Author Topic: CORONA SCATTER  (Read 18483 times)

2019-08-01, 04:09:37

Gr100

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Hi,

When are we getting Corona Scatter for Cinema 4D?

2019-08-01, 13:34:26
Reply #1

Vlad_Greben

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When are we getting Corona Scatter for Cinema 4D?

Hi, I support your question! I pay for the plugin, but it does not have all the features that are available in the crown version for 3ds max. This is frustrating (I would like to have a built-in, good scatter.

2019-08-01, 13:37:48
Reply #2

TomG

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We started with the things that there were no way to do in Cinema 4D - unlike Max, there are actually in-built solutions for scattering via the powerful tools in C4D that have no equivalent in Max (which is why we had to develop Scatter from scratch there). Since there was "some way to do this already" in C4D, we made the priority other things that simply didn't exist in C4D and that there was no way of doing. Going forward, we'll keep suggestions like this in mind though :)

2019-08-01, 13:55:48
Reply #3

nkilar

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We started with the things that there were no way to do in Cinema 4D - unlike Max, there are actually in-built solutions for scattering via the powerful tools in C4D that have no equivalent in Max (which is why we had to develop Scatter from scratch there). Since there was "some way to do this already" in C4D, we made the priority other things that simply didn't exist in C4D and that there was no way of doing. Going forward, we'll keep suggestions like this in mind though :)

If I may, I somewhat agree with the above but would respectfully disagree with the statement that the existing built in solutions are covered. Currently Corona doens't support multi-instancing and so any "proper" scattering is still unsupported - at least in my book.

Sure you can use the regular instance mode but you either get an unresponsive viewport with 10000 clones or really long preparation times. And 10000 clones barely cover a patch of grass on a backyard.

I'm also of the opinion that there would probably be a few requests less for Corona Scatter for C4D if we'd have multi-instance support. Although that being said, Corona scatter does have a few functions that we don't have in c4d (non overlapping bounding  boxes etc...)

Right now there is no way to scatter a fair amount of things in the scene with Corona without being faced with either super long preparation times or unresponsive viewport. That powerful toolset that C4D has built in is in my opinion currently not being utilized, at least for arch-viz purposes.

Hope it doesn't come out harsh because thats so not the point, just trying to spark a debate I  guess :)

2019-08-01, 14:23:10
Reply #4

TomG

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Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step. On the in-built tools not being as powerful (even with multi-instance), that was the case of putting focus between "You can do it already, but it's a bit trickier" things vs. "You can't do it at all" things. Focus went on the second, so while in-built scattering may make life easier or do more (again, outside of multi-instance), it was still possible in C4D to some degree (while not possible at all in Max without paying for extra tools). As things move forward with the "can't do it at all" things addressed, we'll have to see how everything else fits in :)

2019-08-01, 17:43:55
Reply #5

Gr100

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Fully agree with you nkilar. I’ve had it up to here with disappointments for these pass years.
We’ve struggled so much with these plugins, softwares; mostly with the fact that, they are developed and marketed as solutions which in most cases they cause more frustration than good.
We’ve invested about $10,000 in softwares and plug-ins over the past 6 years and another $25,000 in computer upgrades intended to compliment these softwares as well.
All we ask is that they work the way that they are intended to and not just be a money grab (no pun intended). We pay thousands of dollars purchasing Plugins that are suppose to compliment another and it’s the same thing all over again.
In a sense though; we are the ones
who failed. It was written in our business plan that we’ll never commit to single software for producing the same work
But we did. For that reason, we are suffering today. Approximately 6 months with virtually no work done, no new projects aquired and no hope of moving pass this rut. I’ve reached out to even developers over at FStorm, who unfortunately aren’t continuing with developing the plugin for C4D. I basically quit coming to this forum to post my concerns because they
rarely ever get resolved or end up with responses like these from the Corona team. A roadblock!

2019-08-01, 17:48:32
Reply #6

TomG

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Well, Corona for C4D was never advertised as having Scatter, so anyone purchasing knew what they would get (and not get). Also, lots of companies are making money and completing projects with Corona for Max and for C4D, including with grass, vegetation, rocks and other such elements, so clearly there is no total roadblock here in completing any kind of project. I am not sure what is wrong with our response - we have to prioritize what we work on, as nice as it would be to "do everything!" it's not humanly possible, so we prioritized things that are roadblocks (no way at all to do it in C4D) over those that can solved with existing tools. If that way of prioritizing upsets you, or an honest response like that, well....

