Author Topic: Threadripper Builds  (Read 156037 times)

2019-06-04, 20:05:10
Reply #375

Juraj Talcik

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I don't really think I was ridiculing anyone based on what they work on :- ). I posted a link to blog post with comment section which is full of very strongly convinced yet very ignorant people, arguing with the emotional fervor of digital warfare. And it's not just people on Mac side, but generally. I didn't hint or said otherwise.

And the nonsense they write is absolutely entertaining, half of them are not only making up stuff, they straight up lie and pretend to work for some imaginary big-name studio (Sony ILM, Disney,etc..) to falsely boost their argument.

The new Mac doesn't have anything special going on, it's regular LGA3467 socket based Xeons and Radeon Vega (with Navi for higher builds) cards. It's simply placed in nice small cheese grater (I actually kind of dig the look but more specially how it positioned massive SSI sized board with no dead space left around) and comes installed with different operating system.
Nothing magical is going on, nothing is proprietary in the hardware in true sense, nothing to warrant 200perc. price increase outside of mostly brand-name. (as I doubt Apple provides the kind of corporate support HP/Dell does).

And that's ok, whoever wants to pay for the privilege should do so. But people acting like over-paying is staple of professional studios or the hardware is different (or even new, nothing is new there) are out of their minds.
This is people who have no actual knowledge about what is going under cover of computer regurgitating marketing drivel. "1.5 Terabyte of Memory ! Which Windows machine can support that?" Well, literally every single one with that platform. And so on and so on.

And in 5 years, I will not be laughing at the performance of 2990WX because the full workstation with 128GB of ram and top-tier GPU of its time had costed me less than 5k. There will be some photographer in Brooklyn who had paid for the same performance more than 20k.
I will spend the money difference on Seychelles in meantime.

If anyone wants to convince themselves the falsehoods they believe to be true, ok, but they shouldn't act like they're talking actual facts.

BTW I did not join the discussion there or anywhere else :- )
« Last Edit: 2019-06-04, 21:12:50 by Juraj Talcik »
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2019-06-04, 20:17:32
Reply #376

lupaz

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The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete.

You mean this? AMD Ryzen 9 3900X

2019-06-04, 20:50:36
Reply #377

Designerman77

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Juraj,

I meant that "you will laugh at the WX in 5 years"... simply because in 5 years there will be other CPUs, probably with 3x the power a the same price.

Regarding the specifications of that ugly cheese grater-Mac, I agree with you. Totally... Its really nothing special and not worth 6000,- bucks at all.

But from personal experience, it´s not the components of the Macs... but their OSX which provides you a huge reliability - and sometimes even more performance from weaker hardware.
I could observe massive "bottleneck"-effects on WIN & C4D which simply did´t occur under OSX (same C4D-version and much weaker Mac).

That's why I became quite sceptic with being too euphoric about one system, while claiming that the other system is "rubbish".


Greetings.




2019-06-04, 21:11:53
Reply #378

Juraj Talcik

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Designerman, I think you read again too much into that OSX thing. Right now even the discussion is based purely on the hardware side but the part that personally pushed me little bit over is this insinuation by many that what sets apart amateurs and professionals (of any industry I guess) is their indifference to costs.
Because apparently, every successful business with large enough budgets want to turn their operational costs into capital costs and be smugly proud about it.


The argument "Real professionals don't care about the price, they make one billion dollars per day and need much higher quality hardware" propagates two falsehoods: If you care about price/performance, you're not professional enough and that branded hardware solutions (not just Apple, BOXX and Dell/HP are equally used for this argument) are intrinsically superior due to their nature.
This ignorance is borne out of myth-building and spreads like wildfire.

I think everyone should spend their money however they wish and everyone puts value into something else. But the two arguments above are repeated so often it's nearing entrenchment and that strikes me.
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2019-06-04, 21:16:55
Reply #379

Juraj Talcik

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The next Ryzen makes every single Threadripper outside of 2990WX obsolete.

You mean this? AMD Ryzen 9 3900X


Nope, I mean the 16-core model that hasn't been published but seemed to be confirmed by many to exists. (I mean actual information after Computex was over).
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2019-06-04, 21:31:11
Reply #380

Njen

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    • Kickstart Cyan Eyed!
[on second thought my comment wasn't really appropriate for this thread talking about the 2990WX]
Please support my Kickstarter for my animated film, Cyan Eyed (rendered in Corona)!

2019-06-04, 21:38:09
Reply #381

Designerman77

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Juraj, well, I don´t support any of those weird claims... like "pros don't care about price".

My remarks about the OS-thing was strictly regarding the claim that "Macs are for ignorants and sooooo much worse than Win-systems".
Which, btw. is also repeated like a prayer by so many people.
Just tried to depict the main aspect, why some people accept the dis-balance between price and the performance of the naked components in a Mac.
It´s because a computer consists not only of its hardware.

