Author Topic: Threadripper Builds  (Read 144277 times)

2020-01-14, 01:32:43
Reply #810

danio1011

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Hi Juraj - just out of curiosity: Why not go with the G Skill Neo 3600 16/19/19 16gb chips?  Is the 18 vs 19 timings the deciding issue and impacts things more than the 400mhz difference?  Or are you looking for 32gb chips? 

Just curious if I made the right call in my build or if the difference should be negligible.

I have my doubts that 3600 CL16 would be stable if you populate all DIMM slots :- ). Technically the platform supports up to 4666 MT/s overclock, but the higher the lanes utilization, memory ranks, memory capacity, etc.. contribute to overall stress load on memory controller and the guaranteed stable speed gets lowered.
This speed should be 3200 for 8x16GB or 8x32GB. Interestingly, 8x16 is officially only 2666 but we know 2933 is stable, while 4x32 is 3200 officially, so theoretically 4x32 could run at 3600, but someone would have to test that. But 8x 32GB will definitely stop at 3200, if it was stable, someone would sell that kind of kit, but fastest available 8x32 GB kits are 3200 so that tells us something.

I am already set on 256GB ram, 128 GB has been serving me really well (and I am able to utilize it 90perc. ) and since I plan to use this PC for next few years hopefully I would like to have some future proofing.
Also, I remember how I paid 750 Euros for 64GB of memory in October 2018, only to buy another 64GB kit for 300 Euros year later. The peak memory prices were painful, and they will be painful again. I am not waiting for them to rise up.

18 vs 19 will btw internally become 18 vs 20 because Zen architecture by default prefer "Gear down mode" in Bios, it makes for more stable memory but will round up timings to the nearest even integer value. But those secondary timings aren't that crucial anyway, I would never waste time in bios playing around with them only to have my PC crash few days later, this is hobby for Reddit dwarves :- ).

You can test it btw ;- ) Buy another kit, you can always return it :- ).

Ok that makes sense.  I think I will prioritize getting another kit, then, for testing.  I may return all of it (even the original 64gb) if I can't reach 128gb.  64 just isn't enough these days.  Although I suppose I could run this 3600 at 3200, but then the CAS would be slower...I wonder what the real world effects of that nanosecond (or two) really is.

2020-01-14, 11:11:12
Reply #811

Juraj Talcik

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When you lower the frequency, you can also lower the timings, none of these things are fixed :- ). These are overclocked modules.

It's actually strategy some people take, they buy much higher frequency modules and then run them at highest (but lower than bought one) stable frequency with fastest timings they can get.
But this requires bit of patience and of course those modules aren't on any QVL set. There should even be some UEFI presets for memory you can just pick from.

So 3600 16/19/16/39 can become 3200 14/18/18/38 for example or maybe even faster (14/16/16 ?).
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2020-01-14, 14:50:26
Reply #812

twoheads

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Would you recommend Corsair Vengeance LPX, DDR4, 128 GB,3000MHz, CL16 (CMK128GX4M8B3000C16) as stable solution for 3970X? (no OC needed)

I can get 128GB for 830 Euro (tax included)

2020-01-14, 14:57:47
Reply #813

Juraj Talcik

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Can't do personal recommendations, you will blame me if it's not stable at sold speed ;- ).

If it's not on QVL list (and absolutely nothing useful is ever there), you just have to take a risk.
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2020-01-14, 15:21:56
Reply #814

twoheads

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Useful as always ;)

But sure, I completely understand your point.

 CMK128GX4M8B3000C16 is on the gigabyte trx40 aorus master list though, so maybe....maybe

2020-01-14, 15:32:17
Reply #815

lupaz

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Just a quick message: I replaced a Ryzen 1800x for a 3950x and it seems to be working great!
I didn't change anything else on the computer other than updating the BIOS.

Thanks for your advice Juraj (and others).

2020-01-14, 16:04:37
Reply #816

twoheads

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Great news Lupaz,

Any corona speed tests yet? Scribble something if you have time.

2020-01-14, 17:16:27
Reply #817

lupaz

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Great news Lupaz,

Any corona speed tests yet? Scribble something if you have time.

Here it goes:
Corona 1.3 Benchmark Finished
BTR Scene 16 passes
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core Processor
 Real CPU Frequency [GHz]: 4.1
Render Time: 0:00:57, Rays/sec: 8,488,230

2020-01-14, 18:15:57
Reply #818

danio1011

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When you lower the frequency, you can also lower the timings, none of these things are fixed :- ). These are overclocked modules.

It's actually strategy some people take, they buy much higher frequency modules and then run them at highest (but lower than bought one) stable frequency with fastest timings they can get.
But this requires bit of patience and of course those modules aren't on any QVL set. There should even be some UEFI presets for memory you can just pick from.

