Author Topic: Threadripper & Ryzen only builds (3rd Gen starts on page 50)  (Read 200998 times)

2020-04-04, 19:25:58
Reply #1050

Juraj

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What can you say about overclocking?

Don't ;- ).
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2020-04-04, 19:49:53
Reply #1051

Oleg_Kuchmin

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2020-04-04, 20:08:19
Reply #1052

dfcorona

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Don't bother overclocking, it's fast already and the Noctua cannot handle the over clock.  I was around 93c with overclock with the Noctua and Industrial 2000 fan at 100%.  Your looking at atleast 20c increase and for the increase in speed it's not worth it.  Hit 30k+ with OC though.  Wait for better cooling solutions then you can do the PBO overclock.

2020-04-04, 20:40:38
Reply #1053

Juraj

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You have CPU that runs at great temperature and doesn't require excessive and noisy cooling at stock. The temperature will rise exponentially once you overclock, for comparatively very little multi-threaded benefit.

The single-threaded performance is already maxed out in stock, there is no possible further gain, so you can only gain slightly bit faster render-time, but we are talking at best 12-15perc at point where you get additional 20-30C temps, which are unmanageable with Noctua and require some more serious cooling of which only one is currently on market (building your own custom water loop), and one experimental might come at end of this Q2, although I wouldn't count on it during the current crisis.

This is nothing like Skylake-X Intels where free 30+ perc. of performance is guaranteed.

At stock, the auto-regulated voltage is also managed very well, and will preserve longevity of the chip. Dies from 7nm node are extremely dense, and they do degrade with higher voltages that drive overclock.
This historically wasn't much the case for past decade but it is now and will continue with further progress towards even smaller node (5nm, 3nm...). I doubt this is worth it for 4000 Euro chip. I am also not sure what the long-term stability of overclocked 3990X would be due to fact that I/O die is also on the chip with Zen2 and is responsible for stability of the memory system.

3990X is the kind of CPU that you buy, install and forget about it. Need even more performance? Buy a second one :- ).

You can do a little bit of PBO by manually upping the PPT limit from 280W envelope to 300-320W, which will preserve higher turbos as long as the temperatures are managed (case with good airflow is mandatory).
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2020-04-05, 02:17:58
Reply #1054

twoheads

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Ok guys,

Just put all parts together, I have no idea if it's gonna work but I really hope so. (find out tomorrow when I boot it) In the meantime:

1 - plugged both ATX_12V1 and ATX_12V1is do I need two or just one?
2 - used two cables to connect GTX 1080ti to PSU. One cable for 6pin one for 8 pin is that ok?
3 - do you use those noise detection and temperature cables?

TH

2020-04-05, 13:03:15
Reply #1055

Dalton Watts

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For the ones with experience with both CPU's, would I notice a difference in single-thread performance between the 3990X and the 3950X? From the benchmarks it seems negligible but what about the real world?

2020-04-05, 13:21:56
Reply #1056

Juraj

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For the ones with experience with both CPU's, would I notice a difference in single-thread performance between the 3990X and the 3950X? From the benchmarks it seems negligible but what about the real world?

No, not at all. The benchmarks do actually show slight benefit for lower core models due to higher turbos (Ryzen 3950X, Threadripper 3960X..), but in reality, you can't tell any difference anywhere, most softwares feel laggy due to their own fault, and no +/- 200 MHz clocks will change how they feel. 4.3 vs 4.5 won't speed up anything.

This could only change in single-threaded processes that also depend on memory bandwidth (Ryzen is only dual-channel while Threadripers are quad) but I don't know of any that you could come across in CGI work.
(This is the one scenario where x299 platform from Intel is better than Ryzen, since you get 16-18core models with quad-channel platform and option for 256GB, neither that you would get with Ryzen. But in reality, you can't buy i9 10980X anywhere, and surely not for the intended price of 1000 dollars. Which is unfortunate)

Edit: Simulations (Fluids,etc..) might benefit from bandwidth provided by quad-channel. But those are not single-threaded.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-05, 14:53:25 by Juraj Talcik »
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2020-04-05, 14:10:39
Reply #1057

Dalton Watts

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For the ones with experience with both CPU's, would I notice a difference in single-thread performance between the 3990X and the 3950X? From the benchmarks it seems negligible but what about the real world?

