (in the beginning) as it displays the same two sides of the coin that I used to read in Vray threads. One category of users wants more control as they experiment more and is more personally invested in and interested in the technology. They may be pros going for cutting edge realism, or they are just very interested in this part of the process. The other category is more focused on generating the result, the compositing and the actual content. They want to spend time on the design of the image.

This whole thing is a little like the old days when some photographers loved the development part and spending time in the darkroom, tweaking the picture. Others loved the photography and the camera and dreaded the darkroom work, trying to get consistent results with as little effort as possible.

There are obviously concepts in Corona that requires understanding, just as all art. However, something like video editing in order to tell a story is extremely straight forward compared to even the simplest 3D tools. There are of course those working with special effects, but these individuals are interested in the technology and the effects themselves, pushing boundaries. For some reason the video editor and the sfx artist have very different tools and accept this, but the pragmatic viz artist that just wants to develop his picture always have to defend himself towards the more feature focused artist. A guy that produces 40 jobs a month is not seem as professional enough because he hasn't had time to learn all the complex intricacies and possibilities of Corona? That is absurd. For every new generation of 3D tools like Corona, a new generation of creators will enter, simply because it is now worth their time. You really shouldn't have to be a technician, an argument many find very healthy about Corona, but there is certainly a long way to go before it is a question of just pressing a button.

2016-10-29, 05:53:13
Reply #76

astudio

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Thank you, Benny, it was a great speech.

There is no label "For great artists only" on my Corona licenses. I am really not from a team, which may make tweaks glossy for hours and days. Super result after 2 weeks of work just bad result for me.  To be poor but proud is not a best thing in the world, I think.

I know to work with numbers and get result good enough for my clients in two hours. If there will be a new concept, I'll learn it. I do it for 20 years. Only thing, I'm looking for effective way. 

I have respect to artists absolutely. But they usually don't understand the word "efficiency". I met this a lot in my 20 years of experience.


2016-10-29, 06:45:38
Reply #77

philippelamoureux

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Man I've learned rendering with vray 2.0, back when there was so many god damn buttons and things to tweak everywhere. I'm just happy with where corona is. Not too hard but enough control to do what I need to do in arch-viz.

I spend more time with unreal and even though there is a pretty well done documentation available on their website, most people will not read it. They go on the forums and ask questions or watch a YouTube tutorial. I have to include myself in that category too but I'm trying to change that.

If I compare unreal with vray 2.0, it's day and night how freaking more intuitive unreal is (and corona). No guess work and trying to figure out what settings will affect what other settings, etc. And all that happened in like what, 2-3 years...


2016-10-29, 09:00:37
Reply #78

Dionysios.TS

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Thank you, Benny, it was a great speech.

There is no label "For great artists only" on my Corona licenses. I am really not from a team, which may make tweaks glossy for hours and days. Super result after 2 weeks of work just bad result for me.  To be poor but proud is not a best thing in the world, I think.

I know to work with numbers and get result good enough for my clients in two hours. If there will be a new concept, I'll learn it. I do it for 20 years. Only thing, I'm looking for effective way. 

I have respect to artists absolutely. But they usually don't understand the word "efficiency". I met this a lot in my 20 years of experience.

I understand your efficiency matter and respect it. My clients came to me cause they searched and loved the results I produce after hours of tweaking and research and the goal is to achieve always emotions and realism. I got paid for this in the past and I get paid for this where I work now.

If you want a Ferrari, you get a Ferrari, if you want a Fiat Panda you get a Fiat Panda. At the end you get what you're paying for.

I personally prefer less jobs, be proud of my creation and more incomes than get crazy with 40+ projects per month and probably less incomes and craziness with the 40+ project's owners.

Nothing personal here, is just different point of view.
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2016-10-29, 13:51:34
Reply #79

astudio

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I really respect this. 1. Not everyone able to make Ferrari. 2. 40 Fiats Panda probably will give me more income then one Ferrari. 3. After crisis of 2004 and 2008 I prefer to produce Panda and to bye Ferrari ;) . It's just another business model. I'd like that Corona will be good for both.

Only thing that I looked for - To put diffuse from library, to take LRV from catalog, to put it in reflection slot and to manage glossy independently as it was in the past. It's good for Panda.

As I understand Corona today will be mostly Ferrari instrument. Changing in glossy will lead to changes in reflection.
And my client ask for reflection from catalog. For example they want compare stucco which reflect 55% of light with stucco which reflect 47%. So I just looking for a way. It's not for battles.

