Author Topic: Threadripper & Ryzen only builds (3rd Gen starts on page 50)  (Read 191294 times)

2020-03-26, 18:31:48
Reply #1020

dfcorona

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Thanks for the informative response Juraj, Appreciate it. I do think Corona is in need of a new benchmark that runs at least 2 minutes. Putting systems into new case right now. Also going to need to get new ram. Running 64gb DDR4 3200 CAS 14 right now, looking to get another set at 128gb. Not sure if it's better to get CAS 14, or get Cas 16 and change timing. CAS 14 is double the money. Might want to wait for the better ram coming out.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-27, 16:19:18 by dfcorona »

2020-03-27, 09:42:22
Reply #1021

michaltimko

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I discovered strange behaviour with my memory kit. I have 3000/14 Bdie kit from Gskill. If i run memory on JEDEC specs (2133/15), im getting 24 880points in CBR20 and 17s in Corona.

If i enable XMP or set memory to higher frequency with tighter timings, it goes down to 19-22s in Corona and 23-24k in CB.

Try to run your memory kit completely stock. Im even thinking buying new 128gb kit with 2133 which is pretty cheap compared top 3000+ kits.
Coronaut!(c)2011

Supporting Corona in commercial projects since pre-alpha

2020-03-27, 11:50:00
Reply #1022

Juraj Talcik

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That is rather strange. My score is 17/18s seconds whether it's 2133 or 3000. The all-core turbo does get slightly lowered clocks but the IO die consumes 50perc. more power so that is reasonable since the 280W total for {8 dies + IO } is quite strict.

Check the HWiNFO clocks, see if there is anything suspicious. "Tightening" Timings is something I would not do in 128-256GB kits, esp. when all 8 slots are populated.
Did you update to latest bios ? My Aorus had already 4 of them, the first brought 3990X compatibility, one fixed issue, and two improved memory compability.

Why would you want to buy 2133 kit ? Hardware wise, 3000 Kits are also just 2133 native MT/s, only selected through multiple binning rounds to find which one overclocks the best, since XMP is only overclocked profile.
A kit that can be overclocked to 3000/CL14 is such a high quality, that it will always be more stable, and run cooler regardless of what speed is it run at. So even when set at 2133, it would be far better choice.

With that said, your particular kit's XMP might be quite extreme for 3990X in 8x16GB configuration. There are people with stable up to 3677 frequency seemingly even for 8x32GB, but the timings are never that low as what this kit came with.
The XMP profile is CL14-14-14-34, and those sub-timings might be what causes issues.

G.Skill created this XMP profile before even Zen became a thing for. Since then, not even their most expensive kits featured such timings ever again.

What I would suggest first, enable XMP, and then manually change into 14/16/16/36. (why not 15/15/35 ? Because GearDown mode which ups stability rounds them up anyway).

Try also finding "Spread Spectrum Control". This is on default in most bioses to comply with radio frequency interference but can cause issues with overclock (and XMP is overclock). It's what causes the slight frequency oscillation of BLCK, Memory, etc.. (.ie instead of 100, it's 99.7, then few seconds lte 100.2,etc..). Disable it, it has no adverse effect, this is only to comply with norms, it has no user benefits.

Guys, don't judge the performance of your PC based on osccilating scores of Cinebench and Corona benchmark, they really tell a poor story. Faster memory (and subsequent faster Infinity Fabric) still benefit plenty of other workloads.
Even the official AMD suggestions are for 3200 kits (although officially for 128GB only at 4x32, not 8x16, but this is just because of 100 perc. guaranteed to run, and it will run anyway) (Anything above has not proved to provide any meaningful or perceptible benefit).
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2020-03-27, 12:05:57
Reply #1023

Juraj Talcik

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Also, 280W CPUs with overclocked memory can already come to clash with Windows Power management.

Windows10 had lot of AMD updates in past few months, that rendered Ryzen power profiles (Balanced & HighPerf) not needed. I suggest to always use the "Ultra Performance mode" and disable completely Fast Startup  (the Windows one, not bios) and hybernation options.
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2020-03-27, 12:44:03
Reply #1024

michaltimko

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Thanks for advices, i`ll try all you suggested. Yea im using latest bios. Had to flash it becuse i wasnt even able to get into bios after i installed 3990x. Regarding ram - I think i was at 14/16/16/16 before but i`ll check again to be sure. Why i mentioned 2133 kit ? They are much cheaper than "B-die" kits.

Good call with Ryzen Balanced, im using it right now.

I know that CBR/Corona isnt proper indication of power but it can give you brief idea of whats happening in case you change some settings or something "feels weird". When i build up my machines, i always just install latest bios, drivers, run some benchmarks and check if they are in line with whats on the internet and im good to go.