No, not at all. The benchmarks do actually show slight benefit for lower core models due to higher turbos (Ryzen 3950X, Threadripper 3960X..), but in reality, you can't tell any difference anywhere, most softwares feel laggy due to their own fault, and no +/- 200 MHz clocks will change how they feel. 4.3 vs 4.5 won't speed up anything.

This could only change in single-threaded processes that also depend on memory bandwidth (Ryzen is only dual-channel while Threadripers are quad) but I don't know of any that you could come across in CGI work.

(This is the one scenario where x299 platform from Intel is better than Ryzen, since you get 16-18core models with quad-channel platform and option for 256GB, neither that you would get with Ryzen. But in reality, you can't buy i9 10980X anywhere, and surely not for the intended price of 1000 dollars. Which is unfortunate)

Thank you for the clarification Juraj!

2020-04-05, 21:41:08
Reply #1058

twoheads

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Just watched a few videos about 1080ti's sound profiles and I'm pretty sure mine isn't ok at all. Sadly my blower's fan rattles as loud as 40 year old washing machine. It's not only loud but extremely annoying sound. Blower's I heard sound more like "hair driers",

I've got a couple of days to return this GPU and maybe try some other options:

- risk again and spend 350/400 euros on used GTX1080ti just like mine
- risk (again) and buy gtx 1080ti marked as unused still in the box for 720 euro
- buy new extremely overpriced rtx 2080ti
- buy new 8GB rtx 2070 and wait for rtx 3000 series (God knows how long)

any sincere advice?




2020-04-06, 10:47:47
Reply #1059

Oleg_Kuchmin

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Don't bother overclocking, it's fast already and the Noctua cannot handle the over clock.  I was around 93c with overclock with the Noctua and Industrial 2000 fan at 100%.  Your looking at atleast 20c increase and for the increase in speed it's not worth it.  Hit 30k+ with OC though.  Wait for better cooling solutions then you can do the PBO overclock.

Thank you!
This is good idea to wait the better cooling solution.

2020-04-06, 10:57:24
Reply #1060

Oleg_Kuchmin

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You have CPU that runs at great temperature and doesn't require excessive and noisy cooling at stock. The temperature will rise exponentially once you overclock, for comparatively very little multi-threaded benefit.

The single-threaded performance is already maxed out in stock, there is no possible further gain, so you can only gain slightly bit faster render-time, but we are talking at best 12-15perc at point where you get additional 20-30C temps, which are unmanageable with Noctua and require some more serious cooling of which only one is currently on market (building your own custom water loop), and one experimental might come at end of this Q2, although I wouldn't count on it during the current crisis.

This is nothing like Skylake-X Intels where free 30+ perc. of performance is guaranteed.

At stock, the auto-regulated voltage is also managed very well, and will preserve longevity of the chip. Dies from 7nm node are extremely dense, and they do degrade with higher voltages that drive overclock.
This historically wasn't much the case for past decade but it is now and will continue with further progress towards even smaller node (5nm, 3nm...). I doubt this is worth it for 4000 Euro chip. I am also not sure what the long-term stability of overclocked 3990X would be due to fact that I/O die is also on the chip with Zen2 and is responsible for stability of the memory system.

3990X is the kind of CPU that you buy, install and forget about it. Need even more performance? Buy a second one :- ).

You can do a little bit of PBO by manually upping the PPT limit from 280W envelope to 300-320W, which will preserve higher turbos as long as the temperatures are managed (case with good airflow is mandatory).


Many thanks for the detailed explanation.
It's good enough to understand overall situation with OC.
And we'll stay on Auto without any custom OC.

