Poll

3 features you want the most:

PBR Style material (Disney, Unreal Engine, etc..)
91 (9.8%)
Refraction/Reflection working with masking render elements (CMasking_Mask,CTexmap, etc...)
57 (6.2%)
Render-time booleans (cut/slice objects)
52 (5.6%)
Dedicated CarPaint Shader
17 (1.8%)
Memory optimization (lower memory usage in 3ds Max; not out-of-core)
71 (7.7%)
GPU/Hybrid rendering
127 (13.7%)
Displacement improvements (2D displacement, autobump, memory efficiency, ...)
58 (6.3%)
Speed improvements
102 (11%)
Cryptomatte
30 (3.2%)
Geopattern
98 (10.6%)
Toon shader
35 (3.8%)
Reworking tone mapping (DSLR-style tonemapping)
109 (11.8%)
Interactive rendering in 3ds max viewport (with gizmos, object selection, manipulation, ...)
32 (3.5%)
Adding own materials to Corona Material Library
45 (4.9%)

Total Members Voted: 381

Author Topic: The most wanted feature?  (Read 203765 times)

2019-06-23, 04:38:13
Reply #660

Basshunter

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Love to see a wood shader one day!

2019-07-12, 22:21:05
Reply #661

oddvisionary

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Love to see a wood shader one day!

It doesn't make much sense. A renderer renders. Maybe you meant a wood procedural noise? There is some that can be implemented, but otherwise you will have to use texture softwares or libraries for that.
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2019-07-14, 22:45:10
Reply #662

Jpjapers

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Love to see a wood shader one day!

It doesn't make much sense. A renderer renders. Maybe you meant a wood procedural noise? There is some that can be implemented, but otherwise you will have to use texture softwares or libraries for that.

I agree a corona noise would be useful. Especially for conversions from fstorm etc.

2019-07-15, 14:26:42
Reply #663

bluebox

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Love to see a wood shader one day!

It doesn't make much sense. A renderer renders. Maybe you meant a wood procedural noise? There is some that can be implemented, but otherwise you will have to use texture softwares or libraries for that.

I believe he ment a custom BSDF shader. I remember seeing a discussion on that sopic somewhere but don't recall where exactly.

2019-07-16, 11:04:49
Reply #664

Juraj Talcik

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Yeah, there are 3 approaches to "Wood shader", it's not nonsense.

1). Procedural noise that resembles wood but otherwise does nothing special shading wise. You can get this for example in OSL in Max 2019+. Not interesting at all.
2). Procedural noise that resembles wood but actually creates multidirectional anisotrophy based on the produced wood grain. Someone told me this existed in Mental Ray as 3rd party addition ?

3). This would be dream and I don't know how exactly it would work (it would require modification or new BRDF). Shader that could produce multidirectional anisotrophy from any bitmap, so that we don't have to use stupid looking procedural generated wood (I have never...never fucking ever, seen even slightly good looking procedural wood, it's all shit).

Even fabrics have multidirectional anisotrophy that can't be produced right now, but that's much simpler two-directional (opposite directions usually, like Silk fabric), but wood have super unique anisotrophy that no other material have. Why do you think all the wood shaders look like crap if it's natural wood :- ) ? We can only render glossy wood with coating/varnish/etc.. but good luck rendering natural rough planks like Dinesen Fir to actually look like Dinesen Fir. No way, at all.

You can try to simulate the effect with combination of micro displacement and SSS (Wood has pretty noticeable SSS) but it's not exactly it.
(Similarly, you can produce bidirectional anisotrophy of Silk fabric by using F-Storm GeoPattern instead of texture surface)
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2019-07-16, 15:48:29
Reply #665

Jpjapers

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You can try to simulate the effect with combination of micro displacement and SSS (Wood has pretty noticeable SSS) but it's not exactly it.
(Similarly, you can produce bidirectional anisotrophy of Silk fabric by using F-Storm GeoPattern instead of texture surface)

The geopattern fabrics s**t all over every other renderers approach to microdetail in my opinion. Theres absolutely nothing else that works as welland i really with we had it in corona or at least a third party plugin for max that achieved the same thing.

2019-07-16, 16:42:32
Reply #666

lupaz

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+1 for microdetail, with bump, or anything. But to me that would be at the top of the list.

2019-07-16, 22:49:32
Reply #667

agentdark45

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+1 for microdetail, with bump, or anything. But to me that would be at the top of the list.

This x100000

I've been spoiled by how well FStorm handles bump mapping, and bitmap filtering/sharpness in general. Perfect example is how you can create an anisotropic metal just by using bump maps (and it doesn't break at different resolutions/zoom levels).

Even with 8K wood floor bitmaps for example, for some reason Corona just can't get as sharp without the material turning to a blur at a slight distance, while FStorm retains full detail. I've done a 1:1 comparison and the difference is night and day.
Vray who?

2019-07-17, 14:48:07
Reply #668

burnin

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Here are relevant papers:

Procedural wood textures (2015) by Albert J. Liu, Stephen R. Marschner, Victoria E. Dye

Quote
Existing bidirectional reflectance distribution function (BRDF) models are capable of capturing the distinctive highlights produced by the fibrous nature of wood. However, capturing parameter textures for even a single specimen remains a laborious process requiring specialized equipment. In this paper we take a procedural approach to generating parameters for the wood BSDF. We characterize the elements of trees that are important for the appearance of wood, discuss techniques appropriate for representing those features, and present a complete procedural wood shader capable of reproducing the growth patterns responsible for the distinctive appearance of highly prized ``figured'' wood. Our procedural wood shader is random-access, 3D, modular, and is fast enough to generate a preview for design.

