Author Topic: Threadripper Builds  (Read 129992 times)

2019-10-18, 14:05:31
Reply #585

Juraj Talcik

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Last 2990WX to build for our office, scored one for 900 Euro brand new...

Hi Juraj,

Could I ask where did you get that for €900? On eBay? Could you send me a PM about that please?

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Basically "local" (intra-country) versions of "ebay" :- ). They are full of people who lack the language, skill or patience to sell internationally. So they need to set much more realistic prices and faster than international sellers on eBay will do.
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2019-10-23, 10:34:38
Reply #586

nerfherder

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I wish I could buy that fake Apple cheese grater case from Dune right now, I would absolutely put this there :- D I am honestly a fan, in un-ironical way.

Yeah, that case looks great - planning on snapping one up before Apple shuts them down.

2019-10-23, 11:28:22
Reply #587

Juraj Talcik

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And if you put 3X noctua a12x25 (The sterrox ones) in front, the airflow is going to be both great and silent. Not worth doing AIO when it looks like it fits NH-D15.

I can't believe how well U14S manages the 2990WX, it honestly surprised me. But with high-ambient where I store my render farm (can get 27C very quickly), I don't think it will be enough for the newer 280W models.
I really hope Noctua can finally speed-up a bit and deliver the D15 for TR4, they had existing prototype for one and half year. They are officially the slowest, most conservative company on earth.

I feel like building more of them right now but I have to hold up for the 3xxx since they are just around corners.
Did price calculations for every single engineering sample Xeon & Epyc and looks like they're no longer worth any consideration.
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2019-10-25, 17:06:35
Reply #588

Juraj Talcik

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Now that I had time to compare Asus Alpha and MSI MEG, I can tell you few things:

- with both you can see how little attention and support goes into them. Alpha came out half a year later than MEG and it's been almost one year since...and it still has actually problematic (and very sporadically updated) BIOS.
- I was always fan of Asus UEFI layout, but at the moment I can't say it's any better than MSI MEG, both became "RGB-ized" metaphorically by being overly flashy to detriment of finding what you need quickly. I also hate how randomly are things organized in both boards.
- VRM is good enough for overclock to same extent as MEG. Same seem to go for the whole power cascade.
- Memory support is very much identical, so I guess this is purely a Threadripper thing. The Asus was budget build, so of course I bought regular Micron/Hynix (no idea which) from Kingston (128GB Kit for 700 Euro is as good a deal as it gets, no reason to hunt for overpriced discontinued B-Die sets). It boots just fine at 2933/3000 CL15, but it isn't stable there. Compromise of slightly lower clock or less tight timings or much higher voltage and you are good to go. No performance loss here.

I am actually in awe how relatively modest U14S TR4 can cool this CPU, probably all due to size of heatspreader. AMD did a really good decision here, but I would love Noctua to get in bit of hurry and give us NH-D15.
With Threadripper, it's all about overall airflow anyway. Board, VRM and specifically memory can get much hotter than the CPU, so this is first build where case fans are running faster then the single A15 on heatsink (800rpm vs 600rpm in Fractal Define R6)

Since my current opinion is that it's absolutely not worth overclocking Threadripper since your single-core turbo is already capped at stock (4.1 +/- GHz), and additional 5-8perc. of multithreaded performance is not worth additional 250W of heat & noise since you should have render farm for this anyway, I highly suggest to just stick to air-cooling, even for upcoming Threadrippers. I wouldn't be surprised if air-tower is just fine for at least the 48core version or whatever will come.

