Poll

3 features you want the most:

PBR Style material (Disney, Unreal Engine, etc..)
37 (13.5%)
Refraction/Reflection working with masking render elements (CMasking_Mask,CTexmap, etc...)
24 (8.7%)
Render-time booleans (cut/slice objects)
16 (5.8%)
Dedicated CarPaint Shader
1 (0.4%)
GPU/Hybrid rendering
41 (14.9%)
Speed improvements
21 (7.6%)
Cryptomatte
14 (5.1%)
Geopattern
40 (14.5%)
Sketch/Toon shader
11 (4%)
Reworking tone mapping (DSLR-style tonemapping)
52 (18.9%)
Interactive rendering in 3ds max viewport (with gizmos, object selection, manipulation, ...)
4 (1.5%)
Adding own materials to Corona Material Library
14 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 105

Author Topic: The most wanted feature?  (Read 230538 times)

2019-01-04, 16:15:36
Reply #600

lupaz

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maybe they got instructions from above, maybe... i will just shut up.

AKA Vlado?

The amount of new features that Vray had since they joined forces with Render Legion is impressive. It made a come back.
I don't know if it was just a coincidence or not. But I really hope Vray is not taking strength from Corona.
Fstorm reminds me of Corona before the merger.
With that said I love Corona and have nothing but respect to the Corona team.

2019-01-04, 16:26:25
Reply #601

bluebox

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Thanks for taking the time to answer Tom.

One more thing I wanted to add. As I mentioned before I believe that people invest a LOT of time by committing to a specific rendering engine.

Therefore I do not agree that any Road Map should be treated loosely. I believe it should reflect the development road as closely as possible. Even further than the next upcoming release.
In that way noone gets disappointed in the long run, because he or she can check if their personal vision of  developing their own company alligns with the development road of the engine they committ to.
This will be of course more or less of an interest for different people depending if they do more specialised niche type of services or just general rendering.

And concerning hobbits, I mean roadmaps ;) When can we expect an update to the existing one ? Are you guys close on deciding next things that will get done ?
« Last Edit: 2019-01-04, 16:34:05 by bluebox »

2019-01-04, 16:52:30
Reply #602

TomG

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That's a good take on the roadmap, ty for the feedback on that. I will have to leave it to the developers on how close it is to seeing an update based on latest thinking about what can fit into Corona 4 :)

On the previous post, the merger has not changed our team, and the Chaos Group and Render Legion teams are separate. They don't cannibalize time or people from each other, we just share ideas. So no, V-Ray is not taking strength from Corona :)

On the comparison to FStorm, just a note that it much easier to add exciting new features when a render engine is younger. As it gets older, the big ticket items are already done - but also the platform becomes much more complex, and adding a new feature means making sure it doesn't break the other 1,276 features (while when earlier in development, that's "make sure it doesn't break the other 312 features"). Again, the merger has nothing to do with this, just to do with Corona Renderer being a more mature product now, and the associated caution that has to come with the fact that many production studios are relying on it so we have to be super careful not to break anything people depend upon. Hopefully this puts your mind at rest :)

EDIT - also, that means that change is not to do with the merger either, again it's just to do with maturity and all that comes with it ;)

2019-01-04, 17:16:31
Reply #603

lupaz

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Got it.
Thanks Tom.
Also Fstorm is being pushed by the innovation in GPU, which doesn't seem to be as fast with CPU unfortunately.

"Caution"...I'm not sure I like the sound of that :)

I totally understand. And I wouldn't like a bloated software either. In fact, the material library is something I never use for example.

As you said corona is a well rounded engine. It works great.
But I would love to see what is that long term research that I heard about.
It would be great to have improvements more than features too. For example, a better AA, or better bump mapping, or a better BRDF. (please note I'm saying OR, not AND)
I can see how those things could break the code, but I wish the team lots of courage :)
« Last Edit: 2019-01-04, 17:32:01 by lupaz »

2019-01-04, 18:01:26
Reply #604

TomG

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Ah, well by "Caution" I just mean "extensive, very detailed testing and QA" - not "reluctance to do something" :)

2019-01-05, 02:37:37
Reply #605

zokni

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The opinion of a guy:

Let me tell you my honest opinion, after that anyone can kill me if he/she wants to.