Source: arXiv:1511.04224v2 [cs.GR]


Simulating the structure and texture of solid wood (2016) by Albert Julius Liu, Zhao Dong, Miloš Hašan, Steve Marschner

Quote
Wood is an important decorative material prized for its unique appearance. It is commonly rendered using artistically authored 2D color and bump textures, which reproduces color patterns on flat surfaces well. But the dramatic anisotropic specular figure caused by wood fibers, common in curly maple and other species, is harder to achieve. While suitable BRDF models exist, the texture parameter maps for these wood BRDFs are difficult to author---good results have been shown with elaborate measurements for small flat samples, but these models are not much used in practice. Furthermore, mapping 2D image textures onto 3D objects leads to distortion and inconsistencies. Procedural volumetric textures solve these geometric problems, but existing methods produce much lower quality than image textures. This paper aims to bring the best of all these techniques together: we present a comprehensive volumetric simulation of wood appearance, including growth rings, color variation, pores, rays, and growth distortions. The fiber directions required for anisotropic specular figure follow naturally from the distortions. Our results rival the quality of textures based on photographs, but with the consistency and convenience of a volumetric model. Our model is modular, with components that are intuitive to control, fast to compute, and require minimal storage.

Source: 10.1145/2980179.2980255

Video:



Final thought
Yes, microsurface details, scratches, glints, distorted/directed anisotropy, spectrality ;) ... all this will sooner or later become inadmissible in archvis, product vis, advertising in general. It's the road to full CGI realism. For example, check the details on the latest Toy Story 4 :)


The finer the displays get (bigger, more precise), the greater the need for details.

&
BTW, anyone knows on what studies/papers is Corona's hair based on? Marschner's?

2019-07-19, 16:39:12
Reply #669

Juraj Talcik

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+1 for microdetail, with bump, or anything. But to me that would be at the top of the list.

This x100000

I've been spoiled by how well FStorm handles bump mapping, and bitmap filtering/sharpness in general. Perfect example is how you can create an anisotropic metal just by using bump maps (and it doesn't break at different resolutions/zoom levels).

Even with 8K wood floor bitmaps for example, for some reason Corona just can't get as sharp without the material turning to a blur at a slight distance, while FStorm retains full detail. I've done a 1:1 comparison and the difference is night and day.

Could you please post the comparison in separate thread if you ever get the time ?

I am really super interested in this. Bump strength and texture filtering are greatly important and annoying to me. I've been using the 'Bicubic' filter in CoronaBitmap lately and BumpConverted to circumvent these issues but I don't think I am very satisfied.
Things still look very flat tome.

I would be very grateful, imho this is super important because it's such a basic and I feel we are still in middle ages with it (in general).
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2019-07-19, 16:48:30
Reply #670

Jpjapers

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+1 for microdetail, with bump, or anything. But to me that would be at the top of the list.

This x100000

I've been spoiled by how well FStorm handles bump mapping, and bitmap filtering/sharpness in general. Perfect example is how you can create an anisotropic metal just by using bump maps (and it doesn't break at different resolutions/zoom levels).

Even with 8K wood floor bitmaps for example, for some reason Corona just can't get as sharp without the material turning to a blur at a slight distance, while FStorm retains full detail. I've done a 1:1 comparison and the difference is night and day.

Could you please post the comparison in separate thread if you ever get the time ?

I am really super interested in this. Bump strength and texture filtering are greatly important and annoying to me. I've been using the 'Bicubic' filter in CoronaBitmap lately and BumpConverted to circumvent these issues but I don't think I am very satisfied.
Things still look very flat tome.

I would be very grateful, imho this is super important because it's such a basic and I feel we are still in middle ages with it (in general).

I remember trying to replicate a fstorm tutorial in corona for brushed metal and unfortunately was limited by the bump resolution for the anisotropy.

2019-07-19, 17:07:45
Reply #671

Juraj Talcik

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Quote
Yes, microsurface details, scratches, glints, distorted/directed anisotropy, spectrality ;) ... all this will sooner or later become inadmissible in archvis, product vis, advertising in general. It's the road to full CGI realism. For example, check the details on the latest Toy Story 4 :)

Yup, all this ! Now that we have almost all features (Hair&Volumes shading, Caustics,..) and they are improving the displacement as we speak it's time to bring the focus down to shading.

-The PBR shader and subsequently improve all aspects of it, including BRDF. I can't stand Lambert diffuse shading to start with. Fabric sheen, coating.. then move onto glints, directed anisotropy, etc..

Most of production will move to real-time soon if it didn't already so the only strong point of raytracing will remain absolute photorealism. 

Though I could still use better tonemapping...
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2019-07-19, 17:20:34
Reply #672

Jpjapers

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Quote
Yes, microsurface details, scratches, glints, distorted/directed anisotropy, spectrality ;) ... all this will sooner or later become inadmissible in archvis, product vis, advertising in general. It's the road to full CGI realism. For example, check the details on the latest Toy Story 4 :)

Yup, all this ! Now that we have almost all features (Hair&Volumes shading, Caustics,..) and they are improving the displacement as we speak it's time to bring the focus down to shading.

-The PBR shader and subsequently improve all aspects of it, including BRDF. I can't stand Lambert diffuse shading to start with. Fabric sheen, coating.. then move onto glints, directed anisotropy, etc..

Most of production will move to real-time soon if it didn't already so the only strong point of raytracing will remain absolute photorealism. 

Though I could still use better tonemapping...

Agreed on all points. Would love some more complexity to the corona material like complex fresnel siger style. Clearcoat for definite and geopattern for fabrics tbh. Im so jealous of the fabrics in fstorm.