Author Topic: Workstation  (Read 8798 times)

2019-07-19, 09:44:20

3dboomerang

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Hi,

I am toying with the idea of combining 'older' but still very relevant pc components that have become cheap beyond belief but will give me a much better performance of working inside of 3dstudio max.

Mainly because of the CPU speed. Not the count. Remember I want to have a significant increase in 3D Studio Max concerning viewport performance.

This is what I came up with so far:

FX-9590 8* 4.7Ghz // 150€

G.Skill Ares 16 GB DDR3-1866 Kit F3-1866C10D-16GAB // 90€ *4= 270€

MOBO ASRock 970M Pro3 // 70€

GPU ASRock Radeon RX 570 Phantom Gaming X OC 8GBb // 205€ *2= 410€

I would see an increase in signle core performance from my current threadripper 1950x running on 3.6Ghz to 4,7Ghz in the Fx 9590. My other rendernode is running an WX2990 @ 3.2Ghz

I imagine this would help me alot already I imagine? Downside being the memory is maxed out at DDR3 1866Mhz.

So if we are talking 3dstudio max WORKperformance, not rendering, am I right to assume this machine might kick alot more ass then the threadrippers running at lower Mhz but higher CPU counts?

2019-07-19, 15:12:06
Reply #1

JoeVallard

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FX-9590 scores a 110 in cinebench r15 single core.
1950x scores a 166 in cinebench r15 single core.
Just because the fx runs at higher frequency doesn't mean it's faster.
Also the FX-9590  in multicore scores 728 vs 3000 from the 1950x. You would severely be losing performance all across the board.

A Ryzen 3600 would be an upgrade in single thread, while still keeping budget low and thread count higher than old CPUs.

2019-07-19, 15:44:20
Reply #2

mraw

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There are two misconceptions here:
1. GHz doesn't necessarily equals CPU-speed. I own an old fx 8350. Sometimes I use it for comp renderings. Compared to the outcome it is pretty power hungry. I will get rid of the machine soon.
2. Max viewport performance will not explode because you have a new CPU a few percent faster than the old. Your user experience will most likely stay the same in most circumstances.

2019-07-19, 16:29:27
Reply #3

Juraj

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As everyone said, this is very poor idea :- ). There are some 5GHz Pentiums...

Regarding performance, even if I overclock my i9 to 4.5GHz, coupled with Titan, the performance of 3dsMax 2016 doesn't change, at all.
I've seen people trade their dual-xeons to i9 to avoid latencies and so...but imho either they had poor setups or they believe in placebo.

The biggest issues with these softwares are....the softwares. It's 30perc. Windows fault, and 70perc. 3dsMax fault.

To get the best out of 3dsMax, use GPU with high memory amount. 3dsMax will throttle to death the moment the GPU will have to swap, the difference is brutal (60FPS to 1FPS).
It doesn't care if you use 1050ti or 2080ti RTX. But it does care if you run out of 6GB Vram vs 11/12GB Vram. Which I found very easy to do with lot of textures shown in viewport, all turbosmooth modifiers On in viewport, etc..
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2019-07-20, 06:52:10
Reply #4

3dboomerang

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The software side I understood, the hardware part i didnt (dont). All i knew was max still uses single core performance for most things like modeling and modifiers and to that sense single core performance is more important to number of cores.
I swapped my 1050Ti 4Gb vram to a 1660Ti  6Gb vram recently and saw improvements as to how far I could take a scene but still I couldnt go as far as I wanted with my ArchViz scenes needing 50-65Gb RAM to render. Somewhere I'd have slow downs and it simply annoys the life out of me.

I am not a technical person, so thanks for the feedback I guess I'll be throwing more money towards my garphics again instead of pumping it all in a new WX2990...

Personaly I was waiting for the GPU era to really kick off for the heavy ArchViz scenes that most of us are putting together. Even the GPU discussion is getting to technical for me now, I used to look at the number of cuda cores (when Iray was first released and I was still usng Mental Ray) only. When reading what you guys are writing down now in the forums im lost for knowledge.

When checking single core performance I found following:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X would be a good investment I suppose. Anyone got this one in their systems?

Edit: also the graphics memory isnt expensive, i can have 8Gb vram for 170€
MSI Radeon RX570 ARMOR 8G OC

Going one step up is minimum 1200€ for 11Gb vram so definaltely not going there...





« Last Edit: 2019-07-20, 08:02:13 by 3dboomerang »

2019-07-20, 10:01:03
Reply #5

3dboomerang

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I have an additional question, im checking into the 7nm designs coming out, so going to the 7nm allows for less power comsumption and higher density leading to more cores.

If this is the case why are the 3rd gen ryzens limited to 16cores so far whilst reading they could allow up to 64cores? Is this a time where its better to wait for new hardware to come out? I feel like alot of new hardware will be coming out soon to lock in with this 7nm tech? (funny to see intel is really struggling to follow amd - times are changing)

7nm means shorter parsing times when rendering with Corona?