First of all, I love to work in Corona and I respect you guys. I worked at a software development company for a longer time 120 years ago I know a little bit how things go.

I use Corona every day in the office. Almost a year ago, fortunately I was able to persuade my boss to switch to Corona from Vray.
I was a subscriber as well for a long time, much more than a year as far as I remember.

But how the development goes it makes me a dissapointed. Lets see what happened in Corona 2 one by one with all my respect.

- Advanced camera/bokeh effects - Nice, thats what we like to see, it adds to the overall quality, unfortunately our clients atm don't really want to pay for closeup DOF shots, but its a nice feature. I don't really use it, but thumbs up.

- Corona toolbar - Cool, it should have arrived no later than in Corona 1.3

- Memory optimization - Adds nothing to the overall quality, not a new feature, it helps people who have less RAM.

- Heterogenous media - Long avaited feature, I know, but in archviz (main platform I think most of the guys here from that field) in 99% of the projects good for nothing.

- Vray compatibility - Nice to have that but overall its good for nothing, not an important thing to have. We have a nice converter, I never use Vray stuff in my Corona scene I always convert them from Vray before I merge. Probably it was a "request" from Chaos Group so we can understand that. But again, nothing new, doesn't speed up your render, adds nothing to the overall quality.

- Corona Material Library Update 2 - see as above. (not a new feature, adds nothing to the overall quality or speed. (OK, not completely true but if you are not a newbie you know how to create nice shaders).

- Bugfixes - Always nice to have those.

- Displacement optimization - Cool.


For me, that was the point, after Corona 2 has been released when I cancelled my personal subscription because the reasons I've mentioned above.

Now you guys have released Corona 3 and the main new feature is the denoiser what is a generic thing (I mean it's the implementation of nVidia's technology, it's a common thing these days, if you have it cool, if you don't it's a shame), the rest (according to quality or speed) nothing too special. Autombump is nice anyways.

A like to work with the real time denoiser in the office so I have decided to renew my personal subscription as well but for me, thats the only real advantage of Corona 3, the other things, like the new multimap feature or the another Corona lister are nice to have but with a little bit of more work or with 3rd party thingies you were able to do those before Corona 3 as well.

I can only hope we can see something really cool in Corona 4 what finally would add some real thing to the overall quality. (like PBR thingies, caustics, tonemapping, or things like Geopattern)

I would love to hear some response from you.

Peace and I love everybody.



« Last Edit: 2019-01-05, 03:17:57 by zokni »

2019-01-05, 17:29:39
Reply #606

lupaz

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You forgot the improvements of SSS. It got much better and is a major plus for realism.

I have the impression that the vray compatibility and all the openvdb and Inside volume has to do with Chaos Group wanting to sell PhoenixFD.

« Last Edit: 2019-01-05, 20:07:04 by lupaz »

2019-01-05, 23:38:15
Reply #607

zokni

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You forgot the improvements of SSS. It got much better and is a major plus for realism.

I have the impression that the vray compatibility and all the openvdb and Inside volume has to do with Chaos Group wanting to sell PhoenixFD.

Your comment was a little bit different before you've modified it. If you don't share your opinion things will never change, thats why I did it as well. I would like to find out if I am the only one out there with that opinion or not.
Nothing bad will happen if you tell them the things, nobody will ban you or cancel your subscription. I would like to make Corona better, thats all what I want.
Life is pretty simple, they sell something, we buy something.

Who else share their opinion with them if not us?
« Last Edit: 2019-01-05, 23:42:42 by zokni »

2019-01-06, 16:11:52
Reply #608

lupaz

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You forgot the improvements of SSS. It got much better and is a major plus for realism.

I have the impression that the vray compatibility and all the openvdb and Inside volume has to do with Chaos Group wanting to sell PhoenixFD.