PS. My clients doesn't interesting in true lighting model, in mood and emotions. He want only to sell his property. And if he wants blue windows and oversaturated sky (very common case) - I'll give him.
« Last Edit: 2016-10-29, 14:01:33 by astudio »

2016-10-29, 14:23:37
Reply #80

Jpjapers

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As i understand it, Corona is a different way of looking at rendering that has never really been seen before. Simply because its so user driven and the team listens to the devoted community it has and the daily builds and trials are so accessible to everyone.
I love that the interface is stripped back and i can rely on the solid maths behind the engine to take care of 80% of the stuff that i dont need to touch that is spread all over the interface in MR & Vray. I get that for some users it can be intimidating because it doesnt often work like other engines, especially if they have migrated from never having used anything other than Vray and it can be hard to relinquish the 'control' that alot of the other renderers have but in my opinion alot of the controls in their interfaces are there because of hangovers from when rendering something progressively wasnt possible because of hardware limitations and you had to cut corners and fake stuff. Now we dont need to do that, theres no need for all the extra bullshit. Trust the algorithm xD

2016-10-29, 15:24:54
Reply #81

Jpjapers

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This whole thing is a little like the old days when some photographers loved the development part and spending time in the darkroom, tweaking the picture. Others loved the photography and the camera and dreaded the darkroom work, trying to get consistent results with as little effort as possible.


IKEA Have their own HUUUUGE 3d department of about 250 people modelling everything across their entire range. I saw a talk from one of their team leaders and he mentioned something that i found quite interesting thats somewhat akin to this. He said that when they merged their 3d and photography teams, the Photographers trained as 3d artists for a year and the 3d artists trained as photographers for a year so that they could work better together and understand why one team did something one way and why the other team worked in a different way. Offtopic but a great little anecdote!


2016-10-29, 15:30:46
Reply #82

Christa Noel

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Very interesting post, it has new things to learn and old new thing to burn in some people call it flamewar :D
He want only to sell his property. And if he wants blue windows and oversaturated sky (very common case) - I'll give him.
That is a pure businessman's sight. The more we can work faster and faster The more money we can get.. who doesnt want more for money? Me too :D
...and the goal is to achieve always emotions and realism...
... less jobs, be proud of my creation and more incomes than get crazy with 40+ projects per month...
That is an artist sight. Because life need a little bit of fun and art is fun. Artists needs the balance of money and satisfying things. Who doesnt need combination of both things? Me too :D

Ok, on-topic now. So, what is the conclusion? The real topic is so blurred now...
Do we (pro and rookie) will get more complete documentation..?
Or more video tutorials for each features?
Or hardcore simplification of UI?

To Rawalance, it would be nicer if there is a separated thread to discuss more in depth about the next simplified render setup UI..

2016-10-29, 15:35:59
Reply #83

astudio

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@jpjapers
It's not offtopic at all. 250 modelers = 250 licenses. And only few of them are really Artists.

@Christa Noel
Absolutely

2016-10-29, 15:47:17
Reply #84

Christa Noel

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IKEA Have their own HUUUUGE 3d department of about 250 people modelling everything across their entire range. I saw a talk from one of their team leaders and he mentioned something that i found quite interesting thats somewhat akin to this. He said that when they merged their 3d and photography teams, the Photographers trained as 3d artists for a year and the 3d artists trained as photographers for a year so that they could work better together and understand why one team did something one way and why the other team worked in a different way. Offtopic but a great little anecdote!
Yes I heard that a long time ago. I have seen in many cases that many people out there cannot improve their feel and skill because of lack of photography knowledges.

2016-10-29, 16:54:26
Reply #85

Noah45

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Understanding photography principles good, understanding art concepts better.
Retail Illustrator  (for ever' 80's )
3DMax 2020/Corona Version: 6DB

2016-10-29, 17:52:59
Reply #86

Jpjapers

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Understanding photography principles good, understanding art concepts better.

Thats interesting. Do you not think it depends on your end goal. Also ive just noticed youre a retail designer and visualiser. Me too!

2016-10-29, 18:26:50
Reply #87

Noah45

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Understanding photography principles good, understanding art concepts better.

Thats interesting. Do you not think it depends on your end goal. Also ive just noticed youre a retail designer and visualiser. Me too!

yep, retail, 40 renderings a day :) sometimes, but mostly Flagship primo stuff.

But understanding academic Art basic concepts would benefit all.
Retail Illustrator  (for ever' 80's )
3DMax 2020/Corona Version: 6DB

2016-10-29, 18:32:49
Reply #88

Jpjapers

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Understanding photography principles good, understanding art concepts better.

Thats interesting. Do you not think it depends on your end goal. Also ive just noticed youre a retail designer and visualiser. Me too!

yep, retail, 40 renderings a day :) sometimes, but mostly Flagship primo stuff.

But understanding academic Art basic concepts would benefit all.

I know your pain!
I Suppose youre right. Things like colour theory and things like that definitely stretch into various disciplines.

2016-10-29, 19:04:08
Reply #89

Noah45

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Principles of Two-Dimensional Design by Wucius Wong and the Munsell Color System was taught @ my Art school. It's benefited me ($$) many times.

Corona is a natural for this- non-tech guy.
Retail Illustrator  (for ever' 80's )
3DMax 2020/Corona Version: 6DB