My plan is now to take Veronika's 2990WX out of her loop, place it into Define R6 just like the Asus build, keep both in render-farm and rebuild her loop into my case (LianLi 3000) for the upcoming January Threadrippers, since that case lets me have separate airflow for rads and case.
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2019-10-29, 14:56:18
Reply #589

vfga10

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Thank you so much for Your Help Juraj! I bought it and some friends helped me to built it. Works Amazing, it is a beast! Thanks for your help and recommendations.
Final gear:

-Fractal Design Define R6
-AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
-MSI MEG X399 CREATION Motherboard
-EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC Ultra Gaming, 8GB
-Seasonic Prime 1300W Power Supply
-4XCorsair Vengeance LPX CMK32GX4M2B3200C16 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4
-Samsung 860 EVO 2TB M.2 (SATA) SSD
-Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 CPU Cooler
-Seagate BarraCuda 8TB, ST8000DM004

2019-11-07, 15:16:51
Reply #590

Adam

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2019-11-07, 15:42:13
Reply #591

Juraj Talcik

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I don't know..so far I am not that impressed.

Let's see benchmarks to see if the improved IPC manifests for Threadrippers like it does for Ryzen 3950X. That would make the slight price increase justified.

The boards are big issue though, I understand PCI 4.0 adds to price but here is my quick overview:

Gigabyte: The entry level board is 400+ Euro and has 12+2 Power phases. In no way I would buy this board for 280W CPUs...I have no idea what this board tries to achieve and who is it for.
The medium level 600 Euro has great VRM (16+3), just like MSI MEG did, but inferior PCI-E Layout (due to E-ATX size limitations), and 5GbE LAN ? I am sorry but you couldn't spare 10GbE for 600 Euro board?

The only good board is the Aorus Extreme which is now 900 !!!! Euro board. It has both superior PCI-E Layout because it's the only board that went for longer (not wider) XL-ATX format. No one else was smart enough to do this? Same great 16+3 VRM power cascade. But... 900 Euros.

So if you want the 32-core, 10GbE and nice PCI-E layout (for possible quad-gpu, or dual GPU and dual expansion cards), you are at 3000 Euro already. Not great, not terrible.

My current gut feeling is that people should either go for Ryzen 3950X or wait for the bigger WRX80 platform and higher-cored Threadrippers. But maybe I will surprised by the benchmarks.
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2019-11-07, 16:17:44
Reply #592

steyin

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Going to have stop buying rare Legos for a while to save up for the 64 core build lol.

2019-11-07, 16:23:00
Reply #593

psanitra

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I`m kind of OK with the 3960/3970 progress, was expecting the base clock around 3500/3600, so i`m pleasantly surprised to see 3700/3800.

Wish i could say the same about the boards. Just looking at the new boards, layout,VRM blocks/fans, it`s going to be a mess again.  It`s best to wait for some real results, specially the VRMs, temps under longer load. 280W is a lot, with medium OC we`ll be at 400-450W.


ASUS ROG ZENITH II EXTREME looks solid so far, with the VRM fans.
AORUS EXTREME,hm same as last year, if you want 4 slots space, good. Otherwise no Active VRM fans on top? and they slap same nonsense plastic cover/stripe there. No lesson learned here..


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2019-11-07, 16:48:36
Reply #594

Juraj Talcik

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You don't want those tiny fans on VRM to spin, I disabled them on Zenith Alpha. They're hardly necessary with satisfying power capacity, even for 400+ W.
Asus claims the 8 doublers (effectively 16 power phases) are superior for board cooling, but I would now say the Aorus has the better VRM with full true 16 phases and 3 PCH phases. I doubt fans are needed on top of that.

Otherwise it's tie between these two boards, but only Aorus has good layout. Both are 900 Euros.

Interesting budget choice could be Asus Prime, since all Asus boards have the same VRM, whereas Asrock and Gigabyte only have 12 phases for their "entry" levels.

So for 400 +/- Euros, Asus Prime, otherwise Aorus Extreme or Zenith II. Fully agree with plastic blocking airflow to heatsink. I guess logo visibility is more important for that price.

MSI Creation seems like it could be cheaper Zenith II (same layout, 10GbE, still the same great VRM), didn't see price. If it's 700 +/- Euro it could be also interesting choice.

Those Asrock boards looks...no comment.
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2019-11-08, 02:32:22
Reply #595

michaltimko

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I think i`ll wait a bit more for 48c/64c . I dont see any logical reason for me to upgrade from 2990wx. At least not for that price vs speed improvement. Its more about the pcie4 and all the features coming with the new boards (which are hard to fully utilize in archviz anyway).