2019-06-04, 21:48:36
Reply #382

Juraj Talcik

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It´s because a computer consists not only of its hardware.

Yes but that is contested territory, one that for large amount of workstation tasks, either can't be properly measured, or yields rather close performance similarity.
Most of all, something that in the end comes with personal preference that is hard to argue against factually.

But quite honestly, I have seen like 1-2 jokes about "real system" compared to 100 comments saying the price is fully justified based on imaginative properties of the specs, what they believe 'real pros' need, and how they can afford it without blinking an eye because 'tax write-offs' make it free.

I close the case from my side, I have to simply ignore those website debates, for all I know, it does always look to me like it's bunch (mentally) 12 year olds pretending to understand everything from hardware to business running.
Like I said in my first post, I simply couldn't contain myself :- ). The thing swept the internet !



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2019-06-05, 12:02:03
Reply #383

Designerman77

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Contested?

What is "contested" about the facts which I mentioned like: super-duper-specs-Win-PC could not even move AI, Rhino or PP and C4D froze after every render?
Also the significant speed differences (same soft / Rhino - for WIN !!! ) running slower on brand new PC vs. 7 year old Mac).

That all has nothing to do with "personal preference" or "can't be measured", like you claim. It´s facts, right in front of you, which are measurable with your eyes. Don't need benchmarks to see a crash or malfunction.
Personal preference? Is that the computer should work without having to experiment on it.

Seems like you have a kind of allergy against anything non-Win PC and can't resist ridiculing that "overpriced product".

It´s like a guy with a pimped-up Mercedes of 500 hp ridiculing an Aston Martin of 300 hp, because the Aston costs more and is slower on straight line, not considering that driving a car also implies curves, agility, reliability, etc...

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?

In my 42 years I learned one thing: underestimating others is the biggest mistake.


Thanks. From my side the intellectual exchange is also closed... if it´s on such a "religious" level.

2019-06-05, 16:43:35
Reply #384

maru

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Juraj, what have you done? ;)

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?
Designerman77 - Juraj is only referring to those mindless defenders, who are fighting on BOTH SIDES of the conflict. He mentioned it a few times already.
If this discussion does not calm down, we (mods) will have to start the purification process. ;)

2019-06-05, 17:54:55
Reply #385

Jpjapers

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Wow. Well. Back to my topic. If someone fancies posting a good and a budget spec for this build it might help alot of users. Ill put it in the first post if someone has a spec.

2019-06-05, 18:05:37
Reply #386

Designerman77

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Maru, I very well understand what Juraj was referring to. I do agree with his technical point of view and AM thankful for his info & opinion. No question.

Only the theory about "stupid Mac users" is questionable, especially knowing that many Corona clients use Macs.

Actually I came here to get more knowledge about the Threadripper 2990WX... since I'm quite interested in it.

However... guys, let's be friends again, connected by our common love to Corona. :)

Juraj, I love your 3D work - a benchmark I´m truly interested in. :)

2019-06-05, 18:31:39
Reply #387

Juraj Talcik

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Juraj, what have you done? ;)

Also comparing Mac folks to "12-year-olds"... or stupids like from that Cohen-bros.-movie. What´s that ?
Designerman77 - Juraj is only referring to those mindless defenders, who are fighting on BOTH SIDES of the conflict. He mentioned it a few times already.
If this discussion does not calm down, we (mods) will have to start the purification process. ;)


I've no idea :- ). People see what they want to see.. I think we can keep all the exchange above here, I think it does pertain to cost aspect of 2990WX even if it went wildy outside.. But I would stop the discussion on it further, I surely rested my case.

I never even mentioned any users.. and neither in between lines or in my thoughts.


Wow. Well. Back to my topic. If someone fancies posting a good and a budget spec for this build it might help alot of users. Ill put it in the first post if someone has a spec.



That's the issue little bit, the 2990WX does not play optimally with the budget boards and neither it is a budget chip, even if the performance makes it a bargain. Right afterwards it requires at least the best air cooler on Market, and beefy PSU.

So the base is never cheap to begin with. But it got me idea, I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.



« Last Edit: 2019-06-05, 18:38:54 by Juraj Talcik »
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2019-06-05, 20:07:36
Reply #388

lupaz

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I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.

That would great and very much appreciated.

2019-06-05, 21:12:10
Reply #389

Jpjapers

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I am rather busy but could write small blog post on the ins & outs of 2990WX builds, since we already have three good boards (MEG, Zenith Alpha as the two best, and Aorus as good-enough but with solid layout benefit for multi-GPU users). So there are choices to be done, each good in its own way and I could put that down so people know on what basis to make the decisions.

Im still looking to upgrade our studio PCs so that would be amazing if you get the time.