So 3600 16/19/16/39 can become 3200 14/18/18/38 for example or maybe even faster (14/16/16 ?).

Ok, very cool.  I feel better about my odds of finding an acceptable 128gb timing and clock setup with these modules then.  Cheers and thanks as always for the insight.

2020-01-15, 07:52:58
Reply #819

danio1011

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Just a thermal update for those interested in this 3970x build.  I added half a dozen noctua fans to the case and closed it up.  I had Corona rendering away for 30 minutes and the CPU seemed to stabilize at 77C.  CPU core speed averaged around 3.85ghz.  I haven't tweaked PBO or anything like that so I'm assuming this is typical for this CPU under a uniform multi-threaded load?

During denoising (long, with lightmix) the CPU hit between 82-86C which doesn't surprise me since it's evidently more of an intense CPU load than simple rendering.  Core speeds started jumping around, never apparently dropping below 3.8ghz (which tells me it wasn't throttling) but often climbing to 4.2+ ghz which I thought was interesting.  I have no idea how the latest threadripper determines individual core speed.

EDIT:  Doing another 1 hr render.  Somewhere along the line HWMonitor reported a spike to 97C (!!!) but otherwise at 78C and 3.85ghz.  If temps consistently spike that high I might have to look for another cooler...
« Last Edit: 2020-01-15, 09:24:39 by danio1011 »

2020-01-15, 10:59:07
Reply #820

Juraj Talcik

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I don't think you should worry. But this shows that current Air Coolers are absolutely on verge of limit at all times. So everyone should avoid PBO unless they have custom loop :- ). (I don't get the logic of anyone trying anyway..?)

Those spikes are mostly due to intra-die temperatures, because biggest issue isn't thermal dissipation from heatsink but transfer away from dies onto coldplate. sTR4 is pretty big socket and the dies are relatively well spread (although closer in 3960/3970X than they were in 2xxx get, this is so that 3990X would fit), this issue is bigger with 3950X which has high spikes due to small AM4 socket.

There is no other cooler anyway. You can just wait until Noctua releases one after summer.
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2020-01-15, 16:37:48
Reply #821

lupaz

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this issue is bigger with 3950X which has high spikes due to small AM4 socket.

In my case (3950x) I have the Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4, the fans are set to silent mode on the BIOS, I have PBO enabled and my temps after 30 minutes are:

While rendering: Max:68.5. Average: 65.2
While denoising: Max 78.3

Pretty happy so far.

2020-01-15, 16:48:41
Reply #822

Juraj Talcik

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Yeah I am super happy with the 3950X and NH-D15 (non S, I had older version in my drawer).

I had some spikes due to ASUS bios having hard-set thermal limit at 75C where it will force PWM fans into 100perc. regardless of your profile/curve.
Apparently this can be solved by installing their windows software but I never do it.

For this reason I like to install low-noise adapters to do 'hard-cap' on RPM.

The next NH-D15(16?) iteration will be fantastic on TR4 since it can fit like one or two more heatpipes. If they could just like...hurry up.

BTW: My second Lian-Li V3000 came today, OptimusWC block should ship this Friday. Still can't source Aorus Xtreme anywhere...
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2020-01-15, 18:33:04
Reply #823

danio1011

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I don't think you should worry. But this shows that current Air Coolers are absolutely on verge of limit at all times. So everyone should avoid PBO unless they have custom loop :- ). (I don't get the logic of anyone trying anyway..?)

Those spikes are mostly due to intra-die temperatures, because biggest issue isn't thermal dissipation from heatsink but transfer away from dies onto coldplate. sTR4 is pretty big socket and the dies are relatively well spread (although closer in 3960/3970X than they were in 2xxx get, this is so that 3990X would fit), this issue is bigger with 3950X which has high spikes due to small AM4 socket.

There is no other cooler anyway. You can just wait until Noctua releases one after summer.

Ok great, that's good to know about the relevance of temperature spikes.  I guess by 'another cooler' I meant custom loop, vague wording on my part sorry.  Considering the cost of this machine to date a custom loop is not a huge investment.  It's really more just the hassle.  But I'd do it if it meant a stable system.

That said, it rendered all night, never hit above 88C again and has been stable.  So far the 3970x is quite the upgrade over a 1950x :)

As for sourcing the Aorus Extreme, can you not order from Amazon US?  I'm sure I'm just ignorant about imports or policies, just curious how that works for European customers.

2020-01-15, 18:49:51
Reply #824

Juraj Talcik

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For identical price, I loose one year of warranty and complicate the process of warrantying. (Having to go through Gigabyte instead of just dropping it to retailer I got it from).
For sensitive parts like motherboard, I would rather buy this at home.
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