Coronaut!(c)2011

Supporting Corona in commercial projects since pre-alpha

2020-03-27, 12:56:39
Reply #1025

Juraj Talcik

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Yes but you already have that kit :- ) It's really hard to sell anything 64+ GB on used market, you wouldn't get near full price back. Esp. right now with the crisis.. people won't be buying used hardware much for next two-three months.
I don't think I'll be able to sell one or two of my 2990WX for even 700 Euros.

You can also just try PBO for moment (or keep it if you'll find the temps still good). Up the PPT limit to 300-320W, not sure the other two limits (TDC, EDC) are needed to modify for such small increase (but their ratio is basically 3:2:2 +/- ).
While the IO does eat up little bit of multi-core performance (but imho only perceptible in short benchmarks, anything past few minutes equalize), the single-core stays the same.

Zen2 chiplets, can eat up to 70+ W each +/-, so if 3990W was allowed to scale as well as 3960/3970X, it would be 500W chip. SoC only eats 20W at stock, but if faster memory makes it consume even slightly bit more (let's say 30W), it power starves the 8 dies, something that wouldn't be noticeable otherwise. 3970X would go from 65W to 63W, but 3990W will go from 32 to 30 per chiplet die. I am making these numbers up, I don't know what they exactly are, but the difference is that the chip will run slightly lower all-core boosts unless compensated for the additional SoC consumption. And this will only become perceptible difference on 3990X.

But the architecture still does benefit from that faster memory and increased infinity fabric. And if the loss makes it seems like tradeback, upping the PPT limit should solve it. I wanted to do such tests when my waterblock arrives, but 20+ W shouldn't make much of dent for 3990X, the CPU cools exceptionally well.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-27, 13:18:19 by Juraj Talcik »
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2020-03-27, 13:12:33
Reply #1026

michaltimko

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I need another kit to another machine so i was considering something cheaper so im not paying double the price for 3000+.

I was probably lucky but sold 2990wx with board and cooler yesterday but indeed, its going to be hard in upcoming months.

Coronaut!(c)2011

Supporting Corona in commercial projects since pre-alpha

2020-03-27, 13:21:41
Reply #1027

Juraj Talcik

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I was probably lucky but sold 2990wx with board and cooler yesterday but indeed, its going to be hard in upcoming months.

Uh.. nice. How much for? Bazos.cz or .sk ? Elsewhere ? I'll put same price.
(This... ? https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/109533528/predam-amd-threadripper-2990wx-x399-aorus-extreme.php )

Quote
I need another kit to another machine

If you need another kit, get the one with 32GB modules. Not only it gives you option to run 256 GB in future (who knows... always good to have such option), but it's more stable than 16GB modules on Zen at same capacity (4x32 is much better than 8x16).
They also cost the same pretty much right now. And the 3200/CL16 kits run straight with XMP, I have such on 3950X and it worked without any sweat.
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2020-03-27, 13:34:00
Reply #1028

michaltimko

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Quote
(This... ? https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/109533528/predam-amd-threadripper-2990wx-x399-aorus-extreme.php )

Yup, i gave him mobo, cpu and cooler for a bit cheaper than i listed + another 2 guys wrote me that thay want to buy it. Its probably easier to sell it as "kit" with mobo and cooler. Its more attractive for buyers i guess.
Quote
I need another kit to another machine

Quote
If you need another kit, get the one with 32GB modules. Not only it gives you option to run 256 GB in future (who knows... always good to have such option), but it's more stable than 16GB modules on Zen at same capacity (4x32 is much better than 8x16).
They also cost the same pretty much right now. And the 3200/CL16 kits run straight with XMP, I have such on 3950X and it worked without any sweat.

Thanks for valuable info, much appreciated.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-27, 18:36:40 by michaltimko »
Coronaut!(c)2011

Supporting Corona in commercial projects since pre-alpha

2020-03-27, 18:06:42
Reply #1029

dfcorona

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I am looking at this kit here to purchase:

G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 128GB (4 x 32GB) 3200Mhz F4-3200C16Q-128GTZN

Is Samsung B-Die only 8gb modules?, Sorry hard to find out what is b-die or not. But from what I read so far B-Die is only up to 8gb per module.

Right now I am running, G.SKILL TridentZ Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 3200Mhz F4-3200C14Q2-64GTZ
So timing is 14-14-14-34 compared to new 128gb kit at 16-18-18-38.  Will that make a difference in Corona?

There is this kit also, Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) 3600Mhz Memory. It's 3600Mhz but runs at an even slower CAS of 18-22-22-42.

2020-03-27, 19:56:49
Reply #1030

dfcorona

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Also, 280W CPUs with overclocked memory can already come to clash with Windows Power management.

Windows10 had lot of AMD updates in past few months, that rendered Ryzen power profiles (Balanced & HighPerf) not needed. I suggest to always use the "Ultra Performance mode" and disable completely Fast Startup  (the Windows one, not bios) and hybernation options.
Good call on power profile, getting better performance now.  Tried "High Performance mode" the other day and noticed better CB scores, then read what you wrote and switched off Ryzens power plan.  Had to manually enable "Ultra Performance mode" since it was not showing up, and running that now. My average CB score is now more towards 24,900-25k.

