Author Topic: Juraj's Renderings thread  (Read 311814 times)

2013-10-16, 16:31:17
Reply #90

Juraj Talcik

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Hi Juraj,

for the additional light (light bulb), did you use corona light or emission in material?

I am pretty sure it was emission because of time reasons, but I regretted it I think. I think it would be good option to have GI check on!off next to emission slot so it's just visual like in Vray. But I am not sure if this is already too fake/problematic to implement.

Chances are I'm not fully understanding what you're after but regarding a visual bright look without GI couldn't you use Corona Constant MTL? it has both a texture slot and a multiplier.

Thanks :- ) I think that might be something to look at, what I was after, was just the bright look without GI (additional noise). I often never learn about these details because I am somehow not inclined to explore all the options and there isn't really manual for corona yet.
For example, I have yet to find any use of VrayExtraTex for my  type of work, I am just happy living with the most basic stuff.
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2013-10-24, 22:13:24
Reply #91

vkiuru

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Hey man, since you're doing pretty large renders and seem to get pretty noise free results (I know you struggle with this like the rest of us but those renders would not look that clean overnight rendered with my rig) what is your hardware like? I'm in the process of upgrading my 4 year old rig. You might have already answered this elsewhere but I couldn't find it.

Also, did you get satisfactory results with PT+HD eventually? I mean contrast-wise specifically - after much experimenting I still have no idea if those sweet dark PT+PT shadows can be reproduced with HD cache.

2013-10-25, 02:50:09
Reply #92

Juraj Talcik

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Hey man, since you're doing pretty large renders and seem to get pretty noise free results (I know you struggle with this like the rest of us but those renders would not look that clean overnight rendered with my rig) what is your hardware like? I'm in the process of upgrading my 4 year old rig. You might have already answered this elsewhere but I couldn't find it.

Also, did you get satisfactory results with PT+HD eventually? I mean contrast-wise specifically - after much experimenting I still have no idea if those sweet dark PT+PT shadows can be reproduced with HD cache.

I am pretty sure PT+PT gives me much better visual look, the details are just so crisp..and nice. Maybe it's just haptic, and the difference might not actually objectively be that big, but to me it seems like there is.
But I used only PT+HD for every single commercial render I did with Corona for past months, not a single time pt+pt.

Actually I struggle with hi-res, but mostly because the frame-buffer acts strangely at high resolution, it stutters, freezes, and I wonder if it's just framebuffer or if the engine struggles as well, so I stay quite "low" imho :- ) at 4k mostly = 3840x2160px. I dislike lesser resolutions as they don't show the detail I would like, and just look oversimplified/blurry. There's never enough resolution ! :- D I was very stunned when my current client showed me their catalogue photos (that I need to match in quality) and they were photographed by PhaseOne camera with 12 000px in size.... just crazy. Of course they were later downsampled, but the detail and clarity was stunning, it even overshadowed NikonD800 which I find to be landmark of quality for architectural photography (among digital cameras, not taking into account something like medium-format)

I use few 3930k rigs, Asus X79 boards, gtx 670/760 with 4GB ram, 32-64GB ram (Corsair/Kingston 1600 low-profiles), Fractal Cases (R3 and XL versions). I also have one old 2600k but I recently found out its performance is same as my laptop (haswell i7 4800HQ) so this one will go to trash and I will buy 3 another 4930k now. They're very sweet price/performance. But in spring I will build atleast one E5 26xx v2 xeon machine, but at the moment I need quantity as well.

I never use distributed in Corona or Vray but instead render full night on each computer per one picture (10 hours or so atleast per picture no matter what). It's the easiest solution for me and I quite like such primitive ways.

I find buying HW much cheaper then using render-farms (Rebus), I do a lot of animations now and the calculation at Rebus is always like 2000 euros per minute at economy tarif of animation and at that price....I prefer to buy another computer and keep it for next 3 years of its moral life. It's also more user-friendly when working with plugins and latest software versions.