Your comment was a little bit different before you've modified it. If you don't share your opinion things will never change, thats why I did it as well. I would like to find out if I am the only one out there with that opinion or not.
Nothing bad will happen if you tell them the things, nobody will ban you or cancel your subscription. I would like to make Corona better, thats all what I want.
Life is pretty simple, they sell something, we buy something.

Who else share their opinion with them if not us?

I felt I wasn't being constructive.

In any case, I think they get the picture:
We're frustrated with the recent development not being targeted towards archviz, or there's no development towards improving the quality (realism).

In general it seems that innovation stopped. Compare features in 1.5 and 1.6 with those of 2 and 3... It's pretty obvious to me.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-06, 16:25:19 by lupaz »

2019-01-07, 00:48:35
Reply #609

Jpjapers

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I agree that there seems to be a fair chunk of development in areas that the majority of the user base (at least based on the cross section of this forum) would rarely use or notice in an already powerful and fast render engine and there seems to be less development recently on things that would make the renderer more competitive and useful to its archviz user base or at least the majority of it.

For example 2d displacement, clipper and pbr material have been asked for for a long time. Autobump and openvdb are cool but nowhere near as useful in the majority of cases. I completely understand when Tom says they have to be careful not to break the core features of corona we all rely on day to day to make money so smaller features are obviously going to be less risky than overhauling the way corona outputs colour or handles pbr. Having to take a 'roll your own' approach to pbr in the mat editor is just a little cumbersome however and there's no doubt in my mind that the corona team are considering it for a future release. Hopefully v4.

 Archviz is such a huge part of the user base here obviously and there are features that should have priority that have been pushed back release after release. It feels as though the thing that brought so many to corona was the fact that it fit so well in the Archviz pipeline but for taking that huge commitment of converting an entire production house to Corona there seems to be little payoff in terms of new archviz-centric features since v2. Perhaps we were spoiled with them initially.

I emplore the devs to be a little more open with the user base about what features are being seriously considered for each release and what are less likely to make it into the next version. its only recently more and more users here have began voicing these frustrations. I feel they are entirely justified considering how often large features from this poll are missing from major releases despite being highly voted for years.

Just as a closing note I said it before that memory optimisation and speed improvements shouldn't be on this poll at all as it should be expected at each release. When the poll was reset i mentioned this because they were dominating the poll and yet again they are scoring highly and it feels like a waste of a vote. It subtracts from what the thread should be about. New features.
I also still think a 'small annoying things' thread would be great for voting on smaller workflow adjustments that aren't new features or bugs.

This is all with the absolute highest respect for the team and the work you do. For. me, corona has made working in 3d so much more fun and creative again and for that I thank you!
« Last Edit: 2019-01-07, 18:07:56 by jpjapers »

2019-01-07, 02:31:48
Reply #610

zokni

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We definitely could use a more trustworthy and reliable development roadmap (trello).

I am pretty sure I am not the only one who checks trello time by time for the planned new features. It even worse (it happened to someone else I don't remember who was it) if you make some project plans according to the promised features and then that feature cancelled later.

Again, I know its easy to say, much harder to do. More or less I know why it is like that, sometimes you change something and 20 other features will stop working and the deadline is a deadline for everybody. But try to be just a little bit more accurate with it if possible.

It is very disappointing when you promise a feature (caustics is a good example) in every major release and then it just pushed forward and forward and forward.

I am not calling you to account I am begging, please work together a bit more closely with your customers and try to listen more to their requests.


PS.: One more thing. Probably you have already noticed that from my grammar that english is not my native language. I was born in eastern Europe and that time Czechoslovakia still existed.
I exactly know what meaningless polls mean.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-07, 04:20:05 by zokni »

2019-01-07, 08:51:17
Reply #611

Jpjapers

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We definitely could use a more trustworthy and reliable development roadmap (trello).

I am pretty sure I am not the only one who checks trello time by time for the planned new features. It even worse (it happened to someone else I don't remember who was it) if you make some project plans according to the promised features and then that feature cancelled later.