2020-03-29, 17:12:22
Reply #1031

lolec

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Hey Juraj, You've already given so much good information I feel bad asking for some more, but this is an important build so I want to make sure, what do you think of this components?

Threadripper 3990x
Noctua NH-U14S TR4
Asus ROG ZENITH II EXTREME ALPHA EATX
Quadro RTX 5000
G.Skill Trident Z Neo 256 GB (8 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME
SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000 W 80+ Titanium

I have a  couple of specific doubts:
1. I know all motherboards are good for TR4, but you said Zenith has best ram compatibility. I don't need the Gigabit connection, is Zenith II extreme the best choice in that case?
2. Am I making some noticable sacrifice going to 256 GB ram?  I think I can live with 128 GB, but if I can go 256 without sacrificing anything, I'd rather do that.
3. Anything better that the 970 EVO plus? I don't want to do raid as I had a bad experience before, so looking for the fastest out of the box.
4. No idea on how to choose a power supply, but the price difference is so small I figured I'd go with the "best" any one in particular you can recomend?

Thanks
« Last Edit: 2020-03-29, 17:37:12 by lolec »

2020-03-29, 19:02:58
Reply #1032

Juraj Talcik

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Sorry hard to find out what is b-die or not.

That's the issue with memory in general, it's hard to find out who made it, what revision it is and what quality it is. If it's not in QVL (of either board maker or memory maker), it's just lottery based on assumptions (and what you can google of it).
So I can't give any concrete suggestions.


1. I know all motherboards are good for TR4, but you said Zenith has best ram compatibility. I don't need the Gigabit connection, is Zenith II extreme the best choice in that case?
2. Am I making some noticable sacrifice going to 256 GB ram?  I think I can live with 128 GB, but if I can go 256 without sacrificing anything, I'd rather do that.
3. Anything better that the 970 EVO plus? I don't want to do raid as I had a bad experience before, so looking for the fastest out of the box.
4. No idea on how to choose a power supply, but the price difference is so small I figured I'd go with the "best" any one in particular you can recomend?


1. It seems to be the case based from reviews done so far and the fact memory vendors like G.Skill provide QVL for this board for almost all their kits.
2. No sacrifice at all, in fact, opposite. 32GB DIMMs are effectively quad-rank which improves performance despite slightly worse clocks&timings. High-core CPUs also benefit from more memory. 3990X & 256GB is fantastic match, I am waiting for such kit as well.
3. Depends on what you would consider to be better, 970 EVO is mainstream mid-market budget option. For system drive, random low queue depth 4K access and latency are only things that improve performance but I don't think you would notice. I am not sure I can tell any difference with my Optane drive, and there is nothing better in world :- ). 970 EVO 2TB is still great choice, I personally would trust it little bit more than PCI 4.0 drives from less reputable brands like Sabrent, but it doesn't matter as long as you have good back-up.

RAID 0 is in my opinion rather worthless and unwise for SSDs, it improves already gigantic sequential speeds which don't matter at all for system drive, and worsens latency which does matter. And of course,.. helps you loose your data easier, esp. with consumer drives that don't offer any power-loss safety.
RAID 1 improves read speeds somewhat, but you're wasting expensive drive to do so.

4. High-end all-digital platforms like PRIME is the best you can get regardless of efficiency rating. The only better PSU than these is Corsair AXi 1600 (Only this one, not any other wattage) which is adequately obscene priced :- ).
Right now no one else has anything comparable to offer, the ultra high-end options from EVGA and SUPERFLOWER, both excellent vendors are older designs. BeQuite showed Dark Power Pro 12 at CES but with current situation, I don't even think it will come this year.

This is going to be one hell of a machine!


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2020-03-30, 00:51:26
Reply #1033

lolec

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thanks for your time :)

Last question on the power supply, 1000 or 1200w ? MAX 2 video cards.

2020-03-30, 04:51:18
Reply #1034

dfcorona

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Hey lolec, If this helps you, I use to run only Samsung SSD's and was looking to go with the Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME also.  Since I have the Asus Alpha that you are asking about I went with Sabrent 2TB Rocket Nvme PCIe 4.0 with it's incredible speed.  So far it's been great, I bought two of them, not for raid because I don't see the point in that with how fast these drives are.  I was only worried about reliability cause Samsung is pretty good with that even though I have had a 1TB drive of theirs fail on me. But Sabrents Nvme is based on Toshiba’s BiCS4 96L TLC NAND. Plus you'll save a bit of money. Like Juraj said make sure you have a good backup.

On the Quadro RTX 5000, I think if I was going to go for a card like that I would consider the RTX Titan instead. They are similar in price and the RTX Titan has 24gb of vram and is faster. I think the only advantage the Quadro RTX 5000 has (if you even need it) over the RTX Titan is ECC memory.