Author Topic: Corona integration differences (Max/C4D)  (Read 782 times)

2018-11-06, 22:26:47

oddvisionary

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I recently finally switched to Max for some pro/personnal reasons that you may know already. This isn't the subject of this post anyway.

Obviously, my first renderer for Max will (is* , since yesterday) Corona. I've been using Corona Alpha C4D (yearsSssSss ago). Thanks for the 42 days free by the way, until I learn Max Interface.

I noticed quite obvious differences (to the eye). But before, let me be clear : all devs and Render Legion staff are doing a great job, I'm not here to discredit them or anything.

Compared to in-Cinema4D, I felt Corona being way faster, smoother, and "richer" in Max. It almost feels like I just bought a new and better CPU than my i7 5thGen...

- Faster : Parsing and rendering is overall faster, denoising faster (without denoiser, I'm talking samples), maybe it's related to how my CPU is being used, in max at his full potential or something ? No idea of what's going on under the hood.
- Smoother as there is some VFB interactivity differences. I can resize the VFB, it will adapt the scale without changing resolution settings. Smooth is also related to the speed above.
- Richer...This one is surprising. I haven't done any technical test as it's time consuming for me right now, but I really feel like specular/reflection are seriously crisper, depth of the falloff is also different (using high quality HDRI) colors are also much more deeper. Feels like going from sRGB to AdobeRGB if you wanna know.

This is based on "feelings" but I'm pretty sure there is technical explanations. I do like to specify : I did not switched to Max because the Beta of CoronaC4D isn't great, no no. I needed Max for work and felt limited on C4D but more on C4D related stuff than Corona itself (which can indirectly get affected but no big deal).

Is it possible when porting, that there can be core engine differences "affected" by the "portation" (if that even the right term...).

Anyway, I loved Corona before, loving it even more on Max.
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2018-11-07, 11:35:19
Reply #1

Rhodesy

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Im in exactly the same boat. Long time C4D and corona user but have recently switched to Max because for Arch Viz I cant fight the industry standard any more, there are too many good plugins and assets made for max. Forest pack and railclone are just a couple.

Re corona in Max I defo agree that its faster for scene parsing and material creating. I also really like the max slate editor (just as im leaving c4d and the arrival of the node editor). But I wonder if its down to max handling searching and loading textures faster than C4D and C4Ds insistence for constantly searching for textures which really slows things down.

VFB is smoother in max and quite stable even on a weak machine. Again could just be C4D limits.

Many things I prefer in Max natively like real world scale bitmaps. C4D really needs this. Also working in element mode which is like the select connected tool in C4D but its not a separate command. Also multisubs are really handy.

Many things I hate as well - expensive subscription and very buggy, but when it works its great. Also no native PSD saving and the tiff writing isnt linear I've just discovered which means all the passes lose their subtleness if that is a word.
   

2018-11-07, 15:22:33
Reply #2

oddvisionary

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Im in exactly the same boat (...) just as im leaving c4d and the arrival of the node editor

^ Exactly. I even published a feedback/Request for their C4D node editor : https://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php?topic=22286
I never used Max before and now I understand why they added "views" in C4D Corona editor and I understand better its purpose. I don't think it was needed to have a similar view-page-system though. Corona is still very much appreciated in C4D, we needed a good CPU PT Renderer on C4D, and a fast one. V-Ray should catch up soon as well now they got it back.

I'll certainly miss some stuff from C4D but I know how powerful Max can be and the tools available are very strong as well as you mentioned. Quite expensive for sure...Another good thing : we get the most recent updates in time...this time as there is no more porting-delay. Not bad at the end...I think Max is more external-renderer friendly than Cinema4D but the User Experience with the C4D interface is much more responsive. I saw other people videos/streams, it's not only me, it's jut Max and its weird 90s looking responsiveness.

Thanks for giving your insight!

PS : You sure about TIFF though? Have you tried exporting via Corona VFB? Still learning Max, did not had time to try this out yet.
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2018-11-07, 16:01:07
Reply #3

Rhodesy

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Exporting through the VFB just gives you the option of CXR or takes you to the max save dialogue, so no luck there Im afraid but Juraj has suggested saving as half float EXR which Im hoping gives the same effect.

Yes, instant access to all the toys! No more standing on the sidelines. It was much worse with Vray, that was always way behind!

Im finishing off a C4D project at the moment and its tedious going. Looking forward to getting back on to max.

I think C4D is a more well rounded program and rock solid. Max feels its age but I really like some of its work flow features. I was surprised that you just cant draw a length of spline like you would in AutoCAD though. Some of its snapping and inferencing is just as bad as C4D. But no regrets so far. I absolutely love railclone and forestpack. I could write for hours on the switch but probably too OT and I need to get on with some work!

2018-11-08, 09:01:40
Reply #4

nkilar

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Hey peeps,

I've been using both throughout the years and I can definitely say there are pros and cons to each. What I especially like about Corona for 3ds Max is that there are no threading issues. I've brought this up to the developers of the C4D plugin and they've said they are working on it. Granted, they are working on it for more than a year. For a few months I thought it was just me who was running into issues although I'm probably one of the few who have extreme issues.