2020-04-06, 11:19:41
Reply #1061

maru

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I saw some really weird articles on temperatures and voltages of Ryzens/Threadrippers. My 3900x at stock settings would get ~73C and ~1.45 voltages (peak), which seems to be high.
So I went to bios and lowered CPU voltage a bit (offset at -0.15 as far as I remember). The result is that:
- everything is still perfectly stable
- temperatures are lower (67C at full stress)
- voltages are lower (this is a bit confusing - there are different voltages reported by different apps, just like temps, but the same thing which used to be 1.45 previously is now 1.19.

It may sound like I am really trying hard to break my PC, but don't worry, I am using the Corona approach - if changing one parameter does not bring any benefit, I revert it to the defaults. :)

Update: Ryzen Master is showing Peak Core Voltage 1.45. In BIOS I enabled -0.15 offset. CPU-Z is showing Core Voltage 1.19. HWInfo is showing various voltages all over the place. I am confused. :)


2020-04-06, 15:48:18
Reply #1062

Juraj

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OK, so here is a general primer how to use Zen2 chips to their best capability :- ) Take the tone with grain of current situation salt ;- ).

1). There are no issues with voltage. Auto settings are working perfectly, and they are supplying high peak voltage at low current and vice versa. The CPU is not doing anything when those voltages peak that high.
     That is also the main reason why setting manual voltages is always bad idea and static overclocking is dead.
2). There is no reason for any voltage adjustments, including the eponymous internet favourite... undervolting. If undervolting was such great solution, are AMD engineers stupid by overshooting? Nope. Undervolting leads to overall worse stability, you are starving the system. If you want to lower for whatever reason lower temps & power consumption with slight performance drawback, the correct solution is to adjust the total power envelope, the PPT. This is also how AMD's native ECO mode works. Once again... AMD engineers are not idiots who needed Reddit overclockers to come up with miracle wonder solution.

3.) Don't tinker with shit. Keep the shit stock. It just works, like it should.

4.) You can't outsmart the system, or necke out some last existing reserves. With high power profile, the CPU already works at its maximum capacity. You can fiddle with billion settings, and the result will be tuned up Honda Civic from Joe the village idiot. It will work...until it doesn't.

TL,DR: You don't have to touch anything. And you shouldn't try. Peace and love !
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2020-04-06, 16:23:38
Reply #1063

maru

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I don't fully agree with that. To me it looks like (and this is also mentioned in some places other than reddit) that there are conflicts between BIOS, Ryzen Master, and maybe some other thing (power plans?).
Also, if I change the same value in one place (Extreme Tweaker > X) and in another place (Advanced > X), then it works fine in one case, and the PC doesn't boot in the other case. Something is definitely wrong here. The specific value that behaves like this for me is Precision Boost Overdrive set to Enabled.

So if I adjust some values, the system is stable, I am getting faster rendering, lower temperatures, and less noisy fans - then why shouldn't I be doing this, and why isn't it working like this out of the box?

2020-04-06, 16:37:09
Reply #1064

Nejc Kilar

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I don't fully agree with that. To me it looks like (and this is also mentioned in some places other than reddit) that there are conflicts between BIOS, Ryzen Master, and maybe some other thing (power plans?).
Also, if I change the same value in one place (Extreme Tweaker > X) and in another place (Advanced > X), then it works fine in one case, and the PC doesn't boot in the other case. Something is definitely wrong here. The specific value that behaves like this for me is Precision Boost Overdrive set to Enabled.

So if I adjust some values, the system is stable, I am getting faster rendering, lower temperatures, and less noisy fans - then why shouldn't I be doing this, and why isn't it working like this out of the box?

As far as a I know even binned chips have variance so some CPUs needing more voltage and some less does make sense to me too. Unless AMD is doing some per-individual-chip specific voltage regulations they have probably did it the old fashioned way - All the chips that they labeled as 3900x can hit the target frequences at the minimum of XY volts - so basically, they are targeting voltages of the lowest specced chip that falls into the 3900x product line.

I'm no engineer mind you but I'm under the impression that that is the way it's done.