I am super big fan of HW, have been building my own computers for past 10 years, so if you want to discuss anything HW related I am very open to it :- )
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2013-10-25, 09:26:35
Reply #93

vkiuru

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Oh sweet, thanks for the reply!

Yes PT+PT is so very crisp! Depending on the scene I'm finding HD to sometimes produce painfully flat results, especially when zooming up close to tableware, for example. I'd love to be able to use PT+PT solely.

My current CPU is a measly i7 920 which really doesn't cut it anymore, not even close! I haven't put much thought to this yet but so far it looks like something like Xeon E5-1660 could be a way to go perhaps since I could fit two of those into one case. If I got my math right, that would speed up rendering about 5x.. which I hoped to be the solution to switching over to PT+PT at least when not on a strict deadline but oh man.. how many exactly does "few 3930K rigs" mean? If you are rendering 10 hours with those to get the results you want, I might have been overly positive. Anyway I'm of the same opinion about the details, I'd love ~8000 px to be a realistic standard when rendering.. still ways to go I suppose.

Ah D800, there's another investment waiting to happen :D My old D700 is beginning to break up. I've marveled at the results people are getting with the D800, it's amazing. I think it's surprisingly affordable, keeping in mind the D3 (which I thought was a glorified D700 :P ) was still about 10k euros a couple of years ago.

2013-10-25, 09:45:34
Reply #94

Ludvik Koutny

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To get slightly crispier detail, you may try to set filter width of cone filter to 1.333 instead of 1.5 ;)

2013-10-25, 10:16:56
Reply #95

michaltimko

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Or use supersampling 4 (internal res.)
It will render current resolution x 4 and downsample it.
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2013-10-25, 12:20:40
Reply #96

agentdark45

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Hey man, since you're doing pretty large renders and seem to get pretty noise free results (I know you struggle with this like the rest of us but those renders would not look that clean overnight rendered with my rig) what is your hardware like? I'm in the process of upgrading my 4 year old rig. You might have already answered this elsewhere but I couldn't find it.

Also, did you get satisfactory results with PT+HD eventually? I mean contrast-wise specifically - after much experimenting I still have no idea if those sweet dark PT+PT shadows can be reproduced with HD cache.

I am pretty sure PT+PT gives me much better visual look, the details are just so crisp..and nice. Maybe it's just haptic, and the difference might not actually objectively be that big, but to me it seems like there is.
But I used only PT+HD for every single commercial render I did with Corona for past months, not a single time pt+pt.

Actually I struggle with hi-res, but mostly because the frame-buffer acts strangely at high resolution, it stutters, freezes, and I wonder if it's just framebuffer or if the engine struggles as well, so I stay quite "low" imho :- ) at 4k mostly = 3840x2160px. I dislike lesser resolutions as they don't show the detail I would like, and just look oversimplified/blurry. There's never enough resolution ! :- D I was very stunned when my current client showed me their catalogue photos (that I need to match in quality) and they were photographed by PhaseOne camera with 12 000px in size.... just crazy. Of course they were later downsampled, but the detail and clarity was stunning, it even overshadowed NikonD800 which I find to be landmark of quality for architectural photography (among digital cameras, not taking into account something like medium-format)

I use few 3930k rigs, Asus X79 boards, gtx 670/760 with 4GB ram, 32-64GB ram (Corsair/Kingston 1600 low-profiles), Fractal Cases (R3 and XL versions). I also have one old 2600k but I recently found out its performance is same as my laptop (haswell i7 4800HQ) so this one will go to trash and I will buy 3 another 4930k now. They're very sweet price/performance. But in spring I will build atleast one E5 26xx v2 xeon machine, but at the moment I need quantity as well.

I never use distributed in Corona or Vray but instead render full night on each computer per one picture (10 hours or so atleast per picture no matter what). It's the easiest solution for me and I quite like such primitive ways.