When I switched to 3ds Max it was a whole different experience. The interactivity is a lot more like what you get in Octane in C4D where the IPR updates flawlessly. For me personally, using 72 threads in Corona for C4D makes the thing unusable - quite literally.

That being said, a lot of users don't report any problems but I do wonder whether they now how its "supposed" to work in the first place.

I had a similar impression about people who work with V-Ray for C4D and have never used V-Ray for 3ds Max. Some people actually find the current IPR implementation (can't change anything but the materials or something like that) really good. Its actually so 2010 though -_- (Not meant as a knock on the devs, they were doing their best with what they had).

Luckily from what I'm hearing the GPU renderers that are in C4D appear to be better implemented than most of the 3ds Max ones (Exception being V-Ray and F-Storm).

I work as a consultant too so I kind of need to know both c4d and 3ds max. I can't tell you how helpful that was for my professional growth as you can really see where the drawbacks of each software are at.

For example, the C4D community barely knows about the "Edit Poly" in the modifier stack and how useful something like that can be when it comes to client revisions. Contrary, the 3ds Max community has no idea how much easier it is to just use something as basic as a non destructive cloner to drive an animation. Funny but if you are more of technical peep its really fun to get to know different software, including Modo and Maya :)

edit:
@Rhodesy
I wouldn't say that the VFB "performance" is a limitation of  C4D. Other IPR renderers work awesomely even the ones that use the CPU (Indigo).

edit #2:
Oh and a quick tip for you two. Not sure if you are using it already but there is this neat script called CopyTo (https://3dground.net/prod/copyto-2211507) that enables you to copy between 3ds Max instances / Different scenes without having to export anything. Its what C4D does natively but 3ds Max just doesn't.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-08, 09:31:47 by nkilar »

2018-11-08, 10:00:32
Reply #5

Rhodesy

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Thanks for the heads up Nkilar. I have found copitor for copy and pasting (crazy that max has no provision for this). Copitor is good because you can have up to 6 different items on your clipboard and just select which one you want to use.

I agree about edit poly. I wish someone would make an arch viz centred modeller that would combine all the best bits of sketchup / max and C4D and others.

So far I can see why Max is the standard but many things still irk me and its gives away its age with some of the hoops you have to jump through.

2018-11-08, 10:32:43
Reply #6

oddvisionary

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Hey peeps,

I've been using both throughout the years and I can definitely say there are pros and cons to each. (...) When I switched to 3ds Max it was a whole different experience. The interactivity is a lot more like what you get in Octane in C4D where the IPR updates flawlessly.(...)
(...) I can't tell you how helpful that was for my professional growth as you can really see where the drawbacks of each software are at.

Exactly.

Off-Topic comment :
Talking about Indigo, this piece of science / tech and software is mindblowing. There is true geniuses behind it and I wish its development was being pushed further and wish them the best. I know it's not easy for this small team to implement the most complex algorithms and integrate them in Max/C4D. They already made some impressive exploits.
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2018-11-08, 22:07:16
Reply #7

Rhodesy

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Hey peeps,

I've been using both throughout the years and I can definitely say there are pros and cons to each. (...) When I switched to 3ds Max it was a whole different experience. The interactivity is a lot more like what you get in Octane in C4D where the IPR updates flawlessly.(...)
(...) I can't tell you how helpful that was for my professional growth as you can really see where the drawbacks of each software are at.

Exactly.

Off-Topic comment :
Talking about Indigo, this piece of science / tech and software is mindblowing. There is true geniuses behind it and I wish its development was being pushed further and wish them the best. I know it's not easy for this small team to implement the most complex algorithms and integrate them in Max/C4D. They already made some impressive exploits.

Funny thing about indigo is its developed about 200 metres from my office in newcastle, UK! I gave the demo a go last year and it is very well integrated in C4D thats for sure. I just struggled with some of the terminology, it seemed very scientific, which no doubt every render engine is under the hood but Corona does a fantastic job of hiding all the tech for idiots like me and at the same time producing the best results, quickly. I was already smitten by Corona so I didnt perhaps give it enough of a chance as I knew Corona was so great and has become and arch viz staple. I feel a bit bad as I should be supporting local tech and the indigo demo vid looks great, so I wish them well in a tough market.

2018-11-09, 04:05:57
Reply #8

oddvisionary

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Funny thing about indigo is its developed about 200 metres from my office in newcastle, UK!

You making me jealous now .

It's heavily physically based (light transport/spectral light computations) and is one of my favorite, sadly not as production ready as Corona is. And Corona is getting better and better as well and beside complicated-to-render caustics, it is very amazing to render with Corona. I like to work in wavelenghts with Octane and other capable engines, I miss a bit of that in Corona but it is not an downside on its own.

They did a great job (for Indigo) on the integrations but it's IMO in some kind of Beta development, there is a lot more to add to use it in production with ease and without a hundreads of workaround (Both Max and C4D).

OffTopic again, whoops.
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2018-11-09, 09:42:16
Reply #9

Rhodesy

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Ha yes sorry for the OT. Just thought I should set the record straight checking on indigos website again and it looks like the main office is in New Zealand but their second office is in Newcastle. I'd love to bump in to them in the pub I could chat about all this stuff for days!