Author Topic: Typical decomposition into render elements  (Read 11827 times)

2014-01-14, 13:47:27

Ondra

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I am redoing the render elements, and I am wondering, how should the TYPICAL decomposition of beauty pass into elements look like - what are the typical elements one separates the scene into? What I am currently planning is this:

diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflect + refract + translucency + emission

Do you think some of these should be divided further (for example direct/indirect translucency), or less (for example no separate direct/indirect diffuse)?


This will be just default setup of render elements, but there will be possibility to make custom render elements with custom contribution arrangements.
« Last Edit: 2014-01-14, 14:01:52 by Rawalanche »
Rendering is magic.
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2014-01-14, 14:09:16
Reply #1

mp5gosu

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Lighting + Global Illumination + Reflection + Specular + Refraction + Sub-Surface Scattering + Self Illumination
and full:
Diffuse * (Raw Light + Raw Global Illumination) + Raw Reflection * Reflection Filter + Specular + Raw Refraction * Refraction Filter + Sub-Surface Scattering + Self Illumination

source: http://vfxpedia.com/index.php?title=FAQ/Combining_3D_Passes

2014-01-14, 14:11:20
Reply #2

Ondra

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What is the difference between reflection and specular in this case?
Rendering is magic.
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2014-01-14, 14:18:42
Reply #3

mp5gosu

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Specular is a fake reflection and - of course - not really needed for physical renderers.

2014-01-14, 14:19:04
Reply #4

astudio

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How to split direct / indirect lighting in case of hdri?

2014-01-14, 14:24:59
Reply #5

pokoy

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I think the initial formula sounds good... but where's the shadow element? It's missing in each formula posted so far.

2014-01-14, 14:30:20
Reply #6

Ludvik Koutny

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I think the initial formula sounds good... but where's the shadow element? It's missing in each formula posted so far.

Compositing shadows does not work...  it never did, maybe in scanline, but even there, it caused a hell of a lot of problems. Only compositing that will give you correct result is ADDitive. Shadows can not be composed additively. It is extremely old legacy way of compositing where you did not expect to compose same result as you beauty pass.

2014-01-14, 14:31:07
Reply #7

DeadClown

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Just want to link this thread for completeness: http://corona-renderer.com/forum/index.php/topic,1858.msg13903.html#msg13903 ("Render Elements reordering")

Basic (as suggested):
diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflect + refract + translucency + emission

better:
Diffusecolor + diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflect GI + reflectDirect  + translucency + emission
reflect direct is the reflection part coming from direct light sources, already doable by dividing existing REs but would be a fine thing since it somehow feels like speculars (see linked thread above). This one would pretty much correspond to what people should know from other renderers.

all above that (more splitted-up elements) is personal taste imho - like normals and stuff like that.
« Last Edit: 2014-01-14, 14:35:04 by DeadClown »
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2014-01-14, 14:34:41
Reply #8

Ondra

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How to split direct / indirect lighting in case of hdri?

HDRI in Corona is the same light as all others, so it is direct
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2014-01-14, 14:44:14
Reply #9

bograt

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I would have to test this to confirm but in the past I think I tried to blend reflect and diffuse in Photoshop using linear dodge (add) and the results seemed inaccurate or incomplete.
It is sometimes very useful to output individual elements or light sources and blend in photoshop, nuke etc. using the add blending mode.
Cheers

Jules

2014-01-14, 14:44:55
Reply #10

Ondra

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I would have to test this to confirm but in the past I think I tried to blend reflect and diffuse in Photoshop using linear dodge (add) and the results seemed inaccurate or incomplete.
It is sometimes very useful to output individual elements or light sources and blend in photoshop, nuke etc. using the add blending mode.
Cheers

Jules

that is because you need to add them without gamma and then add new gamma
Rendering is magic.
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2014-01-14, 14:48:07
Reply #11

astudio

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May be it's not about this topic, but is it possible to get element for special material ID with AA? Just mask. It would help a lot in postproduction. Something like Render Mask script which I used with vray?

2014-01-14, 15:10:53
Reply #12

Ondra

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There are plenty of mask elements, so it can be done already
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2014-01-14, 15:32:17
Reply #13

loocas

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Don't forget that RAW passes are actually very important here because in most cases you will be utilizing the actual BEAUTY pass and dividing it into secondary passes. Otherwise your AA won't work, unfortunately.

2014-01-14, 16:11:06
Reply #14

andreupuig

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Is possible an element wich include direct lighting for every light/group of lights? (yes, something like vrayLightSelect element) It could be very useful for partially re-light the image without re-render everything.

2014-01-14, 16:29:16
Reply #15

Ondra

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you are missing the point, I am not asking which new render elements could be added, but what are the most basic ones one wishes to break beauty pass into most times.
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)

2014-01-14, 16:57:24
Reply #16

lmikkelb

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Agree with DeadClown
Diffusecolor + diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflectIndirect + reflectDirect  + translucency + emission
With the right gamma:)

2014-01-14, 18:32:21
Reply #17

Midge

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What you're proposing sounds good (diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflect + refract + translucency + emission)
Added to that a Background (For HDR BG's) option would be nice as well.

2014-01-14, 18:42:04
Reply #18

olejka2k

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I think main passes are :
Diffuse Color
Direct Lighting
Indirect Lighting (GI)
Reflection
Refraction
RAW of above channels
Specular
WireColor
RenderID
SelfIllumination

ZDepth
Ambient Occlusion
SSS
Normals
Velocity

Anyway the more elements you have (except main ones) the better it is, as it will make our life easier when it will come to composing :)
And some channels to see how Corona handles GI and samples. In VRay it is samplerate channel.

2014-01-14, 18:54:58
Reply #19

companioncube

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seeing as your taking the time to redo this now would be great to have Deep Data, world position pass and UV Coordinate pass. a lot of compositors would love you

2014-01-14, 21:52:33
Reply #20

The Pixel Artist

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I'll also agree with Deadclown's list, as well as olejka2k's full element layer list (except a MaterialID layer is missing).

Can Corona currently render out a MatID or Zdepth layer? (haven't had a chance to test this yet)
Adrian Alan Brown
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Behance Gallery: https://www.behance.net/thepixelartist

2014-01-14, 22:13:00
Reply #21

Paul Jones

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Blend re is very useful - for example is you want everything except reflection, and then comp the reflection on this.

2014-01-14, 23:01:29
Reply #22

astudio

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What you're proposing sounds good (diffuse direct + diffuse indirect + reflect + refract + translucency + emission)
Added to that a Background (For HDR BG's) option would be nice as well.

Very very very true.