Author Topic: Juraj's Renderings thread  (Read 328695 times)

2016-02-06, 16:08:15
Reply #405

Rotem

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The first day I started using VFB+ I sent email to author about these two issues :- )  Halo at low values, and the fact that even the smallest value 0.01 is not exactly small. Not in the narrow sense that wide lense would produce. Still pretty blurry for archviz stuff.
Never got a reply but I hope he eventually find some time to look into it. It's really great product, I really hope it has some user-base.

I'm sorry to say I never received that e-mail. Please try using the contact form on my website.

Regarding lowest possible value, I can easily add another significant digit in the amount spinner so you can enter 0.001 rather than 0.01.

Regarding halo artifacts, it's many times one of:
  • You are using a filtered (anti-aliased) depth buffer.
  • The depth buffer is configured in the wrong direction (white is near vs. white is far), there's a selector button for it in the DOF settings.
If neither of these are the issue, please post an example and I'll try to recreate it.
« Last Edit: 2016-02-06, 16:12:01 by Rotem »

2016-02-06, 16:52:11
Reply #406

Rotem

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I've also been able to confirm the two following issues:

  • EXRs are loaded back with incorrect gamma.
  • 'Send to Photoshop' comes in with incorrect gamma.

I'll see what I can do about these issues for the next release.

2016-02-06, 18:15:44
Reply #407

Juraj Talcik

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Regarding halo artifacts, it's many times one of:
  • You are using a filtered (anti-aliased) depth buffer.
  • The depth buffer is configured in the wrong direction (white is near vs. white is far), there's a selector button for it in the DOF settings.
If neither of these are the issue, please post an example and I'll try to recreate it.

That is interesting, I've seen the advice about filtering (disabled it) but not the one direction. That one I kept default, which I think is white-near. (the other, is inverted, used for fog masking).

I used the website form to send email :- ) Needless to say I am always distrustful of them compared to traditional mail.
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2016-02-06, 18:18:13
Reply #408

Rotem

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I used the website form to send email :- ) Needless to say I am always distrustful of them compared to traditional mail.

I wonder how many other messages I haven't received from that form. :\
I tried to PM you my e-mail, but it wouldn't allow me. Perhaps you've blocked that option on the forum.

2016-02-06, 19:52:05
Reply #409

ikercito

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Im away until tomorrow, but i'll try your tips on DOF as soon as i can. Adding another digit should help with more subtle dof, right now i find it quite agressive. I hope the EXR gamma issues get fixed too. Perhaps you should open your own thread to get feedback, so we don't hijack Juraj's? :D

2016-07-09, 14:02:29
Reply #410

Juraj Talcik

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Short post update:

Was testing some post-production stuff using LUTs, testing out ArionFx (some cool stuff, but I'll stay with VFB+, even though the glare seems more advanced).
Did 3 new pics in my test project (during single Thursday night): (I am updating them on website : http://talcikdemovicova.com/house-ipes/ ). Now I'll move finally into dusk mood with tons of artificial light.

I wish I could post our commercial projects, but we have such NDAs that I would be homeless overnight : / So... Sometimes in September/October.







If you wonder, how I got clean DOF, I didn't :- ) Not even after 2000 passes :- D (Default 16/2 !!!) I simply used denoised 100perc. version overlayed using Z-Depth mask, so only the DOF in the background is denoised, but nothing else.
I often use z-depth for masking exposure, or color balance, but this worked too.

Post-production step: VFB+ (Filmic mapping, Bloom/Glare, LUT), then Photoshop CameraRaw.



Someone asked about the white paint, it's all about the textures. The base I bought from http://www.extremetextures.com/
The rest is 1.4 IOR and 0.7 Specular, because of the wrong fresnel. In fully functioning PBR shader, it would be 1.52 and 1.0. The variance is only though (roughness) glossiness map.




Actually, I have issue with this (and few other) scene, the GI on the ceiling is absurdly noisy. It's not the material, even if I put 128GB diffuse it's still noisy. Rays/sample are only 26 +/- so this isn't complicated project.
Adaptivity does surprisingly almost nothing, Denoising saves the day (plus 2000 passes !! few hours on my...ehm, 200 threads). So who can guess what I do wrong ? Is it too many high-res textures ? Too many rough materials (everything is specular) ?
Or too much use of 3dsMax composite node ?
Something makes this scene awfully hard to clean out. It's always the ceiling in other scenes too. Sometimes it's backwall. I trace it to some kind of GI+Rough specular occurrence. Something about it can't sample well.



I think I'll render the scene with 128RGB diffuse override, and then 128RGB low-glossy override to see behind. It's not the lights, the noise is the same with single Sun&Sky there.






« Last Edit: 2016-07-09, 14:34:36 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2016-07-09, 16:42:38
Reply #411

daniel.reutersward

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Nice new images Juraj! :)

"Or too much use of 3dsMax composite node ?"
I used a composite node with a few rather huge textures for my floor in my "Warehouse Conversion" project, after I removed those the render time were something like 1/4 of the original image.
I donĀ“t remember in detail everything since it was over 1 year ago I did that project. I can of course open up the project and check.

2016-07-09, 16:48:16
Reply #412

agentdark45

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Wow! Great work as always Juraj. I would really like to see a more in depth breakdown of your post processing workflow if you've got the time? The difference in the before/after pictures is night and day. You've managed to tame those burnouts and brighten up the scene whilst keeping a perfect level of contrast and saturation, the colors also didn't change too drastically either.