Im also curious about cooling. Stock 250W in the summer on the air is hard to keep under 65C so i guess 280W will need some custom water loop which is pushnig price even higher.

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Supporting Corona in commercial projects since pre-alpha

2019-11-08, 10:38:35
Reply #596

Juraj Talcik

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That's the million dollar question, is it going to be 3000 +/- Chip, or 4000-6000 dollar chip :- ). Or both?

I hoped for more leaks regarding that. Just that one from MSI showing their Creator TRX40 board will be able to run it.

Loop might be advisable since Noctua D15(16?)-TR4 is coming in Q2, I guess in summer. Given the prototype has been showing for year and half, that's some impressive development speed right there.
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2019-11-08, 14:05:50
Reply #597

4b4

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Doing a quick bit of maths on the AMD promo material it sounds like we might be able to expect up to 16,700 in cinebench R20 from the 3970x and 13,500 on the 3960X. I could be getting this completely wrong if they're referring to single core scores but I'm guessing it's multicore. I'm basing this of a score of 8791 for the i9 9980XE. I know the reviews might reveal a different story to the promo material but hopefully I'm in the right ballpark.

I'm going off the percentages on this slide:

https://hothardware.com/photo-gallery/NewsItem/49812?image=big_ryzen_threadripper_amd_performance.png&tag=popup

Plodding away over here on a 1950x (6670 in cinebench R20) so those numbers above look good.

Only thing I'm a bit unsure on is the discussions I've seen around Corona not fully utilising all that the 2990WX has to offer. Has there been any dev feedback on this?

2019-11-08, 14:37:44
Reply #598

michaltimko

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Yea i was expecting new 24c to to be +- same as 2990wx but considering 15% ipc boost and 800mhz higher base clock, 13-14k points is quite possible. Its like 2990wx in PBO mode. 3970x might be hitting around 16-17k points as you mentioned.

I dont care about anything just Corona atm so thats deciding factor for me. Its just amazing how AMD made 2990wx look like a bit better consumer grade cpu just in 1 year. Overclocked 3950x might score same as 2990wx in Cinebench. Only downside is quad channel and PCIe lanes but honestly, thats not something we are benefiting from (archviz/cpu rendering). From technical POV, 2990wx will remain as 3rd most powerful cpu on the market but from budget perspective, its not that great choice anymore (numa , memory etc).

If 3970x can crunch Corona benchmark in 25s and less , i might be interested in upgrading my rigs but im very skeptical. Not sure if new i/o architecture can help but cosidering that Cinebnech goes up to 13k points after turning PBO on (11 300pt stock) while Corona benchmark does nothing...

Also what do you guys think about higher base clock vs 3ds max ? Running IR while opening HDRis / material editor is quite sluggish for me compared to 4.5ghz intel i had before. This is what drives me nuts the most. I hope there will be some improvement with new i/o architecture in this regard and i dont think 4.5 turbo boost will change anything compared to 2990wx turbo.
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2019-11-08, 16:10:43
Reply #599

Juraj Talcik

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I would caution against being overly optimistic :- ). The turbos on Zen2 are already at top of what these chips can achieve (most commonly, they don't even achieve them without some work put into it), I would expect close to zero room for any PBO benefit.

I doubt 3950X will prove to reach multi-threaded score of 2990WX, and being tiny chip it will be harder to keep cool despite having much smaller TDP on paper.

Cinebench, even R20 is still very misleading benchmark, it's not just Corona, the R20 score doesn't correlate to VrayNext either.

I do expect the I/O improvements to help with bunch of single-threaded tasks at once, since 2990WX biggest fault is half of cores without memory controller, and you have no choice which thread will be assigned by Windows.
Apparently the "fix" for this in Windows is still on way only, the mythical "improved scheduler". I wouldn't hold my breath for it..

3970X - 25 seconds in Corona, that would be...far too good to be true but who knows. Dual Rome Epyc (2x32c) 7502 or which one is it, makes it to 20 seconds.
So...possible...but I don't think so..
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