Again, I know its easy to say, much harder to do. More or less I know why it is like that, sometimes you change something and 20 other features will stop working and the deadline is a deadline for everybody. But try to be just a little bit more accurate with it if possible.

It is very disappointing when you promise a feature (caustics is a good example) in every major release and then it just pushed forward and forward and forward.

I am not calling you to account I am begging, please work together a bit more closely with your customers and try to listen more to their requests.


PS.: One more thing. Probably you have already noticed that from my grammar that english is not my native language. I was born in eastern Europe and that time Czechoslovakia still existed.
I exactly know what meaningless polls mean.

I'd probably recommend not making project plans based on an arbitrary road map of software you don't control.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-07, 09:18:36 by jpjapers »

2019-01-07, 12:10:42
Reply #612

bluebox

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Agree on most things in at least 10 previous posts.

We are the ones tat got backlashed by this trello-promise of clipper/slicer. The thing is, at the time everything that was on the trello road map was pushed into stable releases so we had no reasons to restrain ourselves from taking it serious :)

Maybe the team wasn't aware of how serious people take this kind of stuff.

Anyway, our fears/doubts are voiced. I encourage everyone that feels the same to speak up, and in the meantime I'm eagerly waiting for the update of the road map or at least some kind of real debate on what features the majority of users would want implemented in upcoming releases.

2019-01-07, 12:33:54
Reply #613

TomG

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Howdy all!

Great to hear your opinions, ty for sharing those! A few thoughts in reply :)

- Software developers have two options really - say nothing about what they might be working on to save disappointment when things change, but it leaves all the users in the dark; or be open and share what we are / might / would like to work on, which keeps the development process open to users but then does have disappointment when things change (and it's always WHEN and not IF, things always change with software development).

We chose the second, but of course that has the catch that then people can get upset if something gets moved back. We still think that is the "lesser of two evils" and so we'll continue to share. We do our best to keep Trello updated, we'll see if we can improve how we do that.

No matter how much we improve it though, Trello or any other announcement of things we'd like to work on - or even things we are working on - should never, ever be taken as a promise, as someone called it. Even a long way into developing something, it can all be found to be unworkable and have to be abandoned. So, we will share what we are doing, but do please remember the realities of development when share. We can't stress enough that it is usually impossible to promise anything in development, and so we never do, until it's actually in a release :)

- On features and their priorities, everyone always has their own opinion. For example, there was an opinion here that the NVIDIA Denoiser was really nothing major, just something generic. Well first, it still takes a lot to implement it, just because it is NVIDIA's Denoiser doesn't mean making it work well with Corona is trivial. Next, in fact, our implementation is better than most ;) We get good denoising in reflections and refractions, that is not always achieved by others using the same NVIDIA denoiser.

And next, this "just a generic feature" to one person is a huge game changer to others, as we've heard from other users. So what is the greatest thing since sliced bread to one person, is just some generic feature to someone else. This is true for all features of course, the NVIDIA one is just an example. We could pick the material library too, also said by someone in the post to be not very important except for newbies, while we've heard from major archviz studios that it is an awesome addition.

So in that regard, the last few releases have had their features that many DO regard as game changing, and critical to their workflow (and yep, that's archviz workflows!) Everyone will always see a feature differently. You can't please all of the people all of the time, as the saying goes :)

- Don't forget that we also mentioned a lot of work went into things behind the scenes to improve stability, and clean up the code base. This becomes necessary once the software grows past a certain point (if you want to keep the code stable, easy to add new features to with a minimum of risk of breaking things, and so on). Sure, we could avoid doing such "busy work" as it isn't very visible or exciting, and pile new feature on top of new feature, but this brings a lot of pain and hardship for users down the line (I am sure everyone can think of software where this has happened, and is aware of how that plays out!)

This kind of work may not be that exciting in that release, but it sure is exciting further down the line when innovation can continue!