2019-08-02, 05:41:42
Reply #7

3dkobi

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Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender

2019-08-02, 13:12:53
Reply #8

Exactly

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Back to Scatter and Instancing...

Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step.

I would like to see a fix for the "render instance" mode first as I am still seeing issues with this mode...especially with lights. If you add Multi Instance support at the same time then I am even more happy :-)
Render instance works in the IR but not in the VFB so I have to change all my cloner modes at render time which can be a bit of a pain...especially when you forget one of them :-)
This has been like it since Corona 3 and I check every new release for this being fixed and still no improvement.

Using C4D and Corona today with lots of instancing (most of my scenes) just makes things harder than they should be and I am sure you can appreciate that this is frustrating. Hopefully things will be implemented/fixed soon. Maybe you can give us an estimate on when you hope to have these changes?

Thanks


2019-08-02, 14:08:42
Reply #9

koubankeo

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Yes, we need it urgently. The roadmap is scheduled for Q4 / 2019, but no progress yet.

Exterior scene or many instances can be created, but with a lot of time and suffering. Also, I do not know if it is possible to speed up parsing time, but for a slightly larger scene it takes too long.

2019-08-02, 15:21:55
Reply #10

Cinemike

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If I am not doing everything wrong, multi-instances are supported in the "normal" render, just not with IR - I can live with that. For all other cases, there are still render instances and, for the viewport, there's the display tag. Multi-instances are R20+ only anyway, so a lot of people still live with renderinstances. And fully displaying multi-instances (and not as dots or boxes) will still slow down the viewport considerably with enough instances.
I would like to have the non-intersection function (harder to "mimiick" with mograph), but aside from that ...

2019-08-03, 11:51:56
Reply #11

Gr100

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Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

2019-08-03, 11:53:22
Reply #12

Gr100

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Ya, sounds like the multi-instance is more important as the first step. On the in-built tools not being as powerful (even with multi-instance), that was the case of putting focus between "You can do it already, but it's a bit trickier" things vs. "You can't do it at all" things. Focus went on the second, so while in-built scattering may make life easier or do more (again, outside of multi-instance), it was still possible in C4D to some degree (while not possible at all in Max without paying for extra tools). As things move forward with the "can't do it at all" things addressed, we'll have to see how everything else fits in :)


Multi- Instances is a problem regardless of workflow, regardless of whatever scatter plugin we’ve used used so far.

2019-08-14, 12:48:43
Reply #13

jamieirvin

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Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead. 
Core 3 HF2 - C4D R19 - OSX 10.13.2 - 64GB RAM

2019-08-14, 18:49:46
Reply #14

CBAS VISUAL

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Gr100 - Are you serious ? If you want to work in the 3d industry you'll have to invest a lot of money in software and computers...It doesn't matter what package you use. Do you think that max\maya users pays less than us on computers and softwares ? If you want to spend as little as possible - go with blender


Money is not a problem my friend, we need softwares that work... Corona scatter ain’t the only problem with Corona.

It just sounds to me like someone needs to learn to optimise their workflow...

Multi-Instances do work (for me at least).  They don't work in IR but I have been using them perfectly well in the VFB.  There's a weird querk when using render Instances with motion blur, sending cloned AWOL but otherwise it's been fine.  We are a studio of 7 artists, producing 7-10 projects per week, with hundreds of thousands of clones, massive amounts of vegetation in some scenes and we manage just fine.  I can't applaud the Corona team enough.  We had been using Vray for the past 11 years and switched to Corona during the early Beta release.  Corona has revolutionised the way and speed at which we work. 

I regularly peruse the forum and there are a lot of people bitching about seemingly small issues... this is one of them. Corona Scatter would be a lovely addition to the tool set.  But we already have MoGraph Cloner and you could use Laubwerk SurfaceSpread...  Both work brilliantly and efficiently. 

If you're having trouble with viewport lag then that comes down to your workflow and scene optimisation.  There are two simple solutions to this problem that spring to mind:

1 - you could establish your cloners (trees, grass etc) and once happy with the result, save in a separate temp file, then re-import for render. This keeps your scene light and test rendering fast.
2 - Add all your cloner groups to a layer and then simply turn off visibility and disable generators in the layer manager. This will significantly improve your viewport frame rate.

I have a wish list as long as my arm for many software applications, but things take time.  However, we are currently in a place within the industry that is exciting and things are changing fast.  Applications are becoming more synchronised and complimentary, just look at the developments in UE4, Substance, Quixel, as well as with Corona... A lot has happened in the last 2 years and i am really excited about the developments ahead.

+1