I find buying HW much cheaper then using render-farms (Rebus), I do a lot of animations now and the calculation at Rebus is always like 2000 euros per minute at economy tarif of animation and at that price....I prefer to buy another computer and keep it for next 3 years of its moral life. It's also more user-friendly when working with plugins and latest software versions.

I am super big fan of HW, have been building my own computers for past 10 years, so if you want to discuss anything HW related I am very open to it :- )

Damn, I didn't know rebus could work out that expensive! Like you said, might as well buy the most high end machine for that sort of money. I'm currently running an overclocked 3930k @ 4.2ghz with 32gb Corsair 1600hmz ram + GTX 670 in a Fractal Define XLR2 case (the sound proofing definitely helps when cranking the fans). Those v2 xeons are damn pricey though, I'm not sure the price / performance ratio would be worth it tbh? (vs a watercooled 4.8ghz 4930k for example)...however I can't wait for the 8-core Haswell CPU's to drop next year!
Vray who?

2013-10-25, 12:25:22
Reply #97

michaltimko

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Im curious about 6core mainstream CPU for 1150. I was ordering new pc few weeks ago and i took 4470 because of "dead" 2011 socket.
Yea, 4930 is great CPU but i hope that next year something new will arrive for 1150 too.
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2013-10-25, 17:43:52
Reply #98

Juraj Talcik

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uhm, double post..
« Last Edit: 2013-10-25, 18:03:09 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2013-10-25, 18:01:04
Reply #99

Juraj Talcik

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.. how many exactly does "few 3930K rigs" mean? If you are rendering 10 hours with those to get the results you want, I might have been overly positive. Anyway I'm of the same opinion about the details, I'd love ~8000 px to be a realistic standard when rendering.. still ways to go I suppose.

Ah D800, there's another investment waiting to happen :D My old D700 is beginning to break up. I've marveled at the results people are getting with the D800, it's amazing. I think it's surprisingly affordable, keeping in mind the D3 (which I thought was a glorified D700 :P ) was still about 10k euros a couple of years ago.

I have 3 currently. But like I said, that's not to be meant in distributed fashion, but each renders separately over night, so the time is unimportant, because I am sleeping a lot :- ).
I use one, one is used by Veronika, and the third renders while we work. The i7 2600k is no longer used, so I will rebuild it into some small game machine.

I wanted to buy D800 as well ! But now I am on verge because the new sony a7r is out  ! Same 36M chip, no mirrors, produces crisp detail like the D800A version, cost less, is super small and light, works with all lenses (you can use Canon Tilt-shift, not that I have money for that...ever...).



 it looks like something like Xeon E5-1660 could be a way to go perhaps since I could fit two of those into one case.

Sorry, missed this. It's not possible to multi-socket E5-1xxx v1/v2 that's why they're so cheap. There is little to no advantage in getting Xeon 1xxx compared to i7 for our purposes, unless you want to use ECC rams and other small advantages of server platform, because the chip price/performance will be almost the same.


Or use supersampling 4 (internal res.)
It will render current resolution x 4 and downsample it.

1
I tried this once at 4k but the framebuffer acted same way as rendering 8k at 2 internal. Now, I don't remember if I tried 8k with internal res1..
But this stuttering and freezing threw me off a bit, as I wasn't sure if it's just framebuffer having problem updating the picture, or if the freezes correspond to render delays too.


Im curious about 6core mainstream CPU for 1150. I was ordering new pc few weeks ago and i took 4470 because of "dead" 2011 socket.
Yea, 4930 is great CPU but i hope that next year something new will arrive for 1150 too.


I am not sure if that will happen, and Broadwell is big mystery at the moment. It could end up being fully soldered, non-overclocable chip. But it could be anything.
I think haswell-e Octacore will be finally atleast some step. I find the enthusiast platform to be better deal, because if you buy a lot of ram, good gpu and overall, the price expense of 3930k/4930k is not that big imho.