This is my current update on the initial build atm:

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X / 3.9 GHz // 440€ (best single thread performance)

ASRock Radeon RX 570 Phantom Gaming X OC 8GB // 200€ (high vram capacity)

Asus Prime X570-P // 200€ (PCIe 4.0) (better storage speeds and more lanes for additional tasks)

G.Skill Ripjaws V Black 16GB DDR4-3200 F4-3200C16S-16GVK // 4* 85€= 340€ (64Gb @ 3.2Mhz)

Corsair HX850 v2 // 164€ (modular 850Watt)

Am I interpreting things correct?
« Last Edit: 2019-07-20, 10:15:38 by 3dboomerang »

2019-07-20, 20:32:02
Reply #6

JoeVallard

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AMD Ryzen 7 3800X / 3.9 GHz // 440€ (best single thread performance)
ASRock Radeon RX 570 Phantom Gaming X OC 8GB // 200€ (high vram capacity)
Asus Prime X570-P // 200€ (PCIe 4.0) (better storage speeds and more lanes for additional tasks)

Might as well save a few a get the 3700x and just overclock it.
Unless you specifically want faster storage speeds your better off to save the money and go with a b450 or x470 board. If pci lanes were what you were after, better off just sticking with threadripper and pick up a 2nd gen on sale or wait for 3rd gen.
Stick with Nvidia cards as they support things like fast denoising in interactive rendering with Corona. There are a handful of Nvidia only things in 3d software applications. If you trying to keep cost low, getting a used/refurbished GTX 1070/1080 would be better, 1080ti best if you can fork over a little more money.

2019-07-20, 23:38:52
Reply #7

Juraj

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Everything that Joe said.

X570 is only worth it for the beefier VRMs (since PCI 4.0 isn't exactly useful right now or near future), which will start to shine mostly on the 3950X.
That's the kind of CPU I would wait for if you're after ultimate single-core focused workstation, it will probably not be toppled even by Zen2 Threadrippers should they still arrive in Q4.

nVidia is worth it for the Optix denoiser alone.
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2019-07-21, 11:37:59
Reply #8

3dboomerang

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Alright, although Im not a fan of overclocking since I'm not as tech savvy as most here, I'll humor it anyway and see if my supplier can do the setting up and overclocking in advance when putting everything together. Shouldnt be a problem. Ill add the graphics card myself once the system is put together.

So we talking:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X / 3.6 GHz - overclocked to 4,4Ghz (single core performance) // 369€
PRIME X470-PRO // 187€
2nd usage ASUS ROG STRIX-edition GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB OC // 450€
G.Skill Ripjaws V Black 16GB DDR4-3200 F4-3200C16S-16GVK // 4* 85€= 340€ (64Gb @ 3.2Mhz)
Corsair HX850 v2 // 164€ (modular 850Watt)
Corsair Carbide Clear 400C White // 100€
1Tb M2 memory (available already)

All in all roughly 1600€ for a computer that's actualy capable of working in max with a performance that's as up to date as possible.

Can you agree on the config?





2019-07-21, 14:10:57
Reply #9

Juraj

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I don't believe there will be any overclocking to be done on the latest Ryzens. That's why the turbo clocks are as high as they are, that's where their limit already lies, they are already binned.
I haven't read the reviews though, were people successful in overclocking them (outside of LN) ?

Good VRM on board and CPU cooling is all those Zen2 cpus needs to reach their potential.
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2019-07-21, 16:15:02
Reply #10

romullus

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Speaking of VRM, could somebody help me to choose sufficient MB for 3900x? I certainly don't want X570 and i think i don't need X470 either, but whenever i tell people that i want to pair Ryzen 9 with B450 board, they give me the strange look. I'm thinking about MSI B450 Carbon Pro AC. I'm not planning to do 24/7 rendering or anything like that, but i have some concerns about temperatures - my case of choise, is FD Define C (not the best airflow) and CPU cooler would be Scythe Mugen 5 PCGH edition (max 800 RPM, so not the beefiest thing). If that's not good enough combo for 3900x, i'd rather look for another MB with better VRM, because i like the case and cooler.
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2019-07-21, 17:25:17
Reply #11

Juraj

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The redditors always make nifty tier lists :- ). I did not check if someone updates this in meantime for Zen2.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9uc6bi/am4_b450x470_vrm_tier_list/

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2019-07-21, 17:32:24
Reply #12

Juraj

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I have to say I really like the Asus WS 570 Ace. Clean look, decent price (well...300 euro), good VRM (12+2). Could be more of these.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/

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2019-07-21, 20:07:54
Reply #13

JoeVallard

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I have to say I really like the Asus WS 570 Ace. Clean look, decent price (well...300 euro), good VRM (12+2). Could be more of these.

Do my eyes deceive me or is there no RGB lighting on this thing? o.O


@romullus Watched a youtube video of someone going over choices for mobos for Ryzen 3000, it seemed more of the B450 boards have bios flashback where the x470s didnt. Think it was the Gigabyte b450 Aorus Pro wifi that had most the features and bios flashback, might double check that one.

2019-07-21, 22:39:13
Reply #14

romullus

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Thanks Juraj, i've already saw this and nearly dozen similar charts, but my problem is, that i have no clue if board that is "ok for highly overclocked 2700X", would be also ok for stock 3900x. That is, how much overhead aditional 4 cores brings? I have a feeling, that it should be ok, but my feeling is based on nothing.

Thank you JoeVallard, i would like to avoid Gigabyte production, i have some unpleasant experience with that brand, besides it looks like that board has inferior VRM, compared to Carbon Pro.
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