- We ain't done being revolutionary and groundbreaking :) Whether the last few releases have got you excited or not, there will be things coming in the future that will. That will be made possible in part because of keeping the code lean and mean. Also, some of these things take time, they involve pure research first - for example, our planned implementation of caustics (planned, not promised ;) ). Our plan is to make it easier, and faster, than what we are used to for caustics. Whether that could have been done a year ago is open to question, it took research, and testing, to see if this was even feasible. So, sometimes the overnight revolution to rendering takes a while to happen :)

2019-01-07, 16:11:15
Reply #614

Jpjapers

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Howdy all!

Great to hear your opinions, ty for sharing those! A few thoughts in reply :)

- Software developers have two options really - say nothing about what they might be working on to save disappointment when things change, but it leaves all the users in the dark; or be open and share what we are / might / would like to work on, which keeps the development process open to users but then does have disappointment when things change (and it's always WHEN and not IF, things always change with software development).

We chose the second, but of course that has the catch that then people can get upset if something gets moved back. We still think that is the "lesser of two evils" and so we'll continue to share. We do our best to keep Trello updated, we'll see if we can improve how we do that.

No matter how much we improve it though, Trello or any other announcement of things we'd like to work on - or even things we are working on - should never, ever be taken as a promise, as someone called it. Even a long way into developing something, it can all be found to be unworkable and have to be abandoned. So, we will share what we are doing, but do please remember the realities of development when share. We can't stress enough that it is usually impossible to promise anything in development, and so we never do, until it's actually in a release :)

- On features and their priorities, everyone always has their own opinion. For example, there was an opinion here that the NVIDIA Denoiser was really nothing major, just something generic. Well first, it still takes a lot to implement it, just because it is NVIDIA's Denoiser doesn't mean making it work well with Corona is trivial. Next, in fact, our implementation is better than most ;) We get good denoising in reflections and refractions, that is not always achieved by others using the same NVIDIA denoiser.

And next, this "just a generic feature" to one person is a huge game changer to others, as we've heard from other users. So what is the greatest thing since sliced bread to one person, is just some generic feature to someone else. This is true for all features of course, the NVIDIA one is just an example. We could pick the material library too, also said by someone in the post to be not very important except for newbies, while we've heard from major archviz studios that it is an awesome addition.

So in that regard, the last few releases have had their features that many DO regard as game changing, and critical to their workflow (and yep, that's archviz workflows!) Everyone will always see a feature differently. You can't please all of the people all of the time, as the saying goes :)

- Don't forget that we also mentioned a lot of work went into things behind the scenes to improve stability, and clean up the code base. This becomes necessary once the software grows past a certain point (if you want to keep the code stable, easy to add new features to with a minimum of risk of breaking things, and so on). Sure, we could avoid doing such "busy work" as it isn't very visible or exciting, and pile new feature on top of new feature, but this brings a lot of pain and hardship for users down the line (I am sure everyone can think of software where this has happened, and is aware of how that plays out!)

This kind of work may not be that exciting in that release, but it sure is exciting further down the line when innovation can continue!

- We ain't done being revolutionary and groundbreaking :) Whether the last few releases have got you excited or not, there will be things coming in the future that will. That will be made possible in part because of keeping the code lean and mean. Also, some of these things take time, they involve pure research first - for example, our planned implementation of caustics (planned, not promised ;) ). Our plan is to make it easier, and faster, than what we are used to for caustics. Whether that could have been done a year ago is open to question, it took research, and testing, to see if this was even feasible. So, sometimes the overnight revolution to rendering takes a while to happen :)

Thanks tom. Just as an appendix to my two cents above im not saying what you guys have achieved thus far isnt awesome and game changing and im certain everyone finds use in different areas of the software otherwise the features wouldnt be there. I think the issue arises when you have this poll here that is massively user centric as you guys have always been, and there ends up being features included in the newest releases that werent on the poll and only a few have use for vs the larger and obviously harder to implement features. That seems to be the disconnect if you break it down. Again thanks for everything you guys have done so far! I dont want to sound ungrateful for the sheer amount of user interaction yourself and all the Corona team do. Its really valuable to have this level of contact. If only more companies were like this . Looking at you Autodesk.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-07, 16:18:07 by jpjapers »