Now I see, you bought the 4770k with idea of upgrading the chip next year ? I haven't even thought of that. But it's true LG2011 used so little of its potential and is already dated..



To get slightly crispier detail, you may try to set filter width of cone filter to 1.333 instead of 1.5 ;)


I actually wanted to try this, but wasn't sure if it won't produce artifacts, because I've read somewhere I shouldn't tinker much with the default :- ) Can I play with other values, like blurring too ?


Damn, I didn't know rebus could work out that expensive! Like you said, might as well buy the most high end machine for that sort of money. I'm currently running an overclocked 3930k @ 4.2ghz with 32gb Corsair 1600hmz ram + GTX 670 in a Fractal Define XLR2 case (the sound proofing definitely helps when cranking the fans). Those v2 xeons are damn pricey though, I'm not sure the price / performance ratio would be worth it tbh? (vs a watercooled 4.8ghz 4930k for example)...however I can't wait for the 8-core Haswell CPU's to drop next year!


4.8ghz long time stable with regular water cooling with 4930k is not much possible. I haven't seen anyone running such setup at overclockers, when 90perc. struggle getting stable 4.5 chip. I find 4.2 sweet spot for rendering 24/24.

And it actually is price viable. For example the "cheap" 10 core at low ghz 2660 v2 at double socket will run you slightly less then two 4930k workstations, with same performance in rendering, but rather poor non-threaded. From there on, it does get expensive, but at most extreme version, you will just pay 1-2k euros on top of quite powerfull machine with more than triple the performance of current overclocked 4930k and you will have it in single-box. The motherboards are no longer so expensive, and good WS can be almost same range as top enthusiast 2011 (like IV ROG,Evga Dark,etc..), you can put regular rams, or unbuffered ECC which cost the same, just  single vga, single for all repeatable components and you only per more for chips, and in return get the luxury of single box without the need for networking and additional care/space.

As for REBUS: I never found the cloud to be so cheap as others consider it. Peter Guthrie mentioned in Venice he paid 70 euros for one picture (and rendered 20 like this). It might not be super expensive, but I have hard time justifying such one-time costs even if it's just small percentage of project budget, I would like to keep that money value.

I am really happy to see so many people running identical setup with Fractal cases :- ). They're the most sexy cases you can buy for such money. At certain times I felt like I wanted to try a bit of luxury and order Lial-Li, but then I read all the reviews how the build quality is lower these days and the alum shell is ever thinner, that Fractal seems like even bigger win-win situation.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-25, 19:37:25 by Juraj_Talcik »
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2013-10-25, 18:31:20
Reply #100

Ludvik Koutny

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Blurring only works for gauss, it will not do anything for tent afaik.

2013-10-25, 18:41:38
Reply #101

Juraj Talcik

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Blurring only works for gauss, it will not do anything for tent afaik.

Do I need to/want to use the filter at all ? Outside of animation I didn't use one for stills in Vray but I didn't give much thought into it here.
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2013-10-25, 19:38:57
Reply #102

Ludvik Koutny

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2013-10-25, 23:46:19
Reply #103

Ondra

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Do I need to/want to use the filter at all ? Outside of animation I didn't use one for stills in Vray but I didn't give much thought into it here.

"No filter" will always give you the best results in the long run (in the sense of getting as close as possible to the real world captured with an ideal real world camera), so you might consider it, if you are willing to invest the rendertime into it.
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2013-10-26, 00:04:23
Reply #104

Juraj Talcik

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Do I need to/want to use the filter at all ? Outside of animation I didn't use one for stills in Vray but I didn't give much thought into it here.

"No filter" will always give you the best results in the long run (in the sense of getting as close as possible to the real world captured with an ideal real world camera), so you might consider it, if you are willing to invest the rendertime into it.

Well now I am intrigued :- ) I am still confused what trouble does arise with this ? just AA ? or noise too ? But now I will definitely give it a go to see
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