I've never really looked too much into using LUT's - what's the deal with them?
Vray who?

2016-07-09, 16:53:51
Reply #413

Juraj Talcik

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While I suspect this could be Corona's behavior, if it's 3ds Max I give up :- )

Seriously, in Unreal4, I can use 100 nodes, and it will compile into same-speed shader as zero node 4 texture shader.
I mean, how can, a stupid node, affect actual rendering performance like that ?

It's ridiculous, I can use 100 nodes per shader in UE4, for 100 shaders, and I am afraid to use single map node in 3ds Max. Without composite and various other nodes, I can pretty much go and create 5 times the amount of texture maps I need.

Still, wouldn't that make the render go slower ? Because in this case, it's not going slow, it's going actually rather fast (the rays/sample are quite good, 25 +/-, I have projects where refraction will shoot it into 80+ .
It's just that particular spaces are endlessly noisy (this render starts with 30perc. noise ratio ! My fast projects usually start bellow <10 in first minute). And clean up with 200 +/- passes (default 16/2). But 2000 passes ?

Wow! Great work as always Juraj. I would really like to see a more in depth breakdown of your post processing workflow if you've got the time? The difference in the before/after pictures is night and day. You've managed to tame those burnouts and brighten up the scene whilst keeping a perfect level of contrast and saturation, the colors also didn't change too drastically either.

I've never really looked too much into using LUT's - what's the deal with them?

I plan to publish a blog post on post-production very soon. The LUT's actually don't contribute drastically to the image, they just nicely shift some tones around so you have more natural or interesting look without doing it manually.
Like some particular film emulation might suppres saturation in reds, and lift blues,etc... But some LUTs have a nice (master) contrast curve that can lift midtones and keep crips blacks, so it's almost like tonemapping.
I am getting a helping hand from some very knowledgeable user of this forum :- )

The biggest difference does still make the nice filmic mapping, because it won't destroy the saturation. I can do some gradient exposure overlays, so I only lift exposure inside, I like the contrast in CameraRaw.
« Last Edit: 2016-07-09, 17:01:26 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2016-07-09, 17:00:02
Reply #414

zuliban

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great renders juraj! ,im facing the same problems 1.4 noise level at 1% still is ultra noisy ,in white areas it shows the most, it looks like the adaptivity was created in mind for us to use denoiser but then it looks like oil painting even at 2%. im doing now my final renders in 1.3 im having better results. and im just using  i7 4 core i can't imagine you using 200 cores and still having trouble

2016-07-09, 17:05:12
Reply #415

Juraj Talcik

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great renders juraj! ,im facing the same problems 1.4 noise level at 1% still is ultra noisy ,in white areas it shows the most, it looks like the adaptivity was created in mind for us to use denoiser but then it looks like oil painting even at 2%. im doing now my final renders in 1.3 im having better results. and im just using  i7 4 core i can't imagine you using 200 cores and still having trouble

Now that you mention it, you are correct it's mostly white surfaces. I wouldn't say if the Albedo was wrong, but mine white surfaces never go above 80perc., no 255/255 nonsense.

I am never able to get to 1perc. outside of product shots :- ) But usually everything is rather clean at 1.7 +/- except for those white surfaces. But these pictures have trouble going bellow <2perc., it takes them those 2000 passes to get there.

PS: Not even close to yours though :- ) You inspired me to to stop being lazy and put some grime and scratches here and there...
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2016-07-11, 13:23:40
Reply #416

tolgahan

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Your leaf specular is very good.:) I try to catch this effect in my scene.
Imagination is more important than knowlege

2016-07-11, 13:25:54
Reply #417

Ondra

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While I suspect this could be Corona's behavior, if it's 3ds Max I give up :- )

Seriously, in Unreal4, I can use 100 nodes, and it will compile into same-speed shader as zero node 4 texture shader.
I mean, how can, a stupid node, affect actual rendering performance like that ?

Slow rendering of texmaps is definitely 3dsmax fault. Each texmap is its own microcosmos, with its own naming conventions, internal layout, approaches to optimization (from "ok" to "horrible"), ... But generally it seems nobody bothered to make the nodes render at least reasonably fast. But it should not affect noise level, only speed. So rays/sample and noise/pass should stay the same, rays/second should decrease.


As for the noise: try rendering crop of the region with all CESSENTIAL passes so we can see which one contains the noise
Rendering is magic.
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2016-07-11, 13:29:24
Reply #418

Juraj Talcik

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Yes, this would be two things. 3dsMax nodes slow down the rendering, but I don't yet how much. Does at least 2017 make some positive upgrade in this regard :- ) ? Will have to see.

The noise I will investigate as you suggested, will render out all passes to see.

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2016-07-11, 13:33:41
Reply #419

Ondra

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dunno, I have not looked (and I am not sure they update the provided code samples). I only know they fixed the horribly slow color correction node in 2015. Yet the problem that caused it to be so slow is present in many more nodes (falloff for example, although we have fixed that one internally for corona in 1.4). It was just more prominent in CC because it has many inputs. Generally speaking those problematic nodes get slower when they have many UI parameters - even ones that are not used - for example if you use falloff node in fresnel mode, then just the fact that there are additional parameters in object mode will slow it down...
Rendering is magic.
Private scene uploader | How to get minidumps for crashed/frozen 3ds Max | Sorry for short replies, brief responses = more time